Homebrew PCBs

I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar. 
Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
photo paper. Any one else with sug? 
And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
problems, when dealing with such small traces.
Thanks,
Mark

Probably best to follow Pulsar's advise and use a Canon based printer.  Brother DOES NOT work due to the fact their toner chemistry is different.  I have found that copiers then to work better than printers, but you can get away with one of the cheap $100 Canon printers...try Amazon!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RL" <rlrc2003@...> wrote:

>
> I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar. 
> Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> photo paper. Any one else with sug? 
> And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> Thanks,
> Mark
>

Mark, I had better luck with the photosensitive process than the toner
transfer process. I tried all kinds of paper from magazine paper, HP
Presentation paper, to photo paper, without much luck.

What is the size of your traces? I could get 15mil with photoetching, which
I could not with toner transfer process.

I want to try the cnc approach some time. What machine did you use?

Joe

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, RL <rlrc2003@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar.
> Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> photo paper. Any one else with sug?
> And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:22:15 -0000, you wrote:

>I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar. 
>Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
>of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
>I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
>photo paper. Any one else with sug? 

I use an HP 2200D, in single sided mode, direct feedthrough (no
bends).  Set the toner density at the highest possible (5).  Still has
problems with large area fills, but works well enough.


>And any other tips on this product would be helpful.

Dunk the paper into water while still warm, do not let it dry out
since it may bubble and lift the traces.  Hotter is better but too hot
can be a problem, test runs are good.  Depending on the laminator you
use, you may want to run this through up to 8 times depending on the
board.

Harvey

>I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
>problems, when dealing with such small traces.
>Thanks,
>Mark
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Joe, I think your results are more the exception than the rule.  I have been able to get down to 8mil traces with the Pulsar paper, and just as good with the HP Presentation paper.

The problem with the photosensitive steps is there are just too many chemicals and steps involved for it to be quick.

And, I agree with Harvey, run the board and paper sandwich through the laminator several (8-12) times then immediately into a warm water bath to release the paper from the toner.

The only real problem I had with the Pulsar was the stretch...I use a cnc mill to drill holes before laminating and the holes don't line up so well.  Luckily the stretch is mostly in the long direction of the paper.




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, joe M <joe9mail@...> wrote:

>
> Mark, I had better luck with the photosensitive process than the toner
> transfer process. I tried all kinds of paper from magazine paper, HP
> Presentation paper, to photo paper, without much luck.
> 
> What is the size of your traces? I could get 15mil with photoetching, which
> I could not with toner transfer process.
> 
> I want to try the cnc approach some time. What machine did you use?
> 
> Joe
> 
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, RL <rlrc2003@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar.
> > Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> > of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> > photo paper. Any one else with sug?
> > And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> > I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> > problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 03:20:30 -0000, you wrote:

>Joe, I think your results are more the exception than the rule.  I have been able to get down to 8mil traces with the Pulsar paper, and just as good with the HP Presentation paper.
>
>The problem with the photosensitive steps is there are just too many chemicals and steps involved for it to be quick.
>
>And, I agree with Harvey, run the board and paper sandwich through the laminator several (8-12) times then immediately into a warm water bath to release the paper from the toner.
>
>The only real problem I had with the Pulsar was the stretch...I use a cnc mill to drill holes before laminating and the holes don't line up so well.  Luckily the stretch is mostly in the long direction of the paper.

One reason why I have not tried CNC drilling and then TT transfer.
When I do 0.5mm 100 lead VQFP packages and small vias, any
misalignment, top and bottom, let alone holes in the vias, is a bit
too much.

Harvey

>
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, joe M <joe9mail@...> wrote:
>>
>> Mark, I had better luck with the photosensitive process than the toner
>> transfer process. I tried all kinds of paper from magazine paper, HP
>> Presentation paper, to photo paper, without much luck.
>> 
>> What is the size of your traces? I could get 15mil with photoetching, which
>> I could not with toner transfer process.
>> 
>> I want to try the cnc approach some time. What machine did you use?
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, RL <rlrc2003@...> wrote:
>> 
>> > **
>> >
>> >
>> > I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar.
>> > Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
>> > of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
>> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
>> > photo paper. Any one else with sug?
>> > And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
>> > I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
>> > problems, when dealing with such small traces.
>> > Thanks,
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>

On 19/02/2012 03:20, Terry wrote:
> Joe, I think your results are more the exception than the rule. I have
> been able to get down to 8mil traces with the Pulsar paper, and just as
> good with the HP Presentation paper.
>
> The problem with the photosensitive steps is there are just too many
> chemicals and steps involved for it to be quick.


