Homebrew PCBs

interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded

i can see the OSHA Inspector having a heart attack as they walk in the door.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fastlink30" <r.poli@...> wrote:

>
> interesting video
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded
>

That is interesting.  Here's the way Tektronix made their boards many years ago. Screen printing was also involved:

http://www.classictek.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=185:tektronix-circuit-boards&catid=88:tektronix-videos&Itemid=80

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fastlink30" <r.poli@...> wrote:

>
> interesting video
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded
>

LOL I know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I could
still find the Bishop Grapics. They had them in scales of 1:1 2:1: 4:1 and
5:1. Then came auto routers and PCB software and the world changed forever.



On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:18 PM, sheldon_mp_cooper <bigbazinga@...m>wrote:

> **
>
>
> That is interesting. Here's the way Tektronix made their boards many years
> ago. Screen printing was also involved:
>
>
> http://www.classictek.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=185:tektronix-circuit-boards&catid=88:tektronix-videos&Itemid=80
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fastlink30" <r.poli@...> wrote:
> >
> > interesting video
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
If you ask me if it can be done. The answer is YES, it can always be done.
The correct questions however are... What will it cost, and how long will
it take?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,  
rmorgan62@... writes:

LOL I  know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I could
still  find the Bishop Grapics<<
ME, too ! ! !    The stock I have is getting too old to  "stick" anymore, 
and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

$$PCB software is not necessary. KiCAD is a free (like no-$ free as well as license-free) schematic capture and PCB layout suite of tools. DesignSpark is a commercial, but $-free tool. There are others, but those are the two I use.

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----

> From: JanRwl@...
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:43:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
> In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,
> rmorgan62@... writes:
> 
> LOL I know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I
> could
> still find the Bishop Grapics<<
> ME, too ! ! ! The stock I have is getting too old to "stick" anymore,
> and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Dude has gloves on, OSHA will be happy with that.

Tony


> i can see the OSHA Inspector having a heart attack as they walk in the
door.

> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fastlink30" <r.poli@...> wrote:
> >
> > interesting video
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-
> WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded

In those days, Osha was just a small town in Wisconsin. ;)

In truth, I thought the attention paid to ensure real safety was quite commendable, considering there were few regulations at that time.  Notice all the fume and particle extraction equipment and safety glasses (as appropriate).  Of course, everyone wasn't wearing a supplied air respirator, lab gown, gloves, and hard hats.  I was a little surprised the inspectors did not wear cotton gloves to keep fingerprints off the products.

John

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tony Smith 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:24 AM
  Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video


    
  Dude has gloves on, OSHA will be happy with that.

  Tony

  > i can see the OSHA Inspector having a heart attack as they walk in the
  door.
  > 
  > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fastlink30" <r.poli@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > interesting video
  > >
  > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-
  > WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recall visiting a Fluke Facility back then and they had a positive
pressure work environment. They had hoods with suction over anything that
produced fumes or dust. So their workers did not have to wear a respirator.
Which becomes difficult if you have to wear it in high heat or for a long
period of time and increased the cost of doing business. Surgical face
masks where worn in some areas though.

And it is very true that OSHA really only got involved when an on the job
accident occurred then or there was some kind of complaint. In our lab we
had all kinds of solvents and other chemicals. Most in either plastic or
glass containers. We wore gloves when we worked with them and used fans to
blow fumes away. If it was really nasty stuff we used respirators. Today
OSHA would have a heart attack.

Oh, and I think that was Oshkosh...

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:39 AM, John Anhalt <janhalt@cox.net> wrote:

> **
>
>
> In those days, Osha was just a small town in Wisconsin. ;)
>
> In truth, I thought the attention paid to ensure real safety was quite
> commendable, considering there were few regulations at that time. Notice
> all the fume and particle extraction equipment and safety glasses (as
> appropriate). Of course, everyone wasn't wearing a supplied air respirator,
> lab gown, gloves, and hard hats. I was a little surprised the inspectors
> did not wear cotton gloves to keep fingerprints off the products.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Smith
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:24 AM
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
>
> Dude has gloves on, OSHA will be happy with that.
>
> Tony
>
> > i can see the OSHA Inspector having a heart attack as they walk in the
> door.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fastlink30" <r.poli@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > interesting video
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-
> > WGaAmpfOU&feature=player_embedded
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>



-- 
If you ask me if it can be done. The answer is YES, it can always be done.
The correct questions however are... What will it cost, and how long will
it take?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

x2 for KiCAD ;) Board has no limit on size or shape, number of nets etc. Only thing limited is you can't have more than 16 layers but this is a more than enough for almost anyone!


