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DIY CNC pcb drilling

DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by DJ Delorie

Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...

  DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
  www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU

The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
table... many steps.

controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/  (including close-ups of the drilled board)

I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
bits :-)

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by William Laakkonen

Nice work DJ,

I can appreciate winding a toroidial transformer such as that on your
photos. I guess you mounted it on a PCB assembly to make rework easier?

Best regards,

Bill Laakkonen

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:55 PM, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>
> DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>
> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
> table... many steps.
>
> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled
> board)
>
> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
> bits :-)
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by DJ Delorie

William Laakkonen <worldradiolabs@...> writes:
> I can appreciate winding a toroidial transformer such as that on your
> photos. I guess you mounted it on a PCB assembly to make rework easier?

Well, each "winding" was 2-5 individual wires wound in parallel.  The
little PCB combines those into single pins with a known footprint so I
could design it into a power supply.  Otherwise, it would be too easy to
lose track of which of the 40 or so ends sticking out are which.

I mean, imagine trying to solder this to a big pcb:

    www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/transformer/img_2429.html

I did end up reworking it, though.  The small windings for the control
supplies (15v) needed another loop (they only have 8 loops) but at least
they were on the outside (I figured those might need tweaking).  I was
able to make the changes without taking it off the little pcb.

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by Boman33

Nice work DJ!

Commercial drillers are using scary federate drilling several holes per
second.

I have been using one of the little turbines too for PCB drilling.  They
work very well, Harbor Freight also usually have them for less than $20.

 

On your link below it talks about steppers, I did not see anything about the
brushless DC motor controller.

Bertho

===============================
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DJ Delorie  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 20:56

Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...

DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU

The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I had to
make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the table... many
steps.

controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled
board)

I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
bits :-)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by Kerry Wentworth

Very nice!  Mine is a bit different (cruder).  I used an industrial XY 
stage, 6"x6" with stepper motors, mounted on the end of my Sherline 
mill.  A homebrew Z stage drives a Dremel tool up and down.  I have not 
yet optimized for speed, as I have a limited number of bits on hand.  I 
use a PIC16F876 to accept (a subset of) CNC commands and drive the 
steppers.  A DOS laptop reads the Excellon files and generates CNC 
commands.  It also has a jog mode that allows finding the corners of the 
board and rotates the coordinates to compensate for misalignment of the 
transferred artwork relative to the axes.

I did all of the hardware and software myself.

Kerry


DJ Delorie wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>
>   DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
>   www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>
> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
> table... many steps.
>
> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/  (including close-ups of the drilled board)
>
> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
> bits :-)
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by Spencer

I was looking at getting this for my PCB drilling. 

http://www.shapeoko.com/


________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 From: Kerry Wentworth <kwentworth@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling
 

  
Very nice!  Mine is a bit different (cruder).  I used an industrial XY 
stage, 6"x6" with stepper motors, mounted on the end of my Sherline 
mill.  A homebrew Z stage drives a Dremel tool up and down.  I have not 
yet optimized for speed, as I have a limited number of bits on hand.  I 
use a PIC16F876 to accept (a subset of) CNC commands and drive the 
steppers.  A DOS laptop reads the Excellon files and generates CNC 
commands.  It also has a jog mode that allows finding the corners of the 
board and rotates the coordinates to compensate for misalignment of the 
transferred artwork relative to the axes.

I did all of the hardware and software myself.

Kerry

DJ Delorie wrote:
> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>
>   DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
>   www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>
> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
> table... many steps.
>
> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled board)
>
> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
> bits :-)
>
>
>
>
> 


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by Kerry Wentworth

Looks very nice, but large and expensive for my purposes.  I was given 
the XY stage, and the rest was built from parts on hand.  The laptop 
cost me $8.  I don't do enough boards to justify any big expenditures, 
although I DID buy a $25 laminator from MyBinding.com.

Kerry


Spencer wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I was looking at getting this for my PCB drilling. 
>
> http://www.shapeoko.com/
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Kerry Wentworth <kwentworth@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling
>  
>
>   
> Very nice!  Mine is a bit different (cruder).  I used an industrial XY 
> stage, 6"x6" with stepper motors, mounted on the end of my Sherline 
> mill.  A homebrew Z stage drives a Dremel tool up and down.  I have not 
> yet optimized for speed, as I have a limited number of bits on hand.  I 
> use a PIC16F876 to accept (a subset of) CNC commands and drive the 
> steppers.  A DOS laptop reads the Excellon files and generates CNC 
> commands.  It also has a jog mode that allows finding the corners of the 
> board and rotates the coordinates to compensate for misalignment of the 
> transferred artwork relative to the axes.
>
> I did all of the hardware and software myself.
>
> Kerry
>
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>   
>> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>>
>>   DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
>>   www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>>
>> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
>> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
>> table... many steps.
>>
>> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
>> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled board)
>>
>> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
>> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
>> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
>> bits :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-03 by William Laakkonen

>
>
>
> I mean, imagine trying to solder this to a big pcb:
>
> www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/transformer/img_2429.html
>
>
You would have less lead inductance and perhaps reduce EMI via
unintentional radiators if you did solder direct, but I understand the
motivation.