All that is required is some developer (I use NaOH), in addition to the 
etchant. Hardly "too many chemicals"!

It takes me something like 20 minutes to make a board using photo-etch.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

> I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> photo paper. 

Hi Mark,

I am that someone! Just for interest, I tried using that Samsung ML-1860 laser to print a small piece of Pulsar paper stuck to a regular paper carrier. It was very good indeed - once I remembered to set the paper to "thick".

I didn't proceed any further but I could see that it ought to give good results to about 10mil.

It impressed me enough to think about using my old stock of Pulsar paper to make iron on silk screens.

Regards,

Bob

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:45:39 +0000, you wrote:

>On 19/02/2012 03:20, Terry wrote:
>> Joe, I think your results are more the exception than the rule. I have
>> been able to get down to 8mil traces with the Pulsar paper, and just as
>> good with the HP Presentation paper.
>>
>> The problem with the photosensitive steps is there are just too many
>> chemicals and steps involved for it to be quick.
>
>
>All that is required is some developer (I use NaOH), in addition to the 
>etchant. Hardly "too many chemicals"!
>
>It takes me something like 20 minutes to make a board using photo-etch.

For the quantities of board I use, if I had access to good
photosensitive board in the sizes I need, I'd use it.  That is, if it
were cheap enough.  I can get (locally) single sided 0.23 inch PCB
which is ideal for making double sided boards.  For some reason, I
seem to make double sided more than single sided.  

My problems in photoetch are not the developer, nor the exposure (made
a vacuum frame and use an enlarger timer), but the density of the
positive.  Neither the laser nor the inkjet seem to do quite a good
enough job so far.  Exposure therefore is tricky.  I do miss kodalith
a lot.

I don't miss the tape, though.

I could even do negative photoresist (I think) by going to persulfate
etchant (see previous posts) and tin/lead plating before the etching,
which would work for the negative photoresist process.  (it's what the
old PC board houses used to use, and perhaps still do).

Right now, with CuCl etchant, a 4x6 board will cost me about 4.50 to
do, and with persulfate, perhaps 6 dollars.

4x6 double sided photosensitized is way more expensive than that, and
there's no "redo"....

Not unless I invest in trying to put my own film resist on.

Harvey

>
>Leon

On 19/02/2012 15:57, Harvey White wrote:

>
> For the quantities of board I use, if I had access to good
> photosensitive board in the sizes I need, I'd use it. That is, if it
> were cheap enough. I can get (locally) single sided 0.23 inch PCB
> which is ideal for making double sided boards. For some reason, I
> seem to make double sided more than single sided.
>

Nearly all mine are single-sided.

> My problems in photoetch are not the developer, nor the exposure (made
> a vacuum frame and use an enlarger timer), but the density of the
> positive. Neither the laser nor the inkjet seem to do quite a good
> enough job so far. Exposure therefore is tricky. I do miss kodalith
> a lot.

As I've said several times, I get excellent positive transparencies with 
a cheap HP 9540 inkjet printer and JetStar Premium film.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:11:21 +0000, you wrote:

>On 19/02/2012 15:57, Harvey White wrote:
>
>>
>> For the quantities of board I use, if I had access to good
>> photosensitive board in the sizes I need, I'd use it. That is, if it
>> were cheap enough. I can get (locally) single sided 0.23 inch PCB
>> which is ideal for making double sided boards. For some reason, I
>> seem to make double sided more than single sided.
>>
>
>Nearly all mine are single-sided.

I do things like LCD display drivers, microprocessor boards, stepper
driver boards, sensor interface boards, etc.  Not a lot of analog
wiring, mostly digital.

