Homebrew PCBs

Has anyone tried using toner in an inkjet printer? Specifically an Epson?
I know the holes are small but so are the toner particles. My thought is that a mix of distilled water, maybe a little ammonia to make it slippery and some toner might go through the print head. Then bake it to flow out the toner and etch.

Crazy? Maybe. Been crazy before.

LeMar

For good reasons, it sometimes takes years for highly specialized chemists to develop a specialty ink - using multi-million dollar equipment.
Its absolutly not as easy people think - its actually the most difficult part in the whole inkjet printing technique.

If such a homebrew mixture prints at all, it will only do for a very short time, abolutly not reliable nor repeatedly and chances a very very high to ruin the printhead permanently.

I suggest that investing the time in other experiments is a much better choice.

Ingo


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "lemar" <doyle51241@...> wrote:

>
> Has anyone tried using toner in an inkjet printer? Specifically an Epson?
> I know the holes are small but so are the toner particles. My thought is that a mix of distilled water, maybe a little ammonia to make it slippery and some toner might go through the print head. Then bake it to flow out the toner and etch.
> 
> Crazy? Maybe. Been crazy before.
> 
> LeMar
>

I gave this some thought a few weeks ago, but I'm almost certain it 
will just clog the printhead. Even if it doesn't, it would settle out 
very rapidly.

At 10:43 AM 5/13/2011, you wrote:

>Has anyone tried using toner in an inkjet printer? Specifically an Epson?
>I know the holes are small but so are the toner particles. My 
>thought is that a mix of distilled water, maybe a little ammonia to 
>make it slippery and some toner might go through the print head. 
>Then bake it to flow out the toner and etch.
>
>Crazy? Maybe. Been crazy before.
>
>LeMar
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

And, all that said, if you feel like sacrificing a printhead and some time, Go For It!  I don't have time or inclination, but if you've nothing better to spend some time and money on, give it a try.  Worst that happens is nothing works.  No one will be hurt.

Let us know how poorly you fared, or surprise us with success :)
Donald.
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----- Original Message -----

> From: "Mark Lerman" <mlerman@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 11:21:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner in an Inkjet printer
> 
> I gave this some thought a few weeks ago, but I'm almost certain it 
> will just clog the printhead. Even if it doesn't, it would settle out
> 
> very rapidly.
> 
> At 10:43 AM 5/13/2011, you wrote:
> >Has anyone tried using toner in an inkjet printer? Specifically an
> Epson?
> >I know the holes are small but so are the toner particles. My 
> >thought is that a mix of distilled water, maybe a little ammonia to 
> >make it slippery and some toner might go through the print head. 
> >Then bake it to flow out the toner and etch.
> >
> >Crazy? Maybe. Been crazy before.
> >
> >LeMar
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Toner has a coating of polymer which I think would stop it making a
suspension in water. Just see what happens when you try and wash it off...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lerman
> Sent: 13 May 2011 16:21
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner in an Inkjet printer
> 
> 
> I gave this some thought a few weeks ago, but I'm almost certain it 
> will just clog the printhead. Even if it doesn't, it would settle out 
> very rapidly.
> 
> At 10:43 AM 5/13/2011, you wrote:
> >Has anyone tried using toner in an inkjet printer? Specifically an 
> >Epson? I know the holes are small but so are the toner particles. My 
> >thought is that a mix of distilled water, maybe a little ammonia to 
> >make it slippery and some toner might go through the print 
> head. Then 
> >bake it to flow out the toner and etch.
> >
> >Crazy? Maybe. Been crazy before.
> >
> >LeMar
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> >Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! 
> Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

> Has anyone tried using toner in an inkjet printer? Specifically an
> Epson?
> I know the holes are small but so are the toner particles. My thought
> is that a mix of distilled water, maybe a little ammonia to make it
> slippery and some toner might go through the print head. Then bake it
> to flow out the toner and etch.
> 
> Crazy? Maybe. Been crazy before.


Rummaging around the 'net, a particle of toner these days is about 8 um (10
millionth of a meter, ie small) or less, while inkjet nozzles in desktop
printers seem to range from 15um to 30um.

In theory it will work, in practice probably not.  The particles of toner
would probably bunch together and clog the nozzle, the same way that
hourglasses occasionally stop when the sand manages to align itself just
right and block the hole, even though each grain is much smaller.

That said - http://www.jinpingwiredie.com/x1.htm.  Build your own head
rather than hoping the old printer (older the better!) you are using has big
nozzles.

Your next problem is the liquid, you want something that'll evaporate
quickly & cleanly.

It is possible though, powder coating can be done like this.  Normally
powder coating is done exactly like laser printing, the fine particles
(probably similar in size to toner) are charged and stick to the metal vie
static attraction.  Then you heat it and it melts.

There's this -
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/techline/ie.html#liquipowder.  You mix
this with the powder, spray it like paint, then bake as per normal.

Powder coat is much tougher than paint, but its drawbacks are that it needs
baking (200C / 400F) and is hard to touch up, and it's hard to coat some
shapes, especially inside pipes and so on.  200C is about the point where
wood chars, so coating wood 'just' works, and most plastic melt before then.
There are now 'low' temperature coating, so 'flat pack' furniture in future
will be powder coated, not Melamine etc.  (btw, this is a BIG thing if you
are into office & shop fit-outs.)

I've no idea what that chemical is though (& I haven't bothered finding
out).

So yeah, not completely crazy after all.

Tony