Homebrew PCBs

Hi All,

I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas).  One thing I
have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain the
raw materials for our projects.  In some cases (Dry film resists) it either
takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time (Think'n
Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express shipping).
There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is problematic.
A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by the
name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist.  It worked very well, was very
reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
eBay.  Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
(i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically).  It is now
impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based photoresist
around.  I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
health concerns.

What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own materials,
where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, in
this case photo-imaging materials.  I know there has been a lot of
experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, high-quality
boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards.  I'm sure some people
will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), and
the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, especially
after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)

Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
already placed an order which should be here in a couple days.  I'd like to
do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the minimum
order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
available payment methods.  I'd like to think that we can use enough of the
purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 6
months, similar for dry-film).  I would suggest charging actual cost plus a
small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?).  I
want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a lot
of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality.  The
cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded envelope
or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000).  If it's popular enough, I could offer
additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.

I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials at
near-cost, quickly.  However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
can remember) I figured I could at least start the process.  I have to add
some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business days
of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping items
there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also will
not even try to ship an order.  Likewise, if I find out after the order has
been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the right
to refuse/refund orders.  Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
won't work with people who can't be polite.  If there are unusual
circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will charge
a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
materials can be re-used and are not damaged).  And finally, I reserve the
right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.

This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize for
all the disclaimers.  I don't want to be sued or even given a bad reputation
because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
damaged, and the person is upset.

I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the interest
levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
offered.  I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
they're big and fairly reliable) for payment.  Materials could either be
ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
world.  I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
either put a stop to it or raise prices.  It may be necessary to go the eBay
route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it.  Let
me know!


Kind regards-
Larry Battraw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry,  I have been getting my presensitized PCB material from the company Circuit Specialists I believe they are located in Arizona, there material is fresh and is delivered in about one week.  Their website is .... http://www.circuitspecialists.com/
Usually I get the 4.6" x 6.6" size double sided boards http://www.circuitspecialists.com/gd114.html and then trim them down to 3.3"'4.6" to match the size that eagle software allows.  Are you offereing boards like that? 
I use the UV exposure process and it seems to be working for me alright here is a you tube video of... Making PCB for the FTDI Vinculum 2 Chip
http://youtu.be/qK6DKbzm024
If you interested in my youtube videos please subscribe.  If you are going to make up a bunch of double sided positive photoresist boards I would give some a try.  Let me know.  Tom

From: Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...>
>To: homebrew_pcbs <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:32 AM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
>
>
>  
>Hi All,
>
>I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
>takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
>last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas). One thing I
>have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain the
>raw materials for our projects. In some cases (Dry film resists) it either
>takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
>the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time (Think'n
>Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express shipping).
>There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
>the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is problematic.
>A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by the
>name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist. It worked very well, was very
>reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
>eBay. Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
>services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
>(i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically). It is now
>impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based photoresist
>around. I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
>health concerns.
>
>What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own materials,
>where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, in
>this case photo-imaging materials. I know there has been a lot of
>experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, high-quality
>boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards. I'm sure some people
>will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
>coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), and
>the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, especially
>after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)
>
>Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
>already placed an order which should be here in a couple days. I'd like to
>do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the minimum
>order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
>available payment methods. I'd like to think that we can use enough of the
>purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 6
>months, similar for dry-film). I would suggest charging actual cost plus a
>small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?). I
>want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a lot
>of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality. The
>cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded envelope
>or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000). If it's popular enough, I could offer
>additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.
>
>I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
>from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials at
>near-cost, quickly. However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
>can remember) I figured I could at least start the process. I have to add
>some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business days
>of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping items
>there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also will
>not even try to ship an order. Likewise, if I find out after the order has
>been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the right
>to refuse/refund orders. Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
>won't work with people who can't be polite. If there are unusual
>circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will charge
>a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
>materials can be re-used and are not damaged). And finally, I reserve the
>right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.
>
>This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize for
>all the disclaimers. I don't want to be sued or even given a bad reputation
>because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
>damaged, and the person is upset.
>
>I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the interest
>levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
>Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
>offered. I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
>they're big and fairly reliable) for payment. Materials could either be
>ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
>interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
>world. I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
>like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
>either put a stop to it or raise prices. It may be necessary to go the eBay
>route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it. Let
>me know!
>
>Kind regards-
>Larry Battraw
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you have so many problems, may be you should re-consider to another way,
like this:
http://iteadstudio.com/
http://batchpcb.com/

There are many places you can cheap pcbs with professional quality. Surely
it will be cheaper and easier.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Im interested .... in the aq3000 resist ink ...though it might go bad before I get a printer working for direct resist ..

Mike KC7NOA 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:

>
> Hi All,
> 
> I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
> takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
> last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas).  One thing I
> have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain the
> raw materials for our projects.  In some cases (Dry film resists) it either
> takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
> the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time (Think'n
> Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express shipping).
> There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
> the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is problematic.
> A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by the
> name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist.  It worked very well, was very
> reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
> eBay.  Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
> services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
> (i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically).  It is now
> impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based photoresist
> around.  I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
> health concerns.
> 
> What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own materials,
> where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, in
> this case photo-imaging materials.  I know there has been a lot of
> experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, high-quality
> boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards.  I'm sure some people
> will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
> coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), and
> the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, especially
> after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)
> 
> Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
> already placed an order which should be here in a couple days.  I'd like to
> do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the minimum
> order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
> available payment methods.  I'd like to think that we can use enough of the
> purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 6
> months, similar for dry-film).  I would suggest charging actual cost plus a
> small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?).  I
> want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a lot
> of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality.  The
> cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded envelope
> or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000).  If it's popular enough, I could offer
> additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.
> 
> I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
> from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials at
> near-cost, quickly.  However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
> can remember) I figured I could at least start the process.  I have to add
> some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business days
> of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping items
> there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also will
> not even try to ship an order.  Likewise, if I find out after the order has
> been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the right
> to refuse/refund orders.  Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
> won't work with people who can't be polite.  If there are unusual
> circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will charge
> a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
> materials can be re-used and are not damaged).  And finally, I reserve the
> right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.
> 
> This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize for
> all the disclaimers.  I don't want to be sued or even given a bad reputation
> because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
> damaged, and the person is upset.
> 
> I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the interest
> levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
> Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
> offered.  I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
> they're big and fairly reliable) for payment.  Materials could either be
> ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
> interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
> world.  I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
> like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
> either put a stop to it or raise prices.  It may be necessary to go the eBay
> route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it.  Let
> me know!
> 
> 
> Kind regards-
> Larry Battraw
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Tom,

What sort of material are you printing onto?  It looks like velum in the 
video.  Is it dark enough as printed from the laser printer or are you 
using an inkjet?