I dislike jumpers, so the effort of making a separate layer is often
worth the added step.  Since my main techniques involve thin board
epoxied together to make a dual sided board, I effectively make two
boards to get one, but I can remake the "bad" one easily.

Last run was 10 board sides, two stepper motor drivers, breakout board
for a PCB drill, back panel for same, and a power distribution board.
You pays your money.... etc.



>
>> My problems in photoetch are not the developer, nor the exposure (made
>> a vacuum frame and use an enlarger timer), but the density of the
>> positive. Neither the laser nor the inkjet seem to do quite a good
>> enough job so far. Exposure therefore is tricky. I do miss kodalith
>> a lot.
>
>As I've said several times, I get excellent positive transparencies with 
>a cheap HP 9540 inkjet printer and JetStar Premium film.

I'll have to try that, and see if JetStar Premium is available here.
That's when I start in with the photoetch, of course.

Thanks.

Harvey

>
>Leon

Hello,

With the "JetStar Premium film", I do not have to buy photosensitive
boards? Can I make the photosensitive boards from normal boards using this?
The photo pcb's are pretty expensive. Would be cool if this is a cheaper
option.

Thanks
Joe

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Harvey White <madyn@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:11:21 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >On 19/02/2012 15:57, Harvey White wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> For the quantities of board I use, if I had access to good
> >> photosensitive board in the sizes I need, I'd use it. That is, if it
> >> were cheap enough. I can get (locally) single sided 0.23 inch PCB
> >> which is ideal for making double sided boards. For some reason, I
> >> seem to make double sided more than single sided.
> >>
> >
> >Nearly all mine are single-sided.
>
> I do things like LCD display drivers, microprocessor boards, stepper
> driver boards, sensor interface boards, etc. Not a lot of analog
> wiring, mostly digital.
>
> I dislike jumpers, so the effort of making a separate layer is often
> worth the added step. Since my main techniques involve thin board
> epoxied together to make a dual sided board, I effectively make two
> boards to get one, but I can remake the "bad" one easily.
>
> Last run was 10 board sides, two stepper motor drivers, breakout board
> for a PCB drill, back panel for same, and a power distribution board.
> You pays your money.... etc.
>
> >
> >> My problems in photoetch are not the developer, nor the exposure (made
> >> a vacuum frame and use an enlarger timer), but the density of the
> >> positive. Neither the laser nor the inkjet seem to do quite a good
> >> enough job so far. Exposure therefore is tricky. I do miss kodalith
> >> a lot.
> >
> >As I've said several times, I get excellent positive transparencies with
> >a cheap HP 9540 inkjet printer and JetStar Premium film.
>
> I'll have to try that, and see if JetStar Premium is available here.
> That's when I start in with the photoetch, of course.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Harvey
>
> >
> >Leon
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 19/02/2012 18:00, Harvey White wrote:

>
> I dislike jumpers, so the effort of making a separate layer is often
> worth the added step. Since my main techniques involve thin board
> epoxied together to make a dual sided board, I effectively make two
> boards to get one, but I can remake the "bad" one easily.
>
> Last run was 10 board sides, two stepper motor drivers, breakout board
> for a PCB drill, back panel for same, and a power distribution board.
> You pays your money.... etc.

I can usually design boards so that very few jumpers are required. With 
double-sided boards soldering all the links through the vias is worse 
than a few jumpers! :)

>  >As I've said several times, I get excellent positive transparencies with
>  >a cheap HP 9540 inkjet printer and JetStar Premium film.
>
> I'll have to try that, and see if JetStar Premium is available here.
> That's when I start in with the photoetch, of course.

Farnell stocks it, but only in the A3 size, for some strange reason. 
Since I cut it to size it doesn't matter. They stock the ordinary 
JetStar (I used to use that with a lower-res Epson inkjet) in A4. Mega 
Electronics will probably send you a sample sheet if you ask them 
nicely, they sent me one. Otherwise, I could post a piece to you.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On 19/02/2012 18:08, joe M wrote:
> Hello,
>
> With the "JetStar Premium film", I do not have to buy photosensitive
> boards? Can I make the photosensitive boards from normal boards using this?
> The photo pcb's are pretty expensive. Would be cool if this is a cheaper
> option.

