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Components stick to tools

Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Steve

I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use 
tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its 
position on the board.

Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the 
dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be 
unable to "let go" of it.

What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of 
components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with 
alcohol, but to no avail.

Thanks.

Steve K8JQ

-- 
Read The Patriot Post    Vertitas vos Liberabit
http://patriotpost.us/subscription/

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Steve Maroney

ESD Safe Tweezers


Regards,

Steve Maroney
Business Computer Support, LLC
504.904.0266  Office
504.914.4704 Mobile
866.871.7797  Fax
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 8:20 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools



I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use
tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its
position on the board.

Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the
dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be
unable to "let go" of it.

What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of
components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with
alcohol, but to no avail.

Thanks.

Steve K8JQ

--
Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit
http://patriotpost.us/subscription/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by KeepIt SimpleStupid

I'll bet it's magnitism.  They make Titanium tweezers for SMD work.  www.digikey.com.

--- On Sun, 10/23/11, Steve <steve65@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Steve <steve65@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 23, 2011, 9:19 PM
















 



  


    
      
      
      I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use 

tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its 

position on the board.



Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the 

dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be 

unable to "let go" of it.



What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of 

components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with 

alcohol, but to no avail.



Thanks.



Steve K8JQ



-- 

Read The Patriot Post    Vertitas vos Liberabit

http://patriotpost.us/subscription/





    
     

    
    






  










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Paul Mateer

I always thought it was the flux....

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:28 PM, KeepIt SimpleStupid <
keepitsimplestupid@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I'll bet it's magnitism.  They make Titanium tweezers for SMD work.
> www.digikey.com.
>
> --- On Sun, 10/23/11, Steve <steve65@...> wrote:
>
> From: Steve <steve65@...>
>
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, October 23, 2011, 9:19 PM
>
>
>
>
> I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use
>
> tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its
>
> position on the board.
>
> Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the
>
> dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be
>
> unable to "let go" of it.
>
> What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of
>
> components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with
>
> alcohol, but to no avail.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve K8JQ
>
> --
>
> Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit
>
> http://patriotpost.us/subscription/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>



-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Steve Maroney

http://www.adafruit.com/products/421

Regards,

Steve Maroney
Business Computer Support, LLC
504.904.0266  Office
504.914.4704 Mobile
866.871.7797  Fax
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:28 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools



I'll bet it's magnitism.  They make Titanium tweezers for SMD work.  www.digikey.com.

--- On Sun, 10/23/11, Steve <steve65@...<mailto:steve65%40suddenlink.net>> wrote:

From: Steve <steve65@...<mailto:steve65%40suddenlink.net>>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, October 23, 2011, 9:19 PM



I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use

tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its

position on the board.

Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the

dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be

unable to "let go" of it.

What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of

components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with

alcohol, but to no avail.

Thanks.

Steve K8JQ

--

Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit

http://patriotpost.us/subscription/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Leon Heller

On 24/10/2011 02:19, Steve wrote:
> I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use
> tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its
> position on the board.
>
> Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the
> dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be
> unable to "let go" of it.
>
> What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of
> components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with
> alcohol, but to no avail.


Perhaps the tools have become magnetised. I once used an electromagnet 
powered by AC to demagnetise a tool by placing it in contact and slowly 
withdrawing it from the field.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Steve

Thanks all for the advice.

I'm using Wiha 44523 and 44529 tweezers, which the Wiha web site lists 
as ESD safe and anti-magnetic. Not sure what anti-magnetic means. The 
dental pick is just "normal" steel as far as I can tell.

I have one of those magnetize/demagnetize gadgets (made by Wiha I think) 
that you pass a screwdriver through one side to magnetize and the other 
side to demagnetize. I'll try passing the tweezers and dental pick 
through the demagnetize side and see what happens (this evening after work).

Never gave much thought to SMD components such as resistors and 
capacitors having enough ferrous material in them to be attracted to a 
magnet. As well as IC's, they stick to the tools as well.