When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!

There are many free PCB EDA programs but I like KiCAD the best. Mainly as it's one of the few that has no artificial limits on its capabilities.

That's in contrast to most free ones (like Eagle) that are stripped-down versions of a commercial one. Also, software like this expects you to purchase the full version if you want to sell things made using it.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:

>
> $$PCB software is not necessary. KiCAD is a free (like no-$ free as well as license-free) schematic capture and PCB layout suite of tools. DesignSpark is a commercial, but $-free tool. There are others, but those are the two I use.
> 
> Donald.
> --
> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> ()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> /\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: JanRwl@...
> > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:43:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
> > In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,
> > rmorgan62@... writes:
> > 
> > LOL I know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I
> > could
> > still find the Bishop Grapics<<
> > ME, too ! ! ! The stock I have is getting too old to "stick" anymore,
> > and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> >
>

How do KiCAD libraries compare to Eagle?  Can you import Eagle?  Are there ULP's (like drill-aid.ulp) that help the DIY'er?

I'd like to try it, but I don't want to have to redo >15 years of work.

Also, nothing is completely "free."  Not even Google or religion.  What are the hidden costs?  How is it supported?

John

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tda7000 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 5:43 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video


    
  x2 for KiCAD ;) Board has no limit on size or shape, number of nets etc. Only thing limited is you can't have more than 16 layers but this is a more than enough for almost anyone!

  When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!

  There are many free PCB EDA programs but I like KiCAD the best. Mainly as it's one of the few that has no artificial limits on its capabilities.

  That's in contrast to most free ones (like Eagle) that are stripped-down versions of a commercial one. Also, software like this expects you to purchase the full version if you want to sell things made using it.

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:
  >
  > $$PCB software is not necessary. KiCAD is a free (like no-$ free as well as license-free) schematic capture and PCB layout suite of tools. DesignSpark is a commercial, but $-free tool. There are others, but those are the two I use.
  > 
  > Donald.
  > --
  > *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
  > () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
  > /\ ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
  > 
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: JanRwl@...
  > > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
  > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:43:46 AM
  > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
  > > In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,
  > > rmorgan62@... writes:
  > > 
  > > LOL I know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I
  > > could
  > > still find the Bishop Grapics<<
  > > ME, too ! ! ! The stock I have is getting too old to "stick" anymore,
  > > and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!
  > > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > ------------------------------------
  > > 
  > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
  > > Photos:
  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
  > > 
  > > 
  > >
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 21-Apr-12 02:05, Branko Badrljica wrote:
> KiCAD is _very_ nonintuitive, at least for me. I like much better gEDA+ 
> PCB combo.
> 
> It feels much more like good old DOS Tango. Not terribly sophisticated, 
> but transparent.
> 

Sorry, that bird is very non intuitive for me.
I used to use sMartwork, Tango, Protel (DOS), OrCAD (DOS), many other
Protel incarnations and stopped on Protel 99SE SP6.

I use KiCAD for commercial designs both on Win and Lin OSes.
gEDA?? Tried, abandoned. Too clumsy and non intuitive package. (My
apologies to one of our list members, gEDA geek :-), developer)

-- 
Best Regards,
Zoran A. \u0160\u0107epanovi\u0107
http://zastos.com
+381 63 609-993

-..-
A man needs a good memory after he has lied.

KiCAD is _very_ nonintuitive, at least for me. I like much better gEDA+ 
PCB combo.

It feels much more like good old DOS Tango. Not terribly sophisticated, 
but transparent.