The film is used to produce negative or positive transparencies. 
Suitable sensitised boards must be used with it, of course. You can 
either buy them pre-sensitised, or buy the film and apply it yourself. 
It's a bit tricky, though. I don't make many boards so I don't mind the 
cost of the pre-sensitised ones.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 13:08:24 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello,
>
>With the "JetStar Premium film", I do not have to buy photosensitive
>boards? Can I make the photosensitive boards from normal boards using this?
>The photo pcb's are pretty expensive. Would be cool if this is a cheaper
>option.

You expose the photosensitive boards with a "mask", a positive, black
where there is to be copper, kind of transparency.  That's what the
film is for.

Toner Transfer transfers the toner directly from the paper to the
board, and the toner becomes the resist.

On photosensitive boards, the resist is bought on the board, and is
exposed, developed and then etched.

Harvey

>
>Thanks
>Joe
>
>On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:11:21 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>> >On 19/02/2012 15:57, Harvey White wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> For the quantities of board I use, if I had access to good
>> >> photosensitive board in the sizes I need, I'd use it. That is, if it
>> >> were cheap enough. I can get (locally) single sided 0.23 inch PCB
>> >> which is ideal for making double sided boards. For some reason, I
>> >> seem to make double sided more than single sided.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Nearly all mine are single-sided.
>>
>> I do things like LCD display drivers, microprocessor boards, stepper
>> driver boards, sensor interface boards, etc. Not a lot of analog
>> wiring, mostly digital.
>>
>> I dislike jumpers, so the effort of making a separate layer is often
>> worth the added step. Since my main techniques involve thin board
>> epoxied together to make a dual sided board, I effectively make two
>> boards to get one, but I can remake the "bad" one easily.
>>
>> Last run was 10 board sides, two stepper motor drivers, breakout board
>> for a PCB drill, back panel for same, and a power distribution board.
>> You pays your money.... etc.
>>
>> >
>> >> My problems in photoetch are not the developer, nor the exposure (made
>> >> a vacuum frame and use an enlarger timer), but the density of the
>> >> positive. Neither the laser nor the inkjet seem to do quite a good
>> >> enough job so far. Exposure therefore is tricky. I do miss kodalith
>> >> a lot.
>> >
>> >As I've said several times, I get excellent positive transparencies with
>> >a cheap HP 9540 inkjet printer and JetStar Premium film.
>>
>> I'll have to try that, and see if JetStar Premium is available here.
>> That's when I start in with the photoetch, of course.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>> >
>> >Leon
>>
>>  
>>
>

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 18:23:54 +0000, you wrote:

>On 19/02/2012 18:00, Harvey White wrote:
>
>>
>> I dislike jumpers, so the effort of making a separate layer is often
>> worth the added step. Since my main techniques involve thin board
>> epoxied together to make a dual sided board, I effectively make two
>> boards to get one, but I can remake the "bad" one easily.
>>
>> Last run was 10 board sides, two stepper motor drivers, breakout board
>> for a PCB drill, back panel for same, and a power distribution board.
>> You pays your money.... etc.
>
>I can usually design boards so that very few jumpers are required. With 
>double-sided boards soldering all the links through the vias is worse 
>than a few jumpers! :)

I'd agree to that, but I'm likely to have more jumpers than either of
us care to think about.  Mega256 and a VQFP 100 chip for video, or
FPGA and the same.  Definitely not a jumperless project.  I think
you're not designing the stuff I am playing with.

(some details at www.dragonworks.info with probably pictures of
various boards.  Look at the color LCD display, for example)

>
>>  >As I've said several times, I get excellent positive transparencies with
>>  >a cheap HP 9540 inkjet printer and JetStar Premium film.
>>
>> I'll have to try that, and see if JetStar Premium is available here.
>> That's when I start in with the photoetch, of course.
>
>Farnell stocks it, but only in the A3 size, for some strange reason. 
>Since I cut it to size it doesn't matter. They stock the ordinary 
>JetStar (I used to use that with a lower-res Epson inkjet) in A4. Mega 
>Electronics will probably send you a sample sheet if you ask them 
>nicely, they sent me one. Otherwise, I could post a piece to you.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll wait until I'm ready to start
photoetching before I start investigating.  