John



Automation Artisans Inc.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
Ph. 1 250 544 4950

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tom Biery
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:54 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials





Larry,  I have been getting my presensitized PCB material from the company 
Circuit Specialists I believe they are located in Arizona, there material 
is fresh and is delivered in about one week.  Their website is .... 
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/
Usually I get the 4.6" x 6.6" size double sided boards 
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/gd114.html and then trim them down to 
3.3"'4.6" to match the size that eagle software allows.  Are you offereing 
boards like that?
I use the UV exposure process and it seems to be working for me alright 
here is a you tube video of... Making PCB for the FTDI Vinculum 2 Chip
http://youtu.be/qK6DKbzm024
If you interested in my youtube videos please subscribe.  If you are going 
to make up a bunch of double sided positive photoresist boards I would 
give some a try.  Let me know.  Tom

From: Larry Battraw <lbattraw@... <mailto:lbattraw%40gmail.com> >
>To: homebrew_pcbs <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
><mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> >
>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:32 AM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
>takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
>last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas). One thing I
>have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain 
>the
>raw materials for our projects. In some cases (Dry film resists) it 
>either
>takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
>the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time 
>(Think'n
>Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express 
>shipping).
>There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
>the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is 
>problematic.
>A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by 
>the
>name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist. It worked very well, was very
>reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
>eBay. Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
>services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
>(i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically). It is now
>impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based 
>photoresist
>around. I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
>health concerns.
>
>What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own 
>materials,
>where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, 
>in
>this case photo-imaging materials. I know there has been a lot of
>experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, 
>high-quality
>boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards. I'm sure some 
>people
>will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
>coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), 
>and
>the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, 
>especially
>after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)
>
>Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
>already placed an order which should be here in a couple days. I'd like 
>to
>do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the 
>minimum
>order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
>available payment methods. I'd like to think that we can use enough of 
>the
>purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 
>6
>months, similar for dry-film). I would suggest charging actual cost plus 
>a
>small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?). I
>want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a 
>lot
>of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality. 
>The
>cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded 
>envelope
>or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000). If it's popular enough, I could offer
>additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.
>
>I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
>from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials 
>at
>near-cost, quickly. However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
>can remember) I figured I could at least start the process. I have to add
>some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business 
>days
>of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping 
>items
>there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also 
>will
>not even try to ship an order. Likewise, if I find out after the order 
>has
>been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the 
>right
>to refuse/refund orders. Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
>won't work with people who can't be polite. If there are unusual
>circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will 
>charge
>a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
>materials can be re-used and are not damaged). And finally, I reserve the
>right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.
>
>This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize 
>for
>all the disclaimers. I don't want to be sued or even given a bad 
>reputation
>because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
>damaged, and the person is upset.
>
>I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the 
>interest
>levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
>Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
>offered. I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
>they're big and fairly reliable) for payment. Materials could either be
>ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
>interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
>world. I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
>like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
>either put a stop to it or raise prices. It may be necessary to go the 
>eBay
>route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it. Let
>me know!
>
>Kind regards-
>Larry Battraw
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

from a laser, I would like it a little darker but its working.  I did find that the higher priced hp toner cartridges are darker than the refills.  A toner cartridge for the laser is about $180!
 
you tube video of... Making PCB for the FTDI Vinculum 2 Chip 
http://youtu.be/qK6DKbzm024
If you interested in my youtube videos please subscribe.  


