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2011-08-13 by freespamfree
I will be etching my first board in the next few weeks. What I want to know is once I mix the muriatic acid & hydrogen peroxide, what is the best container to store it in; I know to not use anything metal. I was thinking of a container that is water tight once it is closed but I don't know of anything that will work easily enough.
2011-08-13 by Jonathan Gordon
I use a tomato sauce container. It's glass and the top seals pretty well. I also know someone who uses a tupperware container which is conveniently also the tub they do the etching in. -- ------------------------ Jonathan Gordon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-08-13 by kabowers@NorthState.net
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:08:41 -0000, you wrote: >I will be etching my first board in the next few weeks. What I want to know is once I mix the muriatic acid & hydrogen peroxide, what is the best container to store it in; I know to not use anything metal. I was thinking of a container that is water tight once it is closed but I don't know of anything that will work easily enough. > > > Watch the seals on food containers. I had a WalMart covered plastic tray that I used with FeCl (storage and etching tray) for several years before switching to over to muratic acid and H202; the seals turned to "chalk" in a couple of months. I've been using plastic ketchup bottles as storage for the last couple of years. Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
2011-08-14 by Mike Bushroe
I checked the plastic recycling codes on the Muriatic Acid jug and the Hydrogenperoxide bottles. Bother were made of recycle code 2 HDPE. Since milk juggs have the same material and recycle codes, I use washed out gallon Milk jugs to store the mix. No problems in over a year. Mike -- Burn the Land, Boil the Sea, You can't take the SKY from me! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-08-14 by Bob Headrick
I would be very careful using milk jugs. I am on a well and have 20 or so milk jugs of water in the garage to use if the power fails for washing, flushing toilets, etc. Regularly I find one of them is only half full, leaking from the seams. Maybe only a 10%/year failure, but I would hate to have the etchant oozing out. I would not use these to store something I cared about keeping in the container.. - Bob Headrick
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bushroe Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 2:54 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Storing Muriatic Acid & Hydrogen peroxide I checked the plastic recycling codes on the Muriatic Acid jug and the Hydrogenperoxide bottles. Bother were made of recycle code 2 HDPE. Since milk juggs have the same material and recycle codes, I use washed out gallon Milk jugs to store the mix. No problems in over a year. Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-08-15 by kabowers@NorthState.net
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:31:20 -0700, you wrote: >I would be very careful using milk jugs. I am on a well and have 20 or so >milk jugs of water in the garage to use if the power fails for washing, >flushing toilets, etc. > > > >Regularly I find one of them is only half full, leaking from the seams. >Maybe only a 10%/year failure, but I would hate to have the etchant oozing >out. > > > >I would not use these to store something I cared about keeping in the >container.. > > > >- Bob Headrick > I'll second Bob's experience. I suspect the plastic has been "greened down" to break down in landfills. The quality/durability of the plastic seems to have deteriated greatly in the last few years. They seem to be especially sensitive to sunlight. Do you do your own oil changes? The 5-quart oil containers seem to be made of better stuff. Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
2011-08-15 by Jim
I use glass Mason canning jars. They come with a lid and ring but you can buy plastic screw on lids. Has worked for me for 2 years. Jim KI6MZ
On 8/14/2011 7:20 PM, kabowers@... wrote: > On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:31:20 -0700, you wrote: > >> I would be very careful using milk jugs. I am on a well and have 20 or so >> milk jugs of water in the garage to use if the power fails for washing, >> flushing toilets, etc. >> >> >> >> Regularly I find one of them is only half full, leaking from the seams. >> Maybe only a 10%/year failure, but I would hate to have the etchant oozing >> out. >> >> >> >> I would not use these to store something I cared about keeping in the >> container.. >> >> >> >> - Bob Headrick >> > I'll second Bob's experience. I suspect the plastic has been > "greened down" to break down in landfills. The quality/durability > of the plastic seems to have deteriated greatly in the last > few years. They seem to be especially sensitive to sunlight. > > Do you do your own oil changes? The 5-quart > oil containers seem to be made of better stuff. > > Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6377 (20110814) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > >
2011-08-15 by Leon
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bushroe <mbushroe@...> wrote: > > I checked the plastic recycling codes on the Muriatic Acid jug and the > Hydrogenperoxide bottles. Bother were made of recycle code 2 HDPE. Since > milk juggs have the same material and recycle codes, I use washed out gallon > Milk jugs to store the mix. No problems in over a year. The ones we have in the UK seem pretty good (they are recyclable), and I use them for storing FeCl3 and developer. Just in case, I keep them in an old washing-up bowl. Leon
2011-08-15 by Stefan Trethan
Strong HCL (or was it H2O2?) will damage HDPE in the long run. The plastic becomes brittle from the inside. So if you are thinking long term (5+ years) use a glass container. Mind that the H2O2 in the mixture will give off oxygen long after using it, any glass container should have a pressure relief lid. ST
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:08 PM, freespamfree <freespamfree@yahoo.com> wrote: > I will be etching my first board in the next few weeks. What I want to know is once I mix the muriatic acid & hydrogen peroxide, what is the best container to store it in; I know to not use anything metal. I was thinking of a container that is water tight once it is closed but I don't know of anything that will work easily enough. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > >
2011-08-15 by Dave
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: > > Strong HCL (or was it H2O2?) will damage HDPE in the long run. The > plastic becomes brittle from the inside. > So if you are thinking long term (5+ years) use a glass container. > > Mind that the H2O2 in the mixture will give off oxygen long after > using it, any glass container should have a pressure relief lid. Excellent point about the pressure relief lid. You do NOT want your container of etchant exploding due to built up pressure from the H2O2 decomposing/gassing. Note that Muriatic Acid releases Chlorine, and Chlorine is the universal corrodant. It will attack most metals, and some plastics as well. Note, though, that there are some plastics that incorporate Chlorine (or even Fluorine) into their chemical composition, and those should be quite immune to the effects of additional Chlorine. > ST Dave
2011-08-15 by Mike Bushroe
> > I would be very careful using milk jugs. I am on a well and have 20 or so > milk jugs of water in the garage to use if the power fails for washing, > flushing toilets, etc. > > Regularly I find one of them is only half full, leaking from the seams. > Maybe only a 10%/year failure, but I would hate to have the etchant oozing > out. > > I would not use these to store something I cared about keeping in the > container.. > > - Bob Headrick > Good point Bob! I guess I should have added that I also store the bottle in a used chlorine pool table bucket (also code 2 HPDE) with about a pound of baking soda in the bottom. If ti leaks, it should at least partially neutralize in the baking soda, and the bucket is MUCH thicker tougher stuff. Just _real_ hard to pour from! Mike -- Burn the Land, Boil the Sea, You can't take the SKY from me! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-08-16 by garydeal
>I use glass Mason canning jars. They come with a lid and ring but you
>can buy plastic screw on lids. Has worked for me for 2 years.
I'd suggest not using glass that seals. The hydrogen peroxide will
continue to decompose and produce oxygen gas while in storage, which can
produce enough pressure to burst the container (the type of seal on a
mason jar with the two-part lid might be ok for this, but I wouldn't use
it). I've had several exploding glass containers of other things over the
years, and even if the contents isn't nasty the glass can fly quite a
ways.
I've stored the stuff in a brown plastic peroxide bottle, having
squeezed it quite a bit before capping, and had it develop enough
pressure to show stretch lines down the sides of the bottle. The big
plastic ketchup squeeze bottles sound about perfect, since they can vent
the pressure while sealed. The vented gasses will still rust/corrode any
metal nearby...
-Gary2011-08-16 by William Whyte
Best to use windshield washer bottle.
Ollie
--- On Sun, 8/14/11, kabowers@... <kabowers@...> wrote:From: kabowers@... <kabowers@NorthState.net>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] RE: Storing Muriatic Acid & Hydrogen peroxide
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:20 PM
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:31:20 -0700, you wrote:
>I would be very careful using milk jugs. I am on a well and have 20 or so
>milk jugs of water in the garage to use if the power fails for washing,
>flushing toilets, etc.
>
>
>
>Regularly I find one of them is only half full, leaking from the seams.
>Maybe only a 10%/year failure, but I would hate to have the etchant oozing
>out.