When it comes to EMI, everything's a dipole- whether desired or not.
http://www.hottconsultants.com/tips.html has a nice series "dipoles for
dummies". I found it a helpful reference.

Best regards,

Bill



> I did end up reworking it, though. The small windings for the control
> supplies (15v) needed another loop (they only have 8 loops) but at least
> they were on the outside (I figured those might need tweaking). I was
> able to make the changes without taking it off the little pcb.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-04 by Rodney Jackson

Hello Kerry,

I am wondering if you might put your talents in a section for know nothings
like myself.?

As long as you are not in the business of actually manufacturing and selling
these types of things, there should not be a problem that I am able to see.

Of course, I fail to see a lot at the best of times.. J

I personally would love a CNC machine.  There are cheap ones on sale
(hardware only) that I might afford.  Then there is the addition of software
and 

stepper motors Etc..  This completely blows my budget out of the water.

Thanks Kerry,

 

Rod
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kerry Wentworth
Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2012 10:40 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

 

  

Very nice! Mine is a bit different (cruder). I used an industrial XY 
stage, 6"x6" with stepper motors, mounted on the end of my Sherline 
mill. A homebrew Z stage drives a Dremel tool up and down. I have not 
yet optimized for speed, as I have a limited number of bits on hand. I 
use a PIC16F876 to accept (a subset of) CNC commands and drive the 
steppers. A DOS laptop reads the Excellon files and generates CNC 
commands. It also has a jog mode that allows finding the corners of the 
board and rotates the coordinates to compensate for misalignment of the 
transferred artwork relative to the axes.

I did all of the hardware and software myself.

Kerry

DJ Delorie wrote:
> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>
> DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>
> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
> table... many steps.
>
> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled
board)
>
> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
> bits :-)
>
>
>
>
> 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-04 by Kerry Wentworth

Hi Rod,

Software and steppers should not hold you back.  I used some surplus 
steppers that I had bought surplus for ~$5 each.  And there is software 
out there (for Linux, for example) that is freely available.  That's 
just not the route I decided to take.

I happened to have an XY table, steppers, stepper drivers (Allegro, now 
obsolete), PICs, development tools (programmer, C compiler. etc.), lathe 
and milling machine, etc.  Cobbled together, it add up to a PCB driller. 

It does NOT add up to a CNC machine.  No arcs, no tool compensation, 
only interpolates X and Y, etc.  It does have feed rate, different 
coordinate systems, relative moves and anything else I thought might be 
needed for drilling.  It only has 1 acceleration curve.  Drilling is 
done by a Z down and a Z up, no 'peck' drilling command.

Since nobody else can cobble together exactly what I have, I don't think 
it makes sense to present it like a project.  If someone wants to cobble 
their own, I can share some design experience, software routines, etc.

Kerry



Rodney Jackson wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hello Kerry,
>
> I am wondering if you might put your talents in a section for know nothings
> like myself.?
>
> As long as you are not in the business of actually manufacturing and selling
> these types of things, there should not be a problem that I am able to see.
>
> Of course, I fail to see a lot at the best of times.. J
>
> I personally would love a CNC machine.  There are cheap ones on sale
> (hardware only) that I might afford.  Then there is the addition of software
> and 
>
> stepper motors Etc..  This completely blows my budget out of the water.
>
> Thanks Kerry,
>
>  
>
> Rod
>
>  
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Kerry Wentworth
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2012 10:40 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling
>
>  
>
>   
>
> Very nice! Mine is a bit different (cruder). I used an industrial XY 
> stage, 6"x6" with stepper motors, mounted on the end of my Sherline 
> mill. A homebrew Z stage drives a Dremel tool up and down. I have not 
> yet optimized for speed, as I have a limited number of bits on hand. I 
> use a PIC16F876 to accept (a subset of) CNC commands and drive the 
> steppers. A DOS laptop reads the Excellon files and generates CNC 
> commands. It also has a jog mode that allows finding the corners of the 
> board and rotates the coordinates to compensate for misalignment of the 
> transferred artwork relative to the axes.
>
> I did all of the hardware and software myself.
>
> Kerry
>
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>   
>> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>>
>> DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>>
>> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
>> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
>> table... many steps.
>>
>> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
>> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled
>>     
> board)
>   
>> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
>> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
>> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
>> bits :-)
>>
>>     
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-04 by DJ Delorie

"Boman33" <boman33@...> writes:
> On your link below it talks about steppers, I did not see anything
> about the brushless DC motor controller.

I don't own any steppers, I don't know why any of my links would talk
about them.  The BLDC link talks about the brushless DC motor
controller; it *emulates* a stepper by accepting standard step+direction
signals like stepper-based CNC machines use.  The firmware counts the
step pulses and rotates the servo motor to the correct position.

> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-04 by Boman33

Thanks DJ,

I missed the "emulates" and saw pulses and direction.