Dne 20. 04. 2012 21:57, pis(e John Anhalt:
>
> How do KiCAD libraries compare to Eagle? Can you import Eagle? Are 
> there ULP's (like drill-aid.ulp) that help the DIY'er?
>
> I'd like to try it, but I don't want to have to redo >15 years of work.
>
> Also, nothing is completely "free." Not even Google or religion. What 
> are the hidden costs? How is it supported?
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tda7000
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 5:43 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
>
> x2 for KiCAD ;) Board has no limit on size or shape, number of nets 
> etc. Only thing limited is you can't have more than 16 layers but this 
> is a more than enough for almost anyone!
>
> When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. 
> No way I would go back to that now!
>
> There are many free PCB EDA programs but I like KiCAD the best. Mainly 
> as it's one of the few that has no artificial limits on its capabilities.
>
> That's in contrast to most free ones (like Eagle) that are 
> stripped-down versions of a commercial one. Also, software like this 
> expects you to purchase the full version if you want to sell things 
> made using it.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, Donald H Locker 
> <dhlocker@...> wrote:
> >
> > $$PCB software is not necessary. KiCAD is a free (like no-$ free as 
> well as license-free) schematic capture and PCB layout suite of tools. 
> DesignSpark is a commercial, but $-free tool. There are others, but 
> those are the two I use.
> >
> > Donald.
> > --
> > *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> > () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> > /\ ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: JanRwl@...
> > > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:43:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
> > > In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,
> > > rmorgan62@... writes:
> > >
> > > LOL I know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I
> > > could
> > > still find the Bishop Grapics<<
> > > ME, too ! ! ! The stock I have is getting too old to "stick" anymore,
> > > and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe that intuitive is only so to those who "get it". And every person's intuitive is different.

I can't "get" Mac, but the Unix (now Linux) command line and command chains were totally intuitive to me. Windoze is half and half - half of it I "get", the other half (about 98% of the admin stuff and 60% of the user-level stuff) is totally obscure and fights me every step of the way.

KiCAD has lots of components, a great Yahoo! support group, and good tools for making your own footprints and symbols. Other tools probably have similar (though different) support environments; I don't know.

So - try gEDA, try KiCAD, try DesignSpark, try Orcad or Protel or DipTrace or whatever - choose one you like, that doesn't get in your way, that works with you, and roll on!

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Zoran A. Scepanovic" <zastos@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:31:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
> On 21-Apr-12 02:05, Branko Badrljica wrote:
> > KiCAD is _very_ nonintuitive, at least for me. I like much better
> > gEDA+
> > PCB combo.
> >
> > It feels much more like good old DOS Tango. Not terribly
> > sophisticated,
> > but transparent.
> >
> 
> Sorry, that bird is very non intuitive for me.
> I used to use sMartwork, Tango, Protel (DOS), OrCAD (DOS), many other
> Protel incarnations and stopped on Protel 99SE SP6.
> 
> I use KiCAD for commercial designs both on Win and Lin OSes.
> gEDA?? Tried, abandoned. Too clumsy and non intuitive package. (My
> apologies to one of our list members, gEDA geek :-), developer)
> 
> --
> Best Regards,
> Zoran A. Šćepanović
> http://zastos.com
> +381 63 609-993
> 
> -..-
> A man needs a good memory after he has lied.
>

RE: 
> When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!

Actually, I think you can. One of the things on my "To Do List"
is to layout a PC board on some over size graph paper and reduce it in the copier to the proper size for toner transfer. I am thinking that I will use a dot grid and leave it in the final transfer so the finished board has reference dots for any after thoughts.

de W8CCW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote:
>
>

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:13:35 -0000, you wrote:

>
>
>RE: 
>> When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!
>
>Actually, I think you can. One of the things on my "To Do List"
>is to layout a PC board on some over size graph paper and reduce it in the copier to the proper size for toner transfer. I am thinking that I will use a dot grid and leave it in the final transfer so the finished board has reference dots for any after thoughts.
>
>de W8CCW
>
>---
If you really want to do it the old way why not get Kicad, gEDA,
Eagle, etc. and print out the symbols you need onto sticky back
label paper and trim to size. Use the printer driver or the package
to scale them. I haven't looked for labels lately, but last year I 
bought some blank, transparent address labels at WalMart.
Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

BTW Keith, I think we are neighbors! I live in Julian NC.

I was thinking further toward Low Tech solutions. I probably will not go to india ink (as used in my engineering drawing class in 1958) but drawing templates might be helpful...
de W8CCW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kabowers@... wrote:

>
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:13:35 -0000, you wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >RE: 
> >> When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!
> >
> >Actually, I think you can. One of the things on my "To Do List"
>> If you really want to do it the old way why not get Kicad, gEDA,
> Eagle, etc. and print out the symbols you need onto sticky back
> label paper and trim to size. Use the printer driver or the package
> to scale them. I haven't looked for labels lately, but last year I 
> bought some blank, transparent address labels at WalMart.
> Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
>

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:10:23 -0000, you wrote:

>
>
>BTW Keith, I think we are neighbors! I live in Julian NC.
>
>I was thinking further toward Low Tech solutions. I probably will not go to india ink (as used in my engineering drawing class in 1958) but drawing templates might be helpful...
>de W8CCW
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kabowers@... wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:13:35 -0000, you wrote:
>>
Glad to see I'm not totally isolated 8=).