>
>
>
>I would not use these to store something I cared about keeping in the
>container..
>
>
>
>- Bob Headrick
>
I'll second Bob's experience. I suspect the plastic has been
"greened down" to break down in landfills. The quality/durability
of the plastic seems to have deteriated greatly in the last
few years. They seem to be especially sensitive to sunlight.
Do you do your own oil changes? The 5-quart
oil containers seem to be made of better stuff.
Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2011-08-16 by Stefan Trethan
Good idea, then you can just prop your PCBs against the windshield, turn on the cleaning program, and enjoy a free spray etcher. ;-) ST Whatever bottle you use, clearly label it. Otherwise someone will do something silly with it.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:19 PM, William Whyte <olliewhy@yahoo.com> wrote: > Best to use windshield washer bottle. > Ollie
2011-08-18 by freespamfree
When we say nearby how nearby are we talking about? Like in the same room or just within a few feet? I didn't know about the gas that the mixture would give off. I'll have to remember that when I go to store it in a container to make sure that the cap isn't fully tightened. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, garydeal <garydeal@...> wrote:
> > > >I use glass Mason canning jars. They come with a lid and ring but you > >can buy plastic screw on lids. Has worked for me for 2 years. > > I'd suggest not using glass that seals. The hydrogen peroxide will > continue to decompose and produce oxygen gas while in storage, which can > produce enough pressure to burst the container (the type of seal on a > mason jar with the two-part lid might be ok for this, but I wouldn't use > it). I've had several exploding glass containers of other things over the > years, and even if the contents isn't nasty the glass can fly quite a > ways. > > I've stored the stuff in a brown plastic peroxide bottle, having > squeezed it quite a bit before capping, and had it develop enough > pressure to show stretch lines down the sides of the bottle. The big > plastic ketchup squeeze bottles sound about perfect, since they can vent > the pressure while sealed. The vented gasses will still rust/corrode any > metal nearby... > > -Gary >
2011-08-18 by designer_craig
I would not store HCL or HCL/H202 anyware near something you would not like to rust. HCL has a habit of getting out of any container even with a tight cap. Keep the container glass or plastic outside in a second container to keep it cool and eliminate any the UV that would degrade your storage container. I store my HCL bottle in a 5 gallon drywall mud bucket/lid out in the yard. Don't put it in the garage unless you want all your tools or even your new car rusting. Craig --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "freespamfree" <freespamfree@...> wrote:
> > When we say nearby how nearby are we talking about? Like in the same room or just within a few feet? > > I didn't know about the gas that the mixture would give off. I'll have to remember that when I go to store it in a container to make sure that the cap isn't fully tightened. > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, garydeal <garydeal@> wrote: > > > > > > >I use glass Mason canning jars. They come with a lid and ring but you > > >can buy plastic screw on lids. Has worked for me for 2 years. > > > > I'd suggest not using glass that seals. The hydrogen peroxide will > > continue to decompose and produce oxygen gas while in storage, which can > > produce enough pressure to burst the container (the type of seal on a > > mason jar with the two-part lid might be ok for this, but I wouldn't use > > it). I've had several exploding glass containers of other things over the > > years, and even if the contents isn't nasty the glass can fly quite a > > ways. > > > > I've stored the stuff in a brown plastic peroxide bottle, having > > squeezed it quite a bit before capping, and had it develop enough > > pressure to show stretch lines down the sides of the bottle. The big > > plastic ketchup squeeze bottles sound about perfect, since they can vent > > the pressure while sealed. The vented gasses will still rust/corrode any > > metal nearby... > > > > -Gary > > >
2011-08-18 by Stefan Trethan