Steve K8JQ
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 10/24/2011 6:03 AM, Leon Heller wrote:
> On 24/10/2011 02:19, Steve wrote:
>> I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use
>> tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its
>> position on the board.
>>
>> Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the
>> dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be
>> unable to "let go" of it.
>>
>> What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of
>> components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with
>> alcohol, but to no avail.
>
> Perhaps the tools have become magnetised. I once used an electromagnet
> powered by AC to demagnetise a tool by placing it in contact and slowly
> withdrawing it from the field.
>
> Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Leon Heller

On 24/10/2011 13:05, Steve wrote:
> Thanks all for the advice.
>
> I'm using Wiha 44523 and 44529 tweezers, which the Wiha web site lists
> as ESD safe and anti-magnetic. Not sure what anti-magnetic means. The
> dental pick is just "normal" steel as far as I can tell.
>
> I have one of those magnetize/demagnetize gadgets (made by Wiha I think)
> that you pass a screwdriver through one side to magnetize and the other
> side to demagnetize. I'll try passing the tweezers and dental pick
> through the demagnetize side and see what happens (this evening after work).
>
> Never gave much thought to SMD components such as resistors and
> capacitors having enough ferrous material in them to be attracted to a
> magnet. As well as IC's, they stick to the tools as well.

I don't think I've noticed it with SMD parts. Rs and Cs with leads are 
often magnetic, though. I've had them or cut-off leads sticking to 
loudspeakers.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Donald H Locker

My experience with exceedingly small parts is limited, but it felt to me like flux or such that was making the part stick to the manipulator.

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Steve" <steve65@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:05:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools
> Thanks all for the advice.
> 
> I'm using Wiha 44523 and 44529 tweezers, which the Wiha web site lists
> as ESD safe and anti-magnetic. Not sure what anti-magnetic means. The
> dental pick is just "normal" steel as far as I can tell.
> 
> I have one of those magnetize/demagnetize gadgets (made by Wiha I
> think)
> that you pass a screwdriver through one side to magnetize and the
> other
> side to demagnetize. I'll try passing the tweezers and dental pick
> through the demagnetize side and see what happens (this evening after
> work).
> 
> Never gave much thought to SMD components such as resistors and
> capacitors having enough ferrous material in them to be attracted to a
> magnet. As well as IC's, they stick to the tools as well.
> 
> Steve K8JQ
> 
> On 10/24/2011 6:03 AM, Leon Heller wrote:
> > On 24/10/2011 02:19, Steve wrote:
> >> I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend.
> >> Use
> >> tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its
> >> position on the board.
> >>
> >> Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to
> >> the
> >> dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot
> >> and be
> >> unable to "let go" of it.
> >>
> >> What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect
> >> of
> >> components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with
> >> alcohol, but to no avail.
> >
> > Perhaps the tools have become magnetised. I once used an
> > electromagnet
> > powered by AC to demagnetise a tool by placing it in contact and
> > slowly
> > withdrawing it from the field.
> >
> > Leon
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by arvidj01

If we make the assumption that non- and anti- magnetic mean the same thing then most stainless steel falls into that category. Austenite stainless steel ... about 70% of all the stainless produced ... is non-magnetic. If the tweezers are stainess then putting it thru the device will do not harm but will also do not good. 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Steve <steve65@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks all for the advice.
> 
> I'm using Wiha 44523 and 44529 tweezers, which the Wiha web site lists 
> as ESD safe and anti-magnetic. Not sure what anti-magnetic means. The 
> dental pick is just "normal" steel as far as I can tell.
> 
> I have one of those magnetize/demagnetize gadgets (made by Wiha I think) 
> that you pass a screwdriver through one side to magnetize and the other 
> side to demagnetize. I'll try passing the tweezers and dental pick 
> through the demagnetize side and see what happens (this evening after work).
> 
> Never gave much thought to SMD components such as resistors and 
> capacitors having enough ferrous material in them to be attracted to a 
> magnet. As well as IC's, they stick to the tools as well.
> 
> Steve K8JQ
> 
> On 10/24/2011 6:03 AM, Leon Heller wrote:
> > On 24/10/2011 02:19, Steve wrote:
> >> I've been placing some 0805 SMT components on PCB's this weekend. Use
> >> tweezers to place the component and a dental pick to fine tune its
> >> position on the board.
> >>
> >> Often times the component will stick to a leg of the tweezer or to the
> >> dental pick. Very annoying to get the component in the right spot and be
> >> unable to "let go" of it.
> >>
> >> What makes it stick? Anything to do to lessen the sticking effect of
> >> components to tools? I cleaned the tweezers and dental pick with
> >> alcohol, but to no avail.
> >
> > Perhaps the tools have become magnetised. I once used an electromagnet
> > powered by AC to demagnetise a tool by placing it in contact and slowly
> > withdrawing it from the field.
> >
> > Leon
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Erik Knise

When I did production soldering I had this problem a lot and I would
clean my tweezers with isopropyl alcohol and they would be good to go.
 I thought it was some residual flux also.