Back in the 70's I did some boards by placing the parts on
graph paper 1:1, taping the paper to a board, using a fine
center punch to dimple the copper and then using a Sharpie
to draw in the tracks. IIRC I was using FeCl back then.

I found out the hard way to only use a black Sharpie; the
colored ones didn't resist 8-(

Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@...> wrote:
>
> RE: 
> > When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!
> 
> Actually, I think you can. One of the things on my "To Do List"
> is to layout a PC board on some over size graph paper and reduce it in the copier to the proper size for toner transfer. I am thinking that I will use a dot grid and leave it in the final transfer so the finished board has reference dots for any after thoughts.
> 
> de W8CCW

That is one way that I made boards, although I was using photosensitized PCBs. I'd lay them out at 2x or 4x size. I figured out what exact percentage reductions on a particular copy machine, since 50% or 25% were not exact.

I would do the work on blueline graph paper, the lines were a particular blue designed not to show up on photocopiers.

Why would you want to go back to that?

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

The default included libraries are OK but not as extensive as Eagle's. However there are several nice ones available on the internet from 3rd parties. 

It's also very easy to create your own parts and footprints if you want something special and custom. There are also tools for generating them (mostly ICs) automatically, and yes you can also import Eagle libraries if you want.


However, I would think that if you've been using Eagle for 15 years you should probably stick with it, unless you hate it (but then why use it for 15 years?)

Eagle and KiCAD are rather different from each other - which is probably why I like it since Eagle gives me a headache!


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John Anhalt" <janhalt@...> wrote:

>
> How do KiCAD libraries compare to Eagle?  Can you import Eagle?  Are there ULP's (like drill-aid.ulp) that help the DIY'er?
> 
> I'd like to try it, but I don't want to have to redo >15 years of work.
> 
> Also, nothing is completely "free."  Not even Google or religion.  What are the hidden costs?  How is it supported?
> 
> John
> 
>  
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: tda7000 
>   To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 5:43 PM
>   Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
> 
> 
>     
>   x2 for KiCAD ;) Board has no limit on size or shape, number of nets etc. Only thing limited is you can't have more than 16 layers but this is a more than enough for almost anyone!
> 
>   When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!
> 
>   There are many free PCB EDA programs but I like KiCAD the best. Mainly as it's one of the few that has no artificial limits on its capabilities.
> 
>   That's in contrast to most free ones (like Eagle) that are stripped-down versions of a commercial one. Also, software like this expects you to purchase the full version if you want to sell things made using it.
> 
>   --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@> wrote:
>   >
>   > $$PCB software is not necessary. KiCAD is a free (like no-$ free as well as license-free) schematic capture and PCB layout suite of tools. DesignSpark is a commercial, but $-free tool. There are others, but those are the two I use.
>   > 
>   > Donald.
>   > --
>   > *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
>   > () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
>   > /\ ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > From: JanRwl@
>   > > To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>   > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:43:46 AM
>   > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
>   > > In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,
>   > > rmorgan62@ writes:
>   > > 
>   > > LOL I know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I
>   > > could
>   > > still find the Bishop Grapics<<
>   > > ME, too ! ! ! The stock I have is getting too old to "stick" anymore,
>   > > and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!
>   > > 
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > ------------------------------------
>   > > 
>   > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>   > > Photos:
>   > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > >
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Certainly sounds doable but I probably won't be trying it...

I made only a few boards back then and dropped most of it for some years - When I went back to electronics and wanted a PCB I went straight to EDA software and never looked back.

As you no doubt know, there are many advantages with EDA software, most of which can help from making silly annoying mistakes, and of course as with most software you get undo\redo and the ability to change anything as much as you like - that would be a big headache if you did it by hand.