I can't agree to this severe assessment. While HCL is highly corrosive it does not pose a problem in a closed container. About two liters of etchant, stored in a etching tank with just a "gravity" lid, not airtight by any means (CuCl crystals would regularly bloom all over the lid, even on the outside), next two it one liter of HCL in a glass bottle (closed) is stored on my workbench for many years next to tools and materials with no ill effects at all. I store the chemicals inside a plastic box, with another box turned upside down as a lid to keep the dust out, but again there is no seal. Previously I kept the HCL in a plastic (HDPE) bottle. Right next to this bottle I kept a spray can. The welded seam of the steel spray can did start to rust, after some years of storage this way. So plastic bottles let some fumes through. The rust was minimal and steel items further away did not show any signs of rust. I switched to glass bottles because the plastic bottle became brittle. However a completely open to the air container of strong etchant did make nearby tools rust, as a box of drills have learned to their detriment (but I still use them after a good oiling). It depends on a couple of factors: Temperature - colder means less fumes Ventilation - obvious Acid concentration - Pure HCL will fume a lot and should be stored in a sealed container, while the etchant is not so bad Distance - don't put your best tools on top of the acid container Layers - keep your etching equipment in at last two layers of containment, you need them anyway for spill prevention and I notice that every time I lift the upper box the smell of chemicals is noticeable, so it traps some fumes. I wouldn't worry about putting my car next to the etching equipment, and that's not just because the car is made of aluminium and won't rust. ST
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 7:19 PM, designer_craig <cs6061@...> wrote: > I would not store HCL or HCL/H202 anyware near something you would not like to rust. HCL has a habit of getting out of any container even with a tight cap. Keep the container glass or plastic outside in a second container to keep it cool and eliminate any the UV that would degrade your storage container. I store my HCL bottle in a 5 gallon drywall mud bucket/lid out in the yard. Don't put it in the garage unless you want all your tools or even your new car rusting. > > Craig
2011-08-18 by garydeal
>When we say nearby how nearby are we talking about? Like in the same room
>or just within a few feet?
Same room, garage, basement, drafty shed, or even just nearby
downwind. It's probably the chlorine more than anything else. I've had
the most problem with the translucent jugs of pool acid, while the heavy
white jugs of acid seem to keep it sealed pretty well. Also a problem
with when I've left the etchant uncovered (duh), then it can freely get
loose and rust things, fog optics/glass, ruin anodized finishes, etc.
I recall a post, here or somewhere else, where someone said that
etchant/acid fumes ate the heads off all the nails on the inside of their
shed. I'd expect that to have taken a LOT of fumes and a substantial
period of time.
I'd say that the best place to store etchant would be in a plastic
bottle with the air squeezed out - then there's those ketchup squeeze
bottles again - in a five gallon plastic bucket with a bunch of
neutralizer in the botton as someone mentioned, either baking soda or
sodium carbonate from the pool store, somewhere outside, safe from prying
children.
Of course, that's "best", and I'm sure there's folks who just have
it under the sink with the other more horrible corrosive poisons. Hint:
If you can smell it, it's getting out, and you don't want that.
If you're only working with a half pint or so, go with the squeezed
ketchup bottle and keep it somewhere drafty (if possible), it shouldn't
be a huge deal. I just happen to have a talent for activating Murphy's
Law ("Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, most likely when
everyone is watching"), that's why I wear shoes and seatbelts.
-Gary2011-08-20 by garydeal
Hiya Stefan,
>About two liters of etchant, stored in a etching tank with just a
>"gravity" lid, not airtight by any means (CuCl crystals would
>regularly bloom all over the lid, even on the outside), next two it
>one liter of HCL in a glass bottle (closed) is stored on my workbench
>for many years next to tools and materials with no ill effects at all.
>I store the chemicals inside a plastic box, with another box turned
>upside down as a lid to keep the dust out, but again there is no seal.
Is that a CuCl etchant or a fresh-ish HCl/peroxide etchant? There'd
be a difference.
The double-box thing is good, I don't remember what the name for
what that particular thing is called but it will force contact with the
surfaces at the narrow points. Are HCl fumes heavier than air?
Well sealed HCl (no peroxide) doesn't develop much/any pressure, so
glass is good for that. The translucent plastic jugs from the pool
supply, not good for longish storage indoors.
>I wouldn't worry about putting my car next to the etching equipment,
>and that's not just because the car is made of aluminium and won't
>rust.
Um, HCl and aluminum are not compatible. It can be pretty hard on
anodized & dyed aluminum too, and some types of rubber, and who knows
what all else. It'll also put a fog on nearby glass, but it's easy to
clean off.
In the end, we all just need to be aware and do what works in our
particular situations.