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I Probably missed this but...

I Probably missed this but...

2012-07-02 by Mars Bonfire

I must admit I enjoy reading this group, not the least of my enjoyment from the diversity of ideas on how to make pcbs at home.  I am a toner transfer practitioner which suits me fine.  I have done photoresist many moons ago when I had access to the coating chemicals.  

Currently I am working on building a 3D plastic printer (google reprap if curious) and it occurred to me that printing plastic (or a meltable material that would resist etchant) on a pcb would be yet one more way to put down etch resist...any I won't bet someone has not already tried it.  Now you won't catch me trying it but...any thoughts?

Re: I Probably missed this but...

2012-07-02 by tda7000

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mars Bonfire" <mbonfire@...> wrote:
>
> I must admit I enjoy reading this group, not the least of my enjoyment from the diversity of ideas on how to make pcbs at home.  I am a toner transfer practitioner which suits me fine.  I have done photoresist many moons ago when I had access to the coating chemicals.  
> 
> Currently I am working on building a 3D plastic printer (google reprap if curious) and it occurred to me that printing plastic (or a meltable material that would resist etchant) on a pcb would be yet one more way to put down etch resist...any I won't bet someone has not already tried it.  Now you won't catch me trying it but...any thoughts?
>


As an etch resist I imagine it would work, as long as it stuck to the copper well enough. After all, melted plastic is pretty much what toner-transfer is, isn't it?

Although I am not too sure about resolution, I can't see it managing fine-pitch SMD ICs, somehow.

You might get better results replacing the extruder head with a Dalo pen. (save plastic, if nothing else)

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] I Probably missed this but...

2012-07-02 by MIKE DURKIN

How hard would it be to remove once eched?
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-----Original Message-----

From: Mars Bonfire
Sent: 2 Jul 2012 14:41:00 GMT
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] I Probably missed this but...

I must admit I enjoy reading this group, not the least of my enjoyment from the diversity of ideas on how to make pcbs at home.  I am a toner transfer practitioner which suits me fine.  I have done photoresist many moons ago when I had access to the coating chemicals.

Currently I am working on building a 3D plastic printer (google reprap if curious) and it occurred to me that printing plastic (or a meltable material that would resist etchant) on a pcb would be yet one more way to put down etch resist...any I won't bet someone has not already tried it.  Now you won't catch me trying it but...any thoughts?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: I Probably missed this but...

2012-07-03 by Mike

Hello Mars. I am also a part time reprapper, although not as active recently. On the reprap forum I post as the rocket_scientist.

    Yes, it would be VERY nice if we could just stick a board into alignment jigs on a Mendel and lay down a resist mask. The problem is that most current designs use somewhere between 10mil and 5mil design rules. That translates to 0.127mm. I have made some glass nozzles for extruders, so I remember the current size. The 3mm raw material extruders have about 0.5mm orifices, going down to about 0.3mm. I know that some people are using a much finer gauge plastic 'wire', so they may have extruder nozzles down below 0.2mm, but probably not smaller than 0.127mm The next problem is that when you extrude the plastic above the copper surface, assuming the copper is perfectly flat across it's whole length and width to less than a single layer, when you squeeze out the plastic filament, it MUST press hard enough against the copper to bound, and that will make it spread sideways just a bit. SO to reliably make 5mil lines and spaces, you need about a 0.08mm extruder, and stepper motor absolute precision to match. I don't think the current repraps are quite that good yet, but if you tighten one up and use microstepping on the stepper motors, you might be able to achieve it.

    As for removing the resist after etching, if PLA can stand up to the etchant, than we all know that boiling water will remove it, followed by a little acetone to remove any residue.

    The best part, particularly for us old timers still using through hole, would be to mount a small DC motor in place of the extrduer to drill all the holes. And of course the same device can be used to mill out the copper traces for isolation well pcb, but now you are talking about going from 34mil drill bits to 7mil diameter carbide end mills, which are much more fragile and expensive. Still, it is possible to make boards this way, but initially not at full toner transfer resolution.

  I hope this helps.

Mike
(rocket_scientist)




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mars Bonfire" <mbonfire@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I must admit I enjoy reading this group, not the least of my enjoyment from the diversity of ideas on how to make pcbs at home.  I am a toner transfer practitioner which suits me fine.  I have done photoresist many moons ago when I had access to the coating chemicals.  
> 
> Currently I am working on building a 3D plastic printer (google reprap if curious) and it occurred to me that printing plastic (or a meltable material that would resist etchant) on a pcb would be yet one more way to put down etch resist...any I won't bet someone has not already tried it.  Now you won't catch me trying it but...any thoughts?
>

Re: I Probably missed this but...

2012-07-03 by AlienRelics

Managing trace width might be tough. I think my Ultimaker has a 0.3 or 0.4mm head, but of course the track it leaves would be wider as the plastic squeezes out.

On a related matter, I did see on Thingiverse where someone is starting to work on a pick-and-place add-on for the Ultimaker, and someone else made a rotary tool handpiece holder for the Ultimaker to become a drill machine.

I have my concerns about the drill machine conversion, as a plastic extrusion 3D printer isn't made to have high torque.

However, I do plan on making custom equipment cases for my projects.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mars Bonfire" <mbonfire@> wrote:
> >
> > I must admit I enjoy reading this group, not the least of my enjoyment from the diversity of ideas on how to make pcbs at home.  I am a toner transfer practitioner which suits me fine.  I have done photoresist many moons ago when I had access to the coating chemicals.  
> > 
> > Currently I am working on building a 3D plastic printer (google reprap if curious) and it occurred to me that printing plastic (or a meltable material that would resist etchant) on a pcb would be yet one more way to put down etch resist...any I won't bet someone has not already tried it.  Now you won't catch me trying it but...any thoughts?
> >
> 
> 
> As an etch resist I imagine it would work, as long as it stuck to the copper well enough. After all, melted plastic is pretty much what toner-transfer is, isn't it?
> 
> Although I am not too sure about resolution, I can't see it managing fine-pitch SMD ICs, somehow.
> 
> You might get better results replacing the extruder head with a Dalo pen. (save plastic, if nothing else)
>

Re: I Probably missed this but...

2012-07-07 by doc_savage_bronzeguy

If you can print with ABS it will come right off with acetone. Other types of plastic are harder. Polystyrene is hard to get off with acetone and PETE is impossible.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, MIKE DURKIN <Patriot121@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> How hard would it be to remove once eched?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Mars Bonfire
> Sent: 2 Jul 2012 14:41:00 GMT
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] I Probably missed this but...
> 
> I must admit I enjoy reading this group, not the least of my enjoyment from the diversity of ideas on how to make pcbs at home.  I am a toner transfer practitioner which suits me fine.  I have done photoresist many moons ago when I had access to the coating chemicals.
> 
> Currently I am working on building a 3D plastic printer (google reprap if curious) and it occurred to me that printing plastic (or a meltable material that would resist etchant) on a pcb would be yet one more way to put down etch resist...any I won't bet someone has not already tried it.  Now you won't catch me trying it but...any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>