That said, I do quite like the look of the curvy, flowing style of the layouts from the old methods.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@> wrote:
> >
> > RE: 
> > > When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper. No way I would go back to that now!
> > 
> > Actually, I think you can. One of the things on my "To Do List"
> > is to layout a PC board on some over size graph paper and reduce it in the copier to the proper size for toner transfer. I am thinking that I will use a dot grid and leave it in the final transfer so the finished board has reference dots for any after thoughts.
> > 
> > de W8CCW
> 
> That is one way that I made boards, although I was using photosensitized PCBs. I'd lay them out at 2x or 4x size. I figured out what exact percentage reductions on a particular copy machine, since 50% or 25% were not exact.
> 
> I would do the work on blueline graph paper, the lines were a particular blue designed not to show up on photocopiers.
> 
> Why would you want to go back to that?
> 
> Steve Greenfield AE7HD
>

Take a look at topological routers for curvy lines :)

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
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----- Original Message -----

> From: "tda7000" <Tda7000@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 9:55:40 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: pcb video
> Certainly sounds doable but I probably won't be trying it...
> 
> I made only a few boards back then and dropped most of it for some
> years - When I went back to electronics and wanted a PCB I went
> straight to EDA software and never looked back.
> 
> As you no doubt know, there are many advantages with EDA software,
> most of which can help from making silly annoying mistakes, and of
> course as with most software you get undo\redo and the ability to
> change anything as much as you like - that would be a big headache if
> you did it by hand.
> 
> That said, I do quite like the look of the curvy, flowing style of the
> layouts from the old methods.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jferrell13@> wrote:
> > >
> > > RE:
> > > > When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph
> > > > paper. No way I would go back to that now!
> > >
> > > Actually, I think you can. One of the things on my "To Do List"
> > > is to layout a PC board on some over size graph paper and reduce
> > > it in the copier to the proper size for toner transfer. I am
> > > thinking that I will use a dot grid and leave it in the final
> > > transfer so the finished board has reference dots for any after
> > > thoughts.
> > >
> > > de W8CCW
> >
> > That is one way that I made boards, although I was using
> > photosensitized PCBs. I'd lay them out at 2x or 4x size. I figured
> > out what exact percentage reductions on a particular copy machine,
> > since 50% or 25% were not exact.
> >
> > I would do the work on blueline graph paper, the lines were a
> > particular blue designed not to show up on photocopiers.
> >
> > Why would you want to go back to that?
> >
> > Steve Greenfield AE7HD
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Yea,
I did quite a few board designs with Bishop Graphics. Initially did the black crape tape then moved on the the ruby tape.  Still got a box of the old stuff, but the adhesive is all dead.   I had a fairly good setup, consisting of a light table, precision .050 grid film with pin tabs for aligning the layers.  Would do a pad only layer than tape up a top and bottom, trace only sheets.  I think it cost me about $12 to get it reduced 2:1 with a negative for each side.  I was using positive resist so I would make my own contact copies for working film.

The hardest part was getting the photo house to make sure they got the taped masters oriented correctly on the camera so the final film emulsion would be against the board.   I finally had to put a big note across the master tapeup with the words "THIS SIDE TOWARDS LENSE" 

LOL  Oh, so many hours so long ago.  Now everyting is so small and my eyes so bad.

Craig

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, JanRwl@... wrote:

>
> 
> 
> In a message dated 4/19/2012 17:01:30 Central Daylight Time,  
> rmorgan62@... writes:
> 
> LOL I  know I may be showing my age but I've had to do this. I wish I could
> still  find the Bishop Grapics<<
> ME, too ! ! !    The stock I have is getting too old to  "stick" anymore, 
> and I do NOT have $$ PCB software!
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi All
 
> When I was a kid I started out drawing PCBs by hand with graph paper.  No 
way I would go back to that now!

I still use that method having got used to it over the years on both small  
and large boards and having developed a habit of drawing the circuit  
diagram in a logical manner the layout mostly falls out from that. Also I do not  
like leaving critical RF layouts to an auto-router.
 
Diptrace does have a facility for laying out PCBs manually when viewed from 
 the solder side so that aligns nicely with the graph paper method that I 
am used  to.
 
Regards

Bob

Bob F Burns
C Eng,  FIET, MSE
Amateur Radio Callsign: G3OOU
Registered RSGB  Instructor
G-QRP Member No: 6907; Zone: 14, QRA: IO91WH; WAB:  TQ25
Secretary of Crystal Palace Radio & Electronics Club: _www.g3oou.co.uk_ 
(http://www.g3oou.co.uk/) 
Technical web site: _www.qsl.net/g3oou_ (http://www.qsl.net/g3oou) 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]