-- 
Erik L. Knise
Seattle, WA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> wrote:
> I always thought it was the flux....
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Components stick to tools

2011-10-24 by Charles R. Patton

In the very early days of SMT parts, the terminations were pure silver.  
Not magnetic, but the silver dissolved rapidly leaving the part with no 
terminations, hence the solders with silver content.  Later terminations 
often had a nickel layer.  Much more robust, but also magnetic.    
Capacitors and resistors were made with copper wire.  That has long ago 
ceased for cost savings.  So today all those kind of parts use plated 
iron wire.

Cheap tweezers (Harbor Freight imports and the like, are carbon steel 
with residual magnetism.)  Even several varieties of stainless steel are 
magnetic enough.    I would be suspicious of your Wiha de-magnetizer.  
Often they use permanent magnets to "de-magnetize".  Not really, they 
just make shorter poles or magnetize through the cross section rather 
than lengthwise of a tool like a screwdriver.  This will reduce the 
available 'pick-up' power, but not remove it entirely.  The better 
solutions are the AC powered demagnetizers -- the AC field will get the 
part to almost zero remnant field.  Or as has already been mentioned, 
Titanium.  Titanium is non-magnetic and also almost un-solderable, so if 
using your tweezers while soldering, they don't get soldered to the 
part/board.  The other way is to use ESD plastic tweezers as was also 
mentioned.  I was trying to go that route when I purchased a couple of 
plastic tipped tweezers from Harbor Freight.  Don't waste your money.  
The plastic tips are thermo-plastic that melts instantly on contact with 
a hot soldering iron.  I had hoped they would be Teflon -- no such luck.

So glancing at the Digikey site, the cheapest titanium tweezers are over 
$23.    I have some old tungsten TIG-arc rod and think I'll try brazing 
that on a cheap carbon steel tweezer.  Should be as good as titanium -- 
non-magnetic and un-solderable.

Just some musings,
Regards,
Charles R. Patton

On 10/24/2011 5:45 AM, Leon Heller wrote:
>
> On 24/10/2011 13:05, Steve wrote:
> > Thanks all for the advice.
> >
> > I'm using Wiha 44523 and 44529 tweezers, which the Wiha web site lists
> > as ESD safe and anti-magnetic. Not sure what anti-magnetic means. The
> > dental pick is just "normal" steel as far as I can tell.
> >
> > I have one of those magnetize/demagnetize gadgets (made by Wiha I think)
> > that you pass a screwdriver through one side to magnetize and the other
> > side to demagnetize. I'll try passing the tweezers and dental pick
> > through the demagnetize side and see what happens (this evening 
> after work).
> >
> > Never gave much thought to SMD components such as resistors and
> > capacitors having enough ferrous material in them to be attracted to a
> > magnet. As well as IC's, they stick to the tools as well.
>
> I don't think I've noticed it with SMD parts. Rs and Cs with leads are
> often magnetic, though. I've had them or cut-off leads sticking to
> loudspeakers.
>
> Leon
> -- 
> Leon Heller
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-25 by Tony Smith

> If we make the assumption that non- and anti- magnetic mean the same thing
> then most stainless steel falls into that category. Austenite stainless
steel ...
> about 70% of all the stainless produced ... is non-magnetic. If the
tweezers are
> stainess then putting it thru the device will do not harm but will also do
not
> good.

Austenite stainless is 300 series, usually non-magnetic but can be after
beaten into shape (work hardening).  You need to anneal your tweezers, not
run them through a demagnetiser.  It's only be very slightly magnetic
though, you can feel a slight attraction to a magnet.

400 series stainless steel is magnetic - that's what they make fridges,
microwaves & cutlery out of.  Cheaper & less rust resistant.

As others have mentioned most component leads are tin-plated steel/iron
these days.

Some places sell bamboo tweezers, or you can get a vacuum pen.  I like the
pen, there's fewer 'ping!' 'where did that go?' moments.

Tony

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-25 by Piers Goodhew

I would presume there would also be *some* adhesion due to moisture and/or grease (such as might come out of your fingertips from time to time).

If you have any iron filings, you can always see how magnetised yr tweezers actually are.