Harvey

>
>Leon

I'm using a Samsung ML-2525. Works well, just have to make sure you have it set to the darkest settings. I've dedicated this printer for PCB's in the lab. 

Have a look at http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/start_here/printer_info.html

Also, drop Frank an e-mail at mail@....  He's very good at helping people use his product.

Regards,
Lee

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "storan4wd" <bob.balderson@...> wrote:

>
> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> > photo paper. 
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I am that someone! Just for interest, I tried using that Samsung ML-1860 laser to print a small piece of Pulsar paper stuck to a regular paper carrier. It was very good indeed - once I remembered to set the paper to "thick".
> 
> I didn't proceed any further but I could see that it ought to give good results to about 10mil.
> 
> It impressed me enough to think about using my old stock of Pulsar paper to make iron on silk screens.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RL" <rlrc2003@...> wrote:
>
> I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar. 
> Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> photo paper. Any one else with sug? 
> And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> Thanks,
> Mark
>


Hi Mark, I've been using Pulsars TTF and Green film for about 2 years now. I using a Lexmark E234. When using it with my printer when I print my sample off on bond I lay another sheet of bond paper over it and then tape my pulsar paper to it. Sometimes the printed sheet will curl and then jam on the second pass with the pulsar attached. I dont make circuit boards but etch brass for sometimes up to 4 hours or longer. With very fine lines and details. The main thing is to find you a toner that works and use it. They say to buy manufactures toner but at 4 to 5 times the cost...I'll pass. 
 On the laminator I use his GBC an older version than what he has now and have never moded it and it works just fine right out of the box. 
 I will say Ive had failures because of what I etch and how much I have to brush and clean to get a deep etch. But for a board I would think using it some Radio Shack Ferric Chloride. One bottle of it should net a large number of boards. If not try saltwater and a rectifier. You can make a gallon of etchent for dollar.
Later Terry

Thank you  all for the great tips and suggestions on the pinters.
Hopefully by the end of the week I can try a couple layouts on a
board. 
Mark

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RL" <rlrc2003@> wrote:
> >
> > I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar. 
> > Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> > of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> > photo paper. Any one else with sug? 
> > And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> > I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> > problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> 
> 
> Hi Mark, I've been using Pulsars TTF and Green film for about 2 years now. I using a Lexmark E234. When using it with my printer when I print my sample off on bond I lay another sheet of bond paper over it and then tape my pulsar paper to it. Sometimes the printed sheet will curl and then jam on the second pass with the pulsar attached. I dont make circuit boards but etch brass for sometimes up to 4 hours or longer. With very fine lines and details. The main thing is to find you a toner that works and use it. They say to buy manufactures toner but at 4 to 5 times the cost...I'll pass. 
>  On the laminator I use his GBC an older version than what he has now and have never moded it and it works just fine right out of the box. 
>  I will say Ive had failures because of what I etch and how much I have to brush and clean to get a deep etch. But for a board I would think using it some Radio Shack Ferric Chloride. One bottle of it should net a large number of boards. If not try saltwater and a rectifier. You can make a gallon of etchent for dollar.
> Later Terry
>

Hi Terry,

I am interested to learn more about metal etching.

When you say "deep" what is that in mm or inches?

What etchant are you using for the brass?

Spray etch?