>________________________________
>From: John Dammeyer <johnd@...>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:39 AM
>Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
>
>
> 
>   
> 
>Tom,
>
>What sort of material are you printing onto?  It looks like velum in the 
>video.  Is it dark enough as printed from the laser printer or are you 
>using an inkjet?
>
>John
>
>Automation Artisans Inc.
>http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
>Ph. 1 250 544 4950
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
>On Behalf Of Tom Biery
>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:54 AM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
>
>Larry,  I have been getting my presensitized PCB material from the company 
>Circuit Specialists I believe they are located in Arizona, there material 
>is fresh and is delivered in about one week.  Their website is .... 
>http://www.circuitspecialists.com/
>Usually I get the 4.6" x 6.6" size double sided boards 
>http://www.circuitspecialists.com/gd114.html and then trim them down to 
>3.3"'4.6" to match the size that eagle software allows.  Are you offereing 
>boards like that?
>I use the UV exposure process and it seems to be working for me alright 
>here is a you tube video of... Making PCB for the FTDI Vinculum 2 Chip
>http://youtu.be/qK6DKbzm024
>If you interested in my youtube videos please subscribe.  If you are going 
>to make up a bunch of double sided positive photoresist boards I would 
>give some a try.  Let me know.  Tom
>
>From: Larry Battraw <lbattraw@... <mailto:lbattraw%40gmail.com> >
>>To: homebrew_pcbs <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>><mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> >
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:32 AM
>>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
>>takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
>>last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas). One thing I
>>have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain 
>>the
>>raw materials for our projects. In some cases (Dry film resists) it 
>>either
>>takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
>>the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time 
>>(Think'n
>>Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express 
>>shipping).
>>There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
>>the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is 
>>problematic.
>>A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by 
>>the
>>name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist. It worked very well, was very
>>reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
>>eBay. Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
>>services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
>>(i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically). It is now
>>impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based 
>>photoresist
>>around. I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
>>health concerns.
>>
>>What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own 
>>materials,
>>where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, 
>>in
>>this case photo-imaging materials. I know there has been a lot of
>>experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, 
>>high-quality
>>boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards. I'm sure some 
>>people
>>will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
>>coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), 
>>and
>>the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, 
>>especially
>>after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)
>>
>>Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
>>already placed an order which should be here in a couple days. I'd like 
>>to
>>do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the 
>>minimum
>>order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
>>available payment methods. I'd like to think that we can use enough of 
>>the
>>purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 
>>6
>>months, similar for dry-film). I would suggest charging actual cost plus 
>>a
>>small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?). I
>>want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a 
>>lot
>>of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality. 
>>The
>>cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded 
>>envelope
>>or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000). If it's popular enough, I could offer
>>additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.
>>
>>I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
>>from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials 
>>at
>>near-cost, quickly. However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
>>can remember) I figured I could at least start the process. I have to add
>>some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business 
>>days
>>of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping 
>>items
>>there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also 
>>will
>>not even try to ship an order. Likewise, if I find out after the order 
>>has
>>been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the 
>>right
>>to refuse/refund orders. Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
>>won't work with people who can't be polite. If there are unusual
>>circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will 
>>charge
>>a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
>>materials can be re-used and are not damaged). And finally, I reserve the
>>right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.
>>
>>This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize 
>>for
>>all the disclaimers. I don't want to be sued or even given a bad 
>>reputation
>>because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
>>damaged, and the person is upset.
>>
>>I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the 
>>interest
>>levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
>>Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
>>offered. I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
>>they're big and fairly reliable) for payment. Materials could either be
>>ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
>>interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
>>world. I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
>>like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
>>either put a stop to it or raise prices. It may be necessary to go the 
>>eBay
>>route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it. Let
>>me know!
>>
>>Kind regards-
>>Larry Battraw
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>   
>      
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi  Mike,

The AQ3000 product is a water-based photo-resist.  It can be spin or
roller-coated onto a board (And then dried), at which point it can be
exposed using artwork/UV light like a typical presensitized board.  The
whole point is to avoid having to modify a printer for direct prints.

Regards,
Larry
On Oct 12, 2011 12:41 AM, "Michael" <Patriot121@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tom,

I used to live in AZ and actually visited Circuit Specialists frequently.  I
don't have a problem with presensitized boards per se except for the fact
that I tend to make complex boards with lots of mistakes-- I'll admit to
also having a habit of frequent tweaks as well.  Presensitized boards just
don't make sense for me, especially when I purchased 20 _pounds_ of blank
PCB boards in many handy shapes, specifically for use with applied
photoresists.  They were very cheap per board (A few cents each) in that
form, and when you use a hydrochloric-acid-based etchant and bulk materials
for photoresist/artwork/ink the cost is very low.  I've also enjoyed the
challenge of rolling my own process from end-to-end without the need to buy
extra stuff per job.  That, and I'm always assured of the freshness of my
resists since I'm the one applying them and I know the age of the materials.

My typical work flow will be to use gEDA to create a schematic/PCB layout,
then to print and image the artwork onto a sensitized board, followed by
developing.  At that point I'll check the results for minimum trace
width/spacing, fit and location of components to make sure things aren't too
close together, or if I haven't goofed up a footprint.  If everything looks
good I etch, otherwise I strip and recoat the board and by the time I'm
ready for another run it's dry/fixated and ready for anothering imaging
step.  I may also find a mistake in the schematic and so the layout will
change accordingly.  I may run through 5 strip-reimage steps before I
finally etch with that "perfect" result where all the features are clear,
it's not over/under-exposed, etc.

Regards,
Larry

Regards,
Larry
On Oct 11, 2011 9:54 AM, "Tom Biery" <judsquare@...> wrote:
>
> Larry,  I have been getting my presensitized PCB material from the company
Circuit Specialists I believe they are located in Arizona, there material is
fresh and is delivered in about one week.  Their website is ....
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/
> Usually I get the 4.6" x 6.6" size double sided boards
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/gd114.html and then trim them down to
3.3"'4.6" to match the size that eagle software allows.  Are you offereing
boards like that?
> I use the UV exposure process and it seems to be working for me alright
here is a you tube video of... Making PCB for the FTDI Vinculum 2 Chip
> http://youtu.be/qK6DKbzm024
> If you interested in my youtube videos please subscribe.  If you are going
to make up a bunch of double sided positive photoresist boards I would give
some a try.  Let me know.  Tom
>
>
> From: Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...>
>>To: homebrew_pcbs <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:32 AM
>>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
>>takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
>>last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas). One thing I
>>have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain the
>>raw materials for our projects. In some cases (Dry film resists) it either
>>takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
>>the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time
(Think'n
>>Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express shipping).
>>There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
>>the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is problematic.
>>A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by the
>>name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist. It worked very well, was very
>>reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
>>eBay. Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
>>services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
>>(i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically). It is now
>>impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based
photoresist
>>around. I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
>>health concerns.
>>
>>What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own
materials,
>>where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material,
in
>>this case photo-imaging materials. I know there has been a lot of
>>experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, high-quality
>>boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards. I'm sure some
people
>>will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
>>coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), and
>>the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, especially
>>after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)
>>
>>Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
>>already placed an order which should be here in a couple days. I'd like to
>>do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the
minimum
>>order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
>>available payment methods. I'd like to think that we can use enough of the
>>purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is
6
>>months, similar for dry-film). I would suggest charging actual cost plus a
>>small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?). I
>>want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a lot
>>of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality. The
>>cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded envelope
>>or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000). If it's popular enough, I could offer
>>additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.
>>
>>I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
>>from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials
at
>>near-cost, quickly. However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
>>can remember) I figured I could at least start the process. I have to add
>>some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business
days
>>of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping
items
>>there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also
will
>>not even try to ship an order. Likewise, if I find out after the order has
>>been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the
right
>>to refuse/refund orders. Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
>>won't work with people who can't be polite. If there are unusual
>>circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will
charge
>>a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
>>materials can be re-used and are not damaged). And finally, I reserve the
>>right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.
>>
>>This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize
for
>>all the disclaimers. I don't want to be sued or even given a bad
reputation
>>because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
>>damaged, and the person is upset.
>>
>>I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the
interest
>>levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
>>Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
>>offered. I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
>>they're big and fairly reliable) for payment. Materials could either be
>>ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
>>interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
>>world. I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
>>like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
>>either put a stop to it or raise prices. It may be necessary to go the
eBay
>>route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it. Let
>>me know!
>>
>>Kind regards-
>>Larry Battraw
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry,