Nice work!!

Bertho

===============================
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DJ Delorie    Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 19:03

"Boman33" <boman33@... <mailto:boman33%40vinland.com> > writes:
> On your link below it talks about steppers, I did not see anything
> about the brushless DC motor controller.

I don't own any steppers, I don't know why any of my links would talk
about them. The BLDC link talks about the brushless DC motor
controller; it *emulates* a stepper by accepting standard step+direction
signals like stepper-based CNC machines use. The firmware counts the
step pulses and rotates the servo motor to the correct position.

> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-04 by Rodney Jackson

Thank you Kerry,

All points noted, thank you for your reply.  I will have to learn the magic
of 'C language' and things might seem clearer then.

Again, thank you.

 

Rod
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kerry Wentworth
Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2012 9:56 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling

 

  

Hi Rod,

Software and steppers should not hold you back. I used some surplus 
steppers that I had bought surplus for ~$5 each. And there is software 
out there (for Linux, for example) that is freely available. That's 
just not the route I decided to take.

I happened to have an XY table, steppers, stepper drivers (Allegro, now 
obsolete), PICs, development tools (programmer, C compiler. etc.), lathe 
and milling machine, etc. Cobbled together, it add up to a PCB driller. 

It does NOT add up to a CNC machine. No arcs, no tool compensation, 
only interpolates X and Y, etc. It does have feed rate, different 
coordinate systems, relative moves and anything else I thought might be 
needed for drilling. It only has 1 acceleration curve. Drilling is 
done by a Z down and a Z up, no 'peck' drilling command.

Since nobody else can cobble together exactly what I have, I don't think 
it makes sense to present it like a project. If someone wants to cobble 
their own, I can share some design experience, software routines, etc.

Kerry

Rodney Jackson wrote:
> Hello Kerry,
>
> I am wondering if you might put your talents in a section for know
nothings
> like myself.?
>
> As long as you are not in the business of actually manufacturing and
selling
> these types of things, there should not be a problem that I am able to
see.
>
> Of course, I fail to see a lot at the best of times.. J
>
> I personally would love a CNC machine. There are cheap ones on sale
> (hardware only) that I might afford. Then there is the addition of
software
> and 
>
> stepper motors Etc.. This completely blows my budget out of the water.
>
> Thanks Kerry,
>
> 
>
> Rod
>
> 
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On Behalf Of Kerry Wentworth
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2012 10:40 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY CNC pcb drilling
>
> 
>
> 
>
> Very nice! Mine is a bit different (cruder). I used an industrial XY 
> stage, 6"x6" with stepper motors, mounted on the end of my Sherline 
> mill. A homebrew Z stage drives a Dremel tool up and down. I have not 
> yet optimized for speed, as I have a limited number of bits on hand. I 
> use a PIC16F876 to accept (a subset of) CNC commands and drive the 
> steppers. A DOS laptop reads the Excellon files and generates CNC 
> commands. It also has a jog mode that allows finding the corners of the 
> board and rotates the coordinates to compensate for misalignment of the 
> transferred artwork relative to the axes.
>
> I did all of the hardware and software myself.
>
> Kerry
>
> DJ Delorie wrote:
> 
>> Been working on this project for a long time, finally got some results...
>>
>> DIY CNC 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
>>
>> The CNC machine uses three brushless DC motors instead of steppers, I
>> had to make my own controller boards, write the firmware, build the
>> table... many steps.
>>
>> controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
>> photos: www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/ (including close-ups of the drilled
>> 
> board)
> 
>> I have an excellon-to-gcode script for drills if anyone's interested,
>> although there's some new features I still want to try, and I want to
>> see how fast I can get the drilling cycle to go without breaking any
>> bits :-)
>>
>> 
>
> 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-11 by Andrew

DJ, what advantages do the BDC motors have over steppers? And what mechanism did you use for feedback to determine when to start and stop?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> "Boman33" <boman33@...> writes:
> > On your link below it talks about steppers, I did not see anything
> > about the brushless DC motor controller.
> 
> I don't own any steppers, I don't know why any of my links would talk
> about them.  The BLDC link talks about the brushless DC motor
> controller; it *emulates* a stepper by accepting standard step+direction
> signals like stepper-based CNC machines use.  The firmware counts the
> step pulses and rotates the servo motor to the correct position.
> 
> > controller page: www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY CNC pcb drilling

2012-04-11 by DJ Delorie

"Andrew" <a_wake@...> writes:
> DJ, what advantages do the BLDC motors have over steppers? And what
> mechanism did you use for feedback to determine when to start and
> stop?

In this case, "they were free" :-)

But in general, BLDC motors maintain their rated torque at much higher
RPM than steppers, and are typically used with encoders so the
controller always knows where the shaft *is* (and with 10-20x the
precision of steppers too), not just where it *should be*.  The down
side is, they tend to be more expensive, larger, and harder to control
than steppers.

The CAM software knows how fast the motors can start and stop, and their
top speed, and controls them accordingly so the controllers can keep up.

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