PG
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 25/10/2011, at 7:00 PM, Tony Smith wrote:

> > If we make the assumption that non- and anti- magnetic mean the same thing
> > then most stainless steel falls into that category. Austenite stainless
> steel ...
> > about 70% of all the stainless produced ... is non-magnetic. If the
> tweezers are
> > stainess then putting it thru the device will do not harm but will also do
> not
> > good.
> 
> Austenite stainless is 300 series, usually non-magnetic but can be after
> beaten into shape (work hardening). You need to anneal your tweezers, not
> run them through a demagnetiser. It's only be very slightly magnetic
> though, you can feel a slight attraction to a magnet.
> 
> 400 series stainless steel is magnetic - that's what they make fridges,
> microwaves & cutlery out of. Cheaper & less rust resistant.
> 
> As others have mentioned most component leads are tin-plated steel/iron
> these days.
> 
> Some places sell bamboo tweezers, or you can get a vacuum pen. I like the
> pen, there's fewer 'ping!' 'where did that go?' moments.
> 
> Tony
> 
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-25 by Tony Smith

> I would presume there would also be *some* adhesion due to moisture and/or
> grease (such as might come out of your fingertips from time to time).
> 
> If you have any iron filings, you can always see how magnetised yr
tweezers
> actually are.


I've got a couple of these
http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/191731/science/tweezers-and-forceps
(4th down, TL1054) and some that they no longer stock.  

Stainless but has 'non-magnetic' written on them.  They don't attract
filing.  Whoever was paying $30 for them is paying too much.

All the others I have seem to be chrome plated steel.  Amusingly one set of
these has only one arm that's magnetic, with patience I can pick up a 2x5mm
LED.  I should claim to have discovered a monopole.

Tony

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-28 by Charles Patton

Well, after the discussion about titanium tweezers, I went to Ebay and 
bought a tweezers from this link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-5-Sharp-Point-Titanium-Jewelers-Tweezers-BCZ02-/360404280619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e9c4e52b

$10.90 including shipping (USA).  A good price, I think.  I got it 
today, and my components don't stick -- it is definitely anti-magnetic, 
and the grinder sparks are unlike any steel I've ever seen.  .  Touching 
it to a grinder generates sparks that are very fine and bright white 
hot.  It feels much lighter than what I would expect for standard steel 
tweezers (titanium is 57% the specific density of steel)  so it probably 
is titanium as advertised.   The points are sharp and well mated.  I 
look forward to testing it soon in action.

If anyone has an easy, definitive test for titanium, I could possibly 
try it.

I also ordered an "ESD" safe anti-magnetic tweezer from a China/Hong 
Kong source, but it won't be here for a week or two.  I'll report on it 
when it comes in.

Anyway, the titanium tweezers above seems to be a good value.


Regards,
Charles R. Patton

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-28 by Jim Franklin

Do you always submit your tools to the "Grinder test" ?

It made me smile anyway :)

<...snip> and my components don't stick -- it is definitely anti-magnetic, 
and the grinder sparks are unlike any steel I've ever seen. . Touching 
it to a grinder generates sparks that are very fine and bright white 
hot.  <snip...>


-Jim

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Components stick to tools

2011-10-28 by Stefan Trethan

The weight is the best indicator. You can also try CuCl etchant if you
have it, or ferric cloride. They will etch stainless but not titanium.
Sparks are white as you say.

ST



On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Charles Patton
<charles.r.patton@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Well, after the discussion about titanium tweezers, I went to Ebay and
> bought a tweezers from this link:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-5-Sharp-Point-Titanium-Jewelers-Tweezers-BCZ02-/360404280619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e9c4e52b
>
> $10.90 including shipping (USA).  A good price, I think.  I got it
> today, and my components don't stick -- it is definitely anti-magnetic,
> and the grinder sparks are unlike any steel I've ever seen.  .  Touching
> it to a grinder generates sparks that are very fine and bright white
> hot.  It feels much lighter than what I would expect for standard steel
> tweezers (titanium is 57% the specific density of steel)  so it probably
> is titanium as advertised.   The points are sharp and well mated.  I
> look forward to testing it soon in action.
>
> If anyone has an easy, definitive test for titanium, I could possibly
> try it.
>
> I also ordered an "ESD" safe anti-magnetic tweezer from a China/Hong
> Kong source, but it won't be here for a week or two.  I'll report on it
> when it comes in.
>
> Anyway, the titanium tweezers above seems to be a good value.
>
>
> Regards,
> Charles R. Patton
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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