How do you create the negative?

Bertho

From: Larry Battraw   Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 01:44



Hi Tom,

I used to live in AZ and actually visited Circuit Specialists frequently. I
don't have a problem with presensitized boards per se except for the fact
that I tend to make complex boards with lots of mistakes-- I'll admit to
also having a habit of frequent tweaks as well. Presensitized boards just
don't make sense for me, especially when I purchased 20 _pounds_ of blank
PCB boards in many handy shapes, specifically for use with applied
photoresists. They were very cheap per board (A few cents each) in that
form, and when you use a hydrochloric-acid-based etchant and bulk materials
for photoresist/artwork/ink the cost is very low. I've also enjoyed the
challenge of rolling my own process from end-to-end without the need to buy
extra stuff per job. That, and I'm always assured of the freshness of my
resists since I'm the one applying them and I know the age of the materials.

My typical work flow will be to use gEDA to create a schematic/PCB layout,
then to print and image the artwork onto a sensitized board, followed by
developing. At that point I'll check the results for minimum trace
width/spacing, fit and location of components to make sure things aren't too
close together, or if I haven't goofed up a footprint. If everything looks
good I etch, otherwise I strip and recoat the board and by the time I'm
ready for another run it's dry/fixated and ready for anothering imaging
step. I may also find a mistake in the schematic and so the layout will
change accordingly. I may run through 5 strip-reimage steps before I
finally etch with that "perfect" result where all the features are clear,
it's not over/under-exposed, etc.

Regards,
Larry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

JetStar transparencies used for silk screen artwork are what I use
primarily, printed on an Epson Artisan 810.  I then seal the artwork against
the board for gap elimination in a vacuum heat-sealed bag (FoodSaver).

Regards,
Larry
On Oct 12, 2011 4:29 AM, "Boman33" <boman33@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Larry for a fast reply.
Since it is negative photo resist how do you create the negative image?
Normally the PCB programs gives a positive image (showing traces) but it
needs to be reversed before using with negative artwork.
I a very long time ago used to use Kodak's KPR but then switched to
pre-coated positive resist.
I have a long time ago made reversing copies but what do you do today?

It is a clever idea to use the FoodSaver vacuum bags.
Bertho
 =======================================

From: Larry Battraw   Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 07:04
JetStar transparencies used for silk screen artwork are what I use
primarily, printed on an Epson Artisan 810. I then seal the artwork against
the board for gap elimination in a vacuum heat-sealed bag (FoodSaver).

Regards,
Larry

Well shoot .... is the idea for direct print dead? I suppose it can't be hard up come up with a UV exposure bed.

Mike KC7NOA 

To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

From: lbattraw@...
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 01:28:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials














 



  


    
      
      
      Hi  Mike,



The AQ3000 product is a water-based photo-resist.  It can be spin or

roller-coated onto a board (And then dried), at which point it can be

exposed using artwork/UV light like a typical presensitized board.  The

whole point is to avoid having to modify a printer for direct prints.



Regards,

Larry

On Oct 12, 2011 12:41 AM, "Michael" <Patriot121@...> wrote:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






    
     

    
    






  






 		 	   		  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry
I got some AQ3000 in Feb of 2010.  Genesis had it in quarts on Ebay and I paid about $81 with shipping. You may want to call them and see if they would put a quart up on Ebay buy it now.

At the time I attempted to sell part the quart in 4oz qty for my cost plus shipping -- got no takers. 

I talked with one of the engineers at Genesis about the 6 month shelf life and he told me it was much better than that but for commercial uses had it set at 6 months. He wouldn't say how long it would last but I keep it in the refrigerator like I did the Shipley AZ111 I used years ago.  It was still good after 10 years.  I haven't used the AQ3000 lately, guess I should test it one of these days.

I spin coat it on boards then bake at 180F till hard.  Use potassium or sodium carbonate to deveolope.  I did find I needed to thin it a little with water to get a better spin coat. It's fairly sensitive and Zoltan was able to immage it with his direct UV laser writer with stunning resolution.

Just too many projects and not enought time or money.

Craig





--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:

