Homebrew PCBs

Hi, I tried to use this wet table saw, with the thin diamond blade that
was discussed several times on this list, and the results are extremely
disappointing.

If I use a thin PCB, I think 1/32", I can use a paper cutter, it leaves
one corner a bit bent but it's fine. With thicker, double copper double
layer PCBs, this won't work. That is why I tried withe the tile saw but
everytime it takes a long time to setup everything and the cut is never
straight. Last time I even bent the blade. I think I won't try this
method again.

I guess I'll have to find space for a real shear... any advice? I do not
think I will need a big one.

bye
as

I think any small shear will work fine for FR4.  I got a 12" grizzly
one but others here have the 8" harbor freight model.

How precise is a cut with a shear like that? Pictures welcome ;)

Bye
as
- - - - -

> 
> I think any small shear will work fine for FR4.  I got a 12" grizzly
> one but others here have the 8" harbor freight model.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

I don't think you will get a good and precise cut without a milling machine or saw (and I don't mean a hacksaw)

I use score-and-snap method, edges are a bit ugly but they clean up very very nice with a file (and quickly too!)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "alesan" <alesan@...> wrote:

>
> How precise is a cut with a shear like that? Pictures welcome ;)
> 
> Bye
> as
> - - - - -
> 
> > 
> > I think any small shear will work fine for FR4.  I got a 12" grizzly
> > one but others here have the 8" harbor freight model.
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

On 05/04/2011 01:22 AM, tda7000 wrote:
> I don't think you will get a good and precise cut without a milling machine or saw (and I don't mean a hacksaw)

No, with this thicker PCB I have that takes A LOT OF EFFORT (it is the
PCB that I use when I make power supplies to deliver tens of amps).

Milling machines work very well but they make dust and are not the
quickest to use... I would really like to see how a shear works.

bye!
as

are you saying this will work?  
http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109  if so i'll get one 
please advise





________________________________

From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 4:45:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs

  
On 05/04/2011 01:22 AM, tda7000 wrote:
> I don't think you will get a good and precise cut without a milling machine or 
>saw (and I don't mean a hacksaw)

No, with this thicker PCB I have that takes A LOT OF EFFORT (it is the
PCB that I use when I make power supplies to deliver tens of amps).

Milling machines work very well but they make dust and are not the
quickest to use... I would really like to see how a shear works.

bye!
as


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Probably, though how long the blade will last on FR4 is another question...

It will give rough edges too, you will need to sand\file them if you want something smooth.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Tom Biery <judsquare@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> are you saying this will work?  
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109  if so i'll get one 
> please advise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 4:45:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs
> 
>   
> On 05/04/2011 01:22 AM, tda7000 wrote:
> > I don't think you will get a good and precise cut without a milling machine or 
> >saw (and I don't mean a hacksaw)
> 
> No, with this thicker PCB I have that takes A LOT OF EFFORT (it is the
> PCB that I use when I make power supplies to deliver tens of amps).
> 
> Milling machines work very well but they make dust and are not the
> quickest to use... I would really like to see how a shear works.
> 
> bye!
> as
> 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I have a similar guilotine, and it does cut FR4, but the edge is not smooth afterwards. 
 
I used to sand the edges on a linnisher / Table mounted belt sander. 
 
regards John

--- On Wed, 4/5/11, Tom Biery <judsquare@...> wrote