TIA,

Bertho

 

From JezusJonz   Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 20:09




Hi Mark, I've been using Pulsars TTF and Green film for about 2 years now. I
using a Lexmark E234. When using it with my printer when I print my sample
off on bond I lay another sheet of bond paper over it and then tape my
pulsar paper to it. Sometimes the printed sheet will curl and then jam on
the second pass with the pulsar attached. I dont make circuit boards but
etch brass for sometimes up to 4 hours or longer. With very fine lines and
details. The main thing is to find you a toner that works and use it. They
say to buy manufactures toner but at 4 to 5 times the cost...I'll pass. 
On the laminator I use his GBC an older version than what he has now and
have never moded it and it works just fine right out of the box. 
I will say Ive had failures because of what I etch and how much I have to
brush and clean to get a deep etch. But for a board I would think using it
some Radio Shack Ferric Chloride. One bottle of it should net a large number
of boards. If not try saltwater and a rectifier. You can make a gallon of
etchent for dollar.
Later Terry



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All,

Contrary to popular belief ( and because I did not know any better when I
started ) I use a Brother H-5250 and H-5370 1200dpi printers with very good
results when used with Pulsar Transfer Paper. I did not read the negative
recommendations until it was too late.

Some of my project can be seen at:

http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com/search/label/PCB

All of my Toner Transfer projects were printed with the Brother Priinter.

As can be seen, I get very GOOD resolution at 6/6 traces. Most of the
project are 8/8.

Take the PCB Challenge, as I have documented my results on the blog, see if
your printer will do as well.

http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-on-spiral-challenge.html


I like the Brother Printer for Pulsar Toner Transfer Projects ( but then,
it is the only printer that I have :-)

So, it can be done!

Regards,

72 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/



On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 08:31, Terry <twgray2007@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Probably best to follow Pulsar's advise and use a Canon based printer.
> Brother DOES NOT work due to the fact their toner chemistry is different. I
> have found that copiers then to work better than printers, but you can get
> away with one of the cheap $100 Canon printers...try Amazon!
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RL" <rlrc2003@...> wrote:
> >
> > I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar.
> > Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> > of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> > photo paper. Any one else with sug?
> > And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> > I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> > problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harvey White <madyn@...> writes:
> My problems in photoetch are not the developer, nor the exposure (made
> a vacuum frame and use an enlarger timer), but the density of the
> positive.

I use an Epson R280 (Claria Inks) with Jetstar and my own printing
software, and I'm able to span 8 steps on the 21 step gauge, which is
pretty good (toner is only 2-3 steps).  Regular print drivers will not
work correctly for UV films!  They try to avoid putting down too much
ink and do not know about the special UV films.

For Jetstar Premium, I can put down a full coat of ink (smallest drop
size, 2880 DPI) without smearing.  For Standard, I dither 50% except for
a few pixels at the edges that are 100%.

> Not unless I invest in trying to put my own film resist on.

I figured out to put film resist on very reliably.  Summary:

cut the film 1-2 inches extra on one edge, tape this edge to a piece of
carrier paper as the "top" edge (the edge that goes into the laminator
first).  Put your pcb under it.  Cut two "tabs" of paper - about 0.5 x 2
inches.  Tape these to the two "bottom" edges at a 45 degree angle.

Now, when you laminate, once the paper is caught, use the tabs to lift
the film OFF the pcb.  Pull UP and BACK gently just to keep it flat.
Once the leading edge of the film is caught, pull harder, and up more,
to make sure the film won't touch the pcb until it's in the rollers.

This pretty much eliminates air bubbles.

You can also combine Adam's squeegie method with a laminator if you can
reduce the laminator temperature to less than 212 F (100 C) or the
steam from the boiling water causes bubbles in the film.

Eldon, those are some *very* good results, and I am one who had difficulty with one of the early Brother printers using Press and Peel Blue.

Ted, KX4OM
www.kx4om.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Eldon Brown <eldonb46@...> wrote:

>
> All,
> 
> Contrary to popular belief ( and because I did not know any better when I
> started ) I use a Brother H-5250 and H-5370 1200dpi printers with very good
> results when used with Pulsar Transfer Paper. I did not read the negative
> recommendations until it was too late.
> 
> Some of my project can be seen at:
> 
> http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com/search/label/PCB
> 
> All of my Toner Transfer projects were printed with the Brother Priinter.
> 
> As can be seen, I get very GOOD resolution at 6/6 traces. Most of the
> project are 8/8.
> 
> Take the PCB Challenge, as I have documented my results on the blog, see if
> your printer will do as well.
> 
> http://wa0uwh.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-on-spiral-challenge.html
> 
> 
> I like the Brother Printer for Pulsar Toner Transfer Projects ( but then,
> it is the only printer that I have :-)
> 
> So, it can be done!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 72 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 08:31, Terry <twgray2007@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Probably best to follow Pulsar's advise and use a Canon based printer.
> > Brother DOES NOT work due to the fact their toner chemistry is different. I
> > have found that copiers then to work better than printers, but you can get
> > away with one of the cheap $100 Canon printers...try Amazon!
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RL" <rlrc2003@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I had just purchased some Toner Transfer paper from Pulsar.
> > > Do any of you have any suggestions on the type
> > > of printer that you have had good luck with this product?
> > > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> > > photo paper. Any one else with sug?
> > > And any other tips on this product would be helpful.
> > > I tried the CNC way for a few weeks now, but there are to many
> > > problems, when dealing with such small traces.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mark
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I am considering making a vacuum frame to use for the UV exposure method.
Has anyone made or own a vacuum frame that they can share their thoughts on?
I am unable to find any pictures or information of PCB frames made by others
for our purposes.  Does anyone have any suggestions for materials like
plastic covering (dry cleaner bags UV transparent?) or the porous material
for allowing the vacuum to flow under the board?

 

Jeff

 

  _____  

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of leeleduc
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 6:23 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Printer and Pulsar Paper

 

  



I'm using a Samsung ML-2525. Works well, just have to make sure you have it
set to the darkest settings. I've dedicated this printer for PCB's in the
lab. 

Have a look at
http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/start_here/printer_info.html

Also, drop Frank an e-mail at mail@...
<mailto:mail%40pulsarprofx.com> . He's very good at helping people use his
product.

Regards,
Lee

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "storan4wd" <bob.balderson@...>
wrote:
>
> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
> > photo paper. 
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I am that someone! Just for interest, I tried using that Samsung ML-1860
laser to print a small piece of Pulsar paper stuck to a regular paper
carrier. It was very good indeed - once I remembered to set the paper to
"thick".
> 
> I didn't proceed any further but I could see that it ought to give good
results to about 10mil.
> 
> It impressed me enough to think about using my old stock of Pulsar paper
to make iron on silk screens.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you can get some polyester translucent paper, you can use a drop of water.  Works great.

--- On Mon, 2/20/12, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...>
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] vacuum frame for UV exposure
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 20, 2012, 10:41 PM
















 



  


    
      
      
      I am considering making a vacuum frame to use for the UV exposure method.

Has anyone made or own a vacuum frame that they can share their thoughts on?

I am unable to find any pictures or information of PCB frames made by others

for our purposes.  Does anyone have any suggestions for materials like

plastic covering (dry cleaner bags UV transparent?) or the porous material

for allowing the vacuum to flow under the board?



Jeff



_____  



From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of leeleduc

Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 6:23 PM

To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Printer and Pulsar Paper



I'm using a Samsung ML-2525. Works well, just have to make sure you have it

set to the darkest settings. I've dedicated this printer for PCB's in the

lab. 



Have a look at

http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/start_here/printer_info.html



Also, drop Frank an e-mail at mail@...

<mailto:mail%40pulsarprofx.com> . He's very good at helping people use his

product.



Regards,

Lee



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "storan4wd" <bob.balderson@...>

wrote:

>

> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.

> > photo paper. 

> 

> Hi Mark,

> 

> I am that someone! Just for interest, I tried using that Samsung ML-1860

laser to print a small piece of Pulsar paper stuck to a regular paper

carrier. It was very good indeed - once I remembered to set the paper to

"thick".

> 

> I didn't proceed any further but I could see that it ought to give good

results to about 10mil.

> 

> It impressed me enough to think about using my old stock of Pulsar paper

to make iron on silk screens.

> 

> Regards,

> 

> Bob

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





    
     

    
    






  










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mine is a chunk of plywood with some gasket material in a square around
the edge.  Plate glass rests on the gasket, and a hole in the plywood
connects to the vacuum.  The trick is to use the minimum amount of
vacuum needed - too much of course breaks the glass.