>
> Hi All,
> 
> I've been lurking on this list for some time and seen a lot of different
> takes on making PCBs, whether it's toner-transfer, direct-print via
> last/inkjet, or UV-exposed resist (And a few stranger ideas).  One thing I
> have noticed is that it is sometimes difficult or impossible to obtain the
> raw materials for our projects.  In some cases (Dry film resists) it either
> takes forever (2 weeks to over a 3 months!) to get some from Hong Kong or
> the Czech Republic (via eBay), or you have to buy a lot at one time (Think'n
> Tinker 100-foot rolls for example, at $150+ w/mandatory express shipping).
> There are exceptions, but finding them and having any idea of how "fresh"
> the film is (Which is important to get reasonable results) is problematic.
> A couple years ago a company called Genesis MT sold a great product by the
> name of AQ-3000 water-based photoresist.  It worked very well, was very
> reasonable for the amount you got for the price, and was available via
> eBay.  Recently I found they had been acquired by another "professional
> services"-type company that requires large, company purchases of anything
> (i.e. ask for a quote, and no way to buy electronically).  It is now
> impossible to get any of this great resist, the only water-based photoresist
> around.  I don't consider the VOC-based resists as viable for use due to
> health concerns.
> 
> What I propose is that we as a group of hobbyists provide our own materials,
> where some of us will volunteer to be a source for a particular material, in
> this case photo-imaging materials.  I know there has been a lot of
> experimentation with direct/transfer tech but for repeatable, high-quality
> boards you really can't beat photoresist-based boards.  I'm sure some people
> will differ with me but I've read too much about problems with board
> coatings, pre/post-heating, different inks (Sometimes very expensive), and
> the challenges modifying inkjet printers to be very interested, especially
> after I ruined a perfectly good printer trying it myself :-)
> 
> Naturally I am volunteering for the dry film photoresist, since I have
> already placed an order which should be here in a couple days.  I'd like to
> do the same for the Genesis AQ3000, although I have to find out the minimum
> order quantity (Apparently they make up a fresh batch for each order) and
> available payment methods.  I'd like to think that we can use enough of the
> purchased products to have them avoid going bad (Shelf life for AQ3000 is 6
> months, similar for dry-film).  I would suggest charging actual cost plus a
> small surcharge to cover gas and time spent (Maybe $3.00 per order?).  I
> want to make it possible for us to use high-quality products without a lot
> of delay or uncertainty/experimentation in regards to product quality.  The
> cost would include cost of postage plus mailing materials (Padded envelope
> or plastic bottle+box for AQ3000).  If it's popular enough, I could offer
> additional things like drill bits, PCB blanks, etc.
> 
> I am certainly not adverse to having someone else take all the "business"
> from me, as the whole point of this exercise is to provide the materials at
> near-cost, quickly.  However, since nobody else has suggested this (That I
> can remember) I figured I could at least start the process.  I have to add
> some disclaimers here: I reserve the right to ship within 2-3 business days
> of a prepaid order, and if there are unusual restrictions on shipping items
> there (i.e. countries that have export regulations for the USA) I also will
> not even try to ship an order.  Likewise, if I find out after the order has
> been placed it's going to be a lot of hassle to ship to I reserve the right
> to refuse/refund orders.  Ditto for people who piss me off, sorry, I just
> won't work with people who can't be polite.  If there are unusual
> circumstances like having a package refused and returned I also will charge
> a fee based on the time spent plus shipping/materials (Assuming the PCB
> materials can be re-used and are not damaged).  And finally, I reserve the
> right to halt the service at any time, refunding any outstanding orders.
> 
> This whole idea is an experiment in supply and demand and so I apologize for
> all the disclaimers.  I don't want to be sued or even given a bad reputation
> because I had a package returned from Elbonia after being opened and
> damaged, and the person is upset.
> 
> I apologize for the length of this email, but I'd like to gauge the interest
> levels (And potential orders) from people in the group and elsewhere.
> Please email me if you're interested, and what you would like to see
> offered.  I would probably accept PayPal (Yes, they aren't wonderful but
> they're big and fairly reliable) for payment.  Materials could either be
> ordered direct from me or I could post auctions on eBay, but I'm more
> interested in serving the community we have here rather than the entire
> world.  I have a day job and this is just a way to benefit a group of
> like-minded people, so it can't be too much of a hassle or I will need to
> either put a stop to it or raise prices.  It may be necessary to go the eBay
> route just to avoid having materials expire but I'd like to avoid it.  Let
> me know!
> 
> 
> Kind regards-
> Larry Battraw
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:32 PM, designer_craig <cs6061@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Larry
> I got some AQ3000 in Feb of 2010. Genesis had it in quarts on Ebay and I paid about $81 with shipping. You may want to call them and see if they would put a quart up on Ebay buy it now.
>
> At the time I attempted to sell part the quart in 4oz qty for my cost plus shipping -- got no takers.

I contacted them last week about this but they refuse to sell quart
sizes at all since apparently they're concerned about shelf life.
They require a commitment for a certain amount to be used over a
period of time (Likely a large amount) to deal with you.  It was very
discouraging, going from a great eBay-based model to a proprietary,
difficult to work with process that marginalizes all but the larger
users.


> I talked with one of the engineers at Genesis about the 6 month shelf life and he told me it was much better than that but for commercial uses had it set at 6 months. He wouldn't say how long it would last but I keep it in the refrigerator like I did the Shipley AZ111 I used years ago. It was still good after 10 years. I haven't used the AQ3000 lately, guess I should test it one of these days.


As far as shelf life goes I may have been fine with mine which was a
couple years old except for the fact it got frozen in my refrigerator
by accident.  It caused the solids in the solution to separate into a
block of blue gummy stuff and watery blue liquid.  I really wish I had
some more but I'm afraid that without a group buy-in it's not
possible.

>
> I spin coat it on boards then bake at 180F till hard. Use potassium or sodium carbonate to deveolope. I did find I needed to thin it a little with water to get a better spin coat. It's fairly sensitive and Zoltan was able to immage it with his direct UV laser writer with stunning resolution.
>
> Just too many projects and not enought time or money.
>
> Craig

I used to spin-coat it as well and it worked perfectly most of the
time.  Thinning it was definitely a necessity to avoid having it too
thick in places.


Regards,
Larry

Any luck Larry?


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:

>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:32 PM, designer_craig <cs6061@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Larry
> > I got some AQ3000 in Feb of 2010. Genesis had it in quarts on Ebay and I paid about $81 with shipping. You may want to call them and see if they would put a quart up on Ebay buy it now.
> >
> > At the time I attempted to sell part the quart in 4oz qty for my cost plus shipping -- got no takers.
> 
> I contacted them last week about this but they refuse to sell quart
> sizes at all since apparently they're concerned about shelf life.
> They require a commitment for a certain amount to be used over a
> period of time (Likely a large amount) to deal with you.  It was very
> discouraging, going from a great eBay-based model to a proprietary,
> difficult to work with process that marginalizes all but the larger
> users.
> 
> 
> > I talked with one of the engineers at Genesis about the 6 month shelf life and he told me it was much better than that but for commercial uses had it set at 6 months. He wouldn't say how long it would last but I keep it in the refrigerator like I did the Shipley AZ111 I used years ago. It was still good after 10 years. I haven't used the AQ3000 lately, guess I should test it one of these days.
> 
> 
> As far as shelf life goes I may have been fine with mine which was a
> couple years old except for the fact it got frozen in my refrigerator
> by accident.  It caused the solids in the solution to separate into a
> block of blue gummy stuff and watery blue liquid.  I really wish I had
> some more but I'm afraid that without a group buy-in it's not
> possible.
> 
> >
> > I spin coat it on boards then bake at 180F till hard. Use potassium or sodium carbonate to deveolope. I did find I needed to thin it a little with water to get a better spin coat. It's fairly sensitive and Zoltan was able to immage it with his direct UV laser writer with stunning resolution.
> >
> > Just too many projects and not enought time or money.
> >
> > Craig
> 
> I used to spin-coat it as well and it worked perfectly most of the
> time.  Thinning it was definitely a necessity to avoid having it too
> thick in places.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Larry
>

Hi Michael,

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Michael <Patriot121@...> wrote:
>
>
> Any luck Larry?


I've had a couple people contact me about purchasing the dry-film
resist that I currently have for sale but only one for the AQ3000
liquid photoresist.  Until we can get together around 20 people for
group buy on the AQ3000 it just isn't realistic.  I certainly don't
want 20 kg of resist all to my self :-)  It's too bad because it
seemed like a lot less hassle to coat up a bunch of boards with it
since I would spray it on with an airbrush while spinning, then set it
aside it dry.  Total time invested per board, about a minute or two.
The dry-film resist is more time intensive since you really need to
spray the board down with water to allow repositioning and bubble
elimination after you take the time to cut the resist down to size,
remove the cover sheet, and then run through the laminator once or
twice, depending on the temperature you use.  Higher temperatures
allow a single pass but risk producing bubbles.  The resist is 12
inches wide so it's unlikely that you'll be coating any boards that
actually match up in width and thus only require a single trim of the
resist to fit.

At any rate I am selling the dry-film resist for $1.60 a foot with a
minimum order of 5 feet, plus $7 shipping which covers postage and a
cardboard shipping tube.  As mentioned the resist is a foot wide so
it's a fair amount for the money.

Regards,
Larry

>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:32 PM, designer_craig <cs6061@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > I got some AQ3000 in Feb of 2010. Genesis had it in quarts on Ebay and I paid about $81 with shipping. You may want to call them and see if they would put a quart up on Ebay buy it now.
> > >
> > > At the time I attempted to sell part the quart in 4oz qty for my cost plus shipping -- got no takers.
> >
> > I contacted them last week about this but they refuse to sell quart
> > sizes at all since apparently they're concerned about shelf life.
> > They require a commitment for a certain amount to be used over a
> > period of time (Likely a large amount) to deal with you.  It was very
> > discouraging, going from a great eBay-based model to a proprietary,
> > difficult to work with process that marginalizes all but the larger
> > users.
> >
> >
> > > I talked with one of the engineers at Genesis about the 6 month shelf life and he told me it was much better than that but for commercial uses had it set at 6 months. He wouldn't say how long it would last but I keep it in the refrigerator like I did the Shipley AZ111 I used years ago. It was still good after 10 years. I haven't used the AQ3000 lately, guess I should test it one of these days.
> >
> >
> > As far as shelf life goes I may have been fine with mine which was a
> > couple years old except for the fact it got frozen in my refrigerator
> > by accident.  It caused the solids in the solution to separate into a
> > block of blue gummy stuff and watery blue liquid.  I really wish I had
> > some more but I'm afraid that without a group buy-in it's not
> > possible.
> >
> > >
> > > I spin coat it on boards then bake at 180F till hard. Use potassium or sodium carbonate to deveolope. I did find I needed to thin it a little with water to get a better spin coat. It's fairly sensitive and Zoltan was able to immage it with his direct UV laser writer with stunning resolution.
> > >
> > > Just too many projects and not enought time or money.
> > >
> > > Craig
> >
> > I used to spin-coat it as well and it worked perfectly most of the
> > time. Thinning it was definitely a necessity to avoid having it too
> > thick in places.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Larry
> >
>
>

Larry,

Where and how are you selling the dry-film, do you have a web site. And do
you accept Paypal?

Regards,
Eldon

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 03:03, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> At any rate I am selling the dry-film resist for $1.60 a foot with a
> minimum order of 5 feet, plus $7 shipping which covers postage and a
> cardboard shipping tube. As mentioned the resist is a foot wide so
> it's a fair amount for the money.
>
> Regards,
> Larry
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> At any rate I am selling the dry-film resist for $1.60 a foot with a
> minimum order of 5 feet, plus $7 shipping which covers postage and a
> cardboard shipping tube.  As mentioned the resist is a foot wide so
> it's a fair amount for the money.
> 
> Regards,
> Larry
> 

Mouser  Sells  MG Chemical 416DFR-5  12" x 5'  for 17.95 + Shipping
and  416DFR-500  12" x 500' for $480.00  + Shipping   But they don't stock the 500' roll, it is special order 5 week lead time.

So you are about half the price of Mouser.


Ben

Hi Eldon,

I'm afraid I don't have anything as organized as a website.  I am providing
this as a service to the homebrew PCB community and really don't want to go
into the business of selling it to random buyers since I don't make
anything off of the sales, hence the low price.  I accept PayPal and am
located in NC, for reference.  I've had one person buy from me who seemed
satisfied and it looks like a couple others are interested now, which is
funny since it's been a while since I posted about the availability of the
stuff.