Also, I use some cut up card stock to raise the pcb if it's thin, so
less vacuum is need.  About 3-5 inches should do.  You can even get this
much vacuum with a shop vac and a home made venturi, it's not much.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:41:09 -0500, you wrote:

>I am considering making a vacuum frame to use for the UV exposure method.
>Has anyone made or own a vacuum frame that they can share their thoughts on?
>I am unable to find any pictures or information of PCB frames made by others
>for our purposes.  Does anyone have any suggestions for materials like
>plastic covering (dry cleaner bags UV transparent?) or the porous material
>for allowing the vacuum to flow under the board?
>

I made a crude but workable frame from MDF, the painted kind.  Drilled
holes in it, ran a shop vac to it, and used vinyl from a fabric store
as the cover for the board.  Seemed to work just fine.  The extended
sides supported the lamps.

Harvey

> 
>
>Jeff
>
> 
>
>  _____  
>
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>On Behalf Of leeleduc
>Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 6:23 PM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Printer and Pulsar Paper
>
> 
>
>  
>
>
>
>I'm using a Samsung ML-2525. Works well, just have to make sure you have it
>set to the darkest settings. I've dedicated this printer for PCB's in the
>lab. 
>
>Have a look at
>http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/start_here/printer_info.html
>
>Also, drop Frank an e-mail at mail@...
><mailto:mail%40pulsarprofx.com> . He's very good at helping people use his
>product.
>
>Regards,
>Lee
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
><mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "storan4wd" <bob.balderson@...>
>wrote:
>>
>> > I saw some one used a samsung laser 1200x1200 dpi with reg.
>> > photo paper. 
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> I am that someone! Just for interest, I tried using that Samsung ML-1860
>laser to print a small piece of Pulsar paper stuck to a regular paper
>carrier. It was very good indeed - once I remembered to set the paper to
>"thick".
>> 
>> I didn't proceed any further but I could see that it ought to give good
>results to about 10mil.
>> 
>> It impressed me enough to think about using my old stock of Pulsar paper
>to make iron on silk screens.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Bob
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I once did a larger vacuum plate out of 6mm high dense MDF thru which I made rows of very small holes. By larger I mean 600x 800 mm. The high dense MDF had a very flat surface.
The MDF plate was backed with pucks in approx 20 mm diam. of the same material to keep the plate flat when the vacuum cleaner makes a back pressure below it.
I did it all using a laser - we have  bigger one, GCC Spirit GX -  so most time was spent CADing the thing and figuring out how to attach a vacuum cleaner. It' a very cheap thing to make if you have a spare vacuum cleaner. Make shure you can adjust the sucking power to compensate for the various numbers of holes you use. We simply covered the holes not i use with the flat side of masonite or cardboard.

For the ring to which to attach the vacuum cleaner I ended up taking parts from an older vacuum cleaner and glueing it all to the wooden "base". I used wood glue to seal the joints of the MDF. 

The plate was damaged by a student so when there's time I'll make a similar one again. It's great thing to have when milling parts that cannot be clamped.

You could probably make a smaller one for pcb's using a similar method but using a smaller vacuum pump - aquarium pump maybe? Maybe masonite or acryl is a strong enough plate material.


/Per







21 feb 2012 kl. 04.41 skrev Jeff Heiss:

> I am considering making a vacuum frame to use for the UV exposure method.
> Has anyone made or own a vacuum frame that they can share their thoughts on?
> I am unable to find any pictures or information of PCB frames made by others
> for our purposes. Does anyone have any suggestions for materials like
> plastic covering (dry cleaner bags UV transparent?) or the porous material
> for allowing the vacuum to flow under the board?

Per Mattsson - per@... - 0706524567





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does a vacuum frame really help. I get excellent results (down to 8/8) 
without one, just putting the board and transparency on the glass with a 
book on top.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:27:21 +0000, you wrote:

>Does a vacuum frame really help. I get excellent results (down to 8/8) 
>without one, just putting the board and transparency on the glass with a 
>book on top.

Main problem is that the glass reduces UV, and the plastic doesn't.  I
went for a shorter exposure and more UV.  I'm also exposing from the
top, not bottom.

Harvey

>
>Leon