For anyone who's interested and wants a lot of the stuff (50, 100, 250, or
500-foot rolls) I get mine from Think & Tinker in AZ:
http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/lamsup.htm
They sell the resist, solder mask, and other supplies including roll
laminators in bulk quantities.  I've always ordered the 100 foot rolls
since the price difference between 50 and 100 feet is rather small
considering it's twice the amount of material.  I would mention that they
require "express shipping" for the photoresist since I suppose they don't
want complaints about resist that has been exposed to too much heat for too
long.  I've never really had a problem with it expiring unless it's more
than a couple years old, but then I keep mine in the refrigerator
(triple-bagged due to the odd smell).  I paid about $160 for 100 feet
including the 2-day shipping they required (Which was rather expensive),
hence my price to you all.

I figure we all benefit from the service I provide since it keeps us both
supplied with fresh resist and marginally compensates me for the time spent
shipping it out.  I've never managed to go through a 100-foot roll before
and so I figure between a few orders here and there and my own usage it
won't go to waste.  As the resist ages it tends to become less sensitive
and have less contrast, making good artwork more critical.  Keeping it
refrigerated and sealed helps immensely to keep aging to a minimum.

Regards,
Larry

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Eldon Brown <eldonb46@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Larry,
>
> Where and how are you selling the dry-film, do you have a web site. And do
> you accept Paypal?
>
> Regards,
> Eldon
>
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 03:03, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> >
> > At any rate I am selling the dry-film resist for $1.60 a foot with a
> > minimum order of 5 feet, plus $7 shipping which covers postage and a
> > cardboard shipping tube. As mentioned the resist is a foot wide so
> > it's a fair amount for the money.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for your efforts ...

Im wondering if you go through rigorous testing of your UV exposures bed?

Keeping the stuff cold is no problem ... I have a small chest fridge for solder paste that's kept just above freezing already.

Mike KC7NOA 

> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> From: lbattraw@...
> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:42:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: The case for crowd-sourced PCB materials
> 
> Hi Eldon,
> 
> I'm afraid I don't have anything as organized as a website.  I am providing
> this as a service to the homebrew PCB community and really don't want to go
> into the business of selling it to random buyers since I don't make
> anything off of the sales, hence the low price.  I accept PayPal and am
> located in NC, for reference.  I've had one person buy from me who seemed
> satisfied and it looks like a couple others are interested now, which is
> funny since it's been a while since I posted about the availability of the
> stuff.
> 
> For anyone who's interested and wants a lot of the stuff (50, 100, 250, or
> 500-foot rolls) I get mine from Think & Tinker in AZ:
> http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/lamsup.htm
> They sell the resist, solder mask, and other supplies including roll
> laminators in bulk quantities.  I've always ordered the 100 foot rolls
> since the price difference between 50 and 100 feet is rather small
> considering it's twice the amount of material.  I would mention that they
> require "express shipping" for the photoresist since I suppose they don't
> want complaints about resist that has been exposed to too much heat for too
> long.  I've never really had a problem with it expiring unless it's more
> than a couple years old, but then I keep mine in the refrigerator
> (triple-bagged due to the odd smell).  I paid about $160 for 100 feet
> including the 2-day shipping they required (Which was rather expensive),
> hence my price to you all.
> 
> I figure we all benefit from the service I provide since it keeps us both
> supplied with fresh resist and marginally compensates me for the time spent
> shipping it out.  I've never managed to go through a 100-foot roll before
> and so I figure between a few orders here and there and my own usage it
> won't go to waste.  As the resist ages it tends to become less sensitive
> and have less contrast, making good artwork more critical.  Keeping it
> refrigerated and sealed helps immensely to keep aging to a minimum.
> 
> Regards,
> Larry
> 
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Eldon Brown <eldonb46@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > Where and how are you selling the dry-film, do you have a web site. And do
> > you accept Paypal?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eldon
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 03:03, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At any rate I am selling the dry-film resist for $1.60 a foot with a
> > > minimum order of 5 feet, plus $7 shipping which covers postage and a
> > > cardboard shipping tube. As mentioned the resist is a foot wide so
> > > it's a fair amount for the money.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
 		 	   		  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mike,

Not sure what you mean by rigorous testing.  I've done a fair amount of
tests to zero in the best exposure time for the combination of lights,
distance, and artwork I use.  I'm not sure it would be very useful to
anyone else since I built my own setup and it will likely vary depending on
your light source and artwork medium.  I use two 40W U-shaped UV "bug
lights" from Home Depot, mounted side by side at 8 inches from my board.
It takes about 4.5 minutes to get a good exposure.  It's not really ideal
since the lights are fairly narrow (I really would like to have 4 of them
but haven't got around to it) but it works for my purposes.  I affix my
inkjet-printed red (Black prints out poorly on my transparencies) artwork
to the board in those vacuum kitchen sealer bags to get a very tight
interface since I don't have the room for a full-sized vacuum bed.

Regards,
Larry

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:53 AM, MIKE DURKIN <Patriot121@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thank you for your efforts ...
>
> Im wondering if you go through rigorous testing of your UV exposures bed?
>
> Keeping the stuff cold is no problem ... I have a small chest fridge for
> solder paste that's kept just above freezing already.
>
>
> Mike KC7NOA
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry,

Where are you in NC? I'm in Angier (about 30 minutes south of Raleigh).

Andy

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Eldon,
> 
> I'm afraid I don't have anything as organized as a website.  I am providing
> this as a service to the homebrew PCB community and really don't want to go
> into the business of selling it to random buyers since I don't make
> anything off of the sales, hence the low price.  I accept PayPal and am
> located in NC, for reference.  I've had one person buy from me who seemed
> satisfied and it looks like a couple others are interested now, which is
> funny since it's been a while since I posted about the availability of the
> stuff.
> 
> For anyone who's interested and wants a lot of the stuff (50, 100, 250, or
> 500-foot rolls) I get mine from Think & Tinker in AZ:
> http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/lamsup.htm
> They sell the resist, solder mask, and other supplies including roll
> laminators in bulk quantities.  I've always ordered the 100 foot rolls
> since the price difference between 50 and 100 feet is rather small
> considering it's twice the amount of material.  I would mention that they
> require "express shipping" for the photoresist since I suppose they don't
> want complaints about resist that has been exposed to too much heat for too
> long.  I've never really had a problem with it expiring unless it's more
> than a couple years old, but then I keep mine in the refrigerator
> (triple-bagged due to the odd smell).  I paid about $160 for 100 feet
> including the 2-day shipping they required (Which was rather expensive),
> hence my price to you all.
> 
> I figure we all benefit from the service I provide since it keeps us both
> supplied with fresh resist and marginally compensates me for the time spent
> shipping it out.  I've never managed to go through a 100-foot roll before
> and so I figure between a few orders here and there and my own usage it
> won't go to waste.  As the resist ages it tends to become less sensitive
> and have less contrast, making good artwork more critical.  Keeping it
> refrigerated and sealed helps immensely to keep aging to a minimum.
> 
> Regards,
> Larry
> 
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Eldon Brown <eldonb46@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > Where and how are you selling the dry-film, do you have a web site. And do
> > you accept Paypal?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eldon
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 03:03, Larry Battraw <lbattraw@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At any rate I am selling the dry-film resist for $1.60 a foot with a
> > > minimum order of 5 feet, plus $7 shipping which covers postage and a
> > > cardboard shipping tube. As mentioned the resist is a foot wide so
> > > it's a fair amount for the money.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Larry,

Thanks you for your effort and offer.

A while ago I was doing artwork testing for best resolution and print
density and I had a post with resolution targets.  I never got finished,
work is interfering with my hobbies...

What artwork material and printer/ink are you using and what is your
practical trace size?

Bertho

==================================

From Larry Battraw   Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 07:44
Hi Mike,

Not sure what you mean by rigorous testing. I've done a fair amount of
tests to zero in the best exposure time for the combination of lights,
distance, and artwork I use. I'm not sure it would be very useful to
anyone else since I built my own setup and it will likely vary depending on
your light source and artwork medium. I use two 40W U-shaped UV "bug
lights" from Home Depot, mounted side by side at 8 inches from my board.
It takes about 4.5 minutes to get a good exposure. It's not really ideal
since the lights are fairly narrow (I really would like to have 4 of them
but haven't got around to it) but it works for my purposes. I affix my
inkjet-printed red (Black prints out poorly on my transparencies) artwork
to the board in those vacuum kitchen sealer bags to get a very tight
interface since I don't have the room for a full-sized vacuum bed.
Regards,
Larry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Andrew <a_wake@...> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> Where are you in NC? I'm in Angier (about 30 minutes south of Raleigh).
>
> Andy
>
>

Hi Andy,

I'm in Durham.

Larry

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Boman33 <boman33@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Thanks you for your effort and offer.
>
> A while ago I was doing artwork testing for best resolution and print
> density and I had a post with resolution targets. I never got finished,
> work is interfering with my hobbies...
>
> What artwork material and printer/ink are you using and what is your
> practical trace size?
>
> Bertho

Hi Berto,

I use artwork generated from gEDA (on Linux), which I then import as a
Postscript file into Inkscape to tweak the color of the negative gEDA
puts out and the dimensions of the filled area.  I'm experimenting
with some new transparency material from this place:
http://www.westixonline.com/water-proof-inkjet-film-for-screen-printers.html
 It's billed as waterproof which I take to mean it dries instantly,
which it does seem to do.  You get 100 sheets for about $45, which is
a lot better than some places.  The last film I ordered was not
waterproof and took quite of while with gentle heat to avoid smearing.
 I use an Epson Artison 810 which is brain-damaged in that it will not
accept transparency material without a backing sheet of normal paper.
Other than that it does a great job at 5760x2880 (I believe), printing
red (Magenta+Yellow) MISPro ink which does a wonderful job of giving a
very even, solid coverage to filled areas without pooling. Minimum
feature size is somewhere around 8/8, although if you collaminated
your light source better than mine you could probably do better.  It's
certainly not a limitation of the printer or the dry film which is
great, properly laminated.

Regards,
Larry

Larry,

Thanks for the info.

Your brain dead Printer:  I think the photo sensor has trouble seeing the
transparent film.  I have seen some transparences with a white thin strip of
paper at the leading edge to trigger the sensor.  You might just need a
small sticker if placed at the correct spot.

 

Here is the link to the test prints if you get carried away testing.

http://www.vinland.com/USAF-1951.html

Bertho

==============================

From: Larry Battraw    Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 19:30



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Boman33 <boman33@...
<mailto:boman33%40vinland.com> > wrote:
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Thanks you for your effort and offer.
>
> A while ago I was doing artwork testing for best resolution and print
> density and I had a post with resolution targets. I never got finished,
> work is interfering with my hobbies...
>
> What artwork material and printer/ink are you using and what is your
> practical trace size?
>
> Bertho

Hi Berto,

I use artwork generated from gEDA (on Linux), which I then import as a
Postscript file into Inkscape to tweak the color of the negative gEDA
puts out and the dimensions of the filled area. I'm experimenting
with some new transparency material from this place:
http://www.westixonline.com/water-proof-inkjet-film-for-screen-printers.html
It's billed as waterproof which I take to mean it dries instantly,
which it does seem to do. You get 100 sheets for about $45, which is
a lot better than some places. The last film I ordered was not
waterproof and took quite of while with gentle heat to avoid smearing.
I use an Epson Artison 810 which is brain-damaged in that it will not
accept transparency material without a backing sheet of normal paper.
Other than that it does a great job at 5760x2880 (I believe), printing
red (Magenta+Yellow) MISPro ink which does a wonderful job of giving a
very even, solid coverage to filled areas without pooling. Minimum
feature size is somewhere around 8/8, although if you collaminated
your light source better than mine you could probably do better. It's
certainly not a limitation of the printer or the dry film which is
great, properly laminated.

Regards,
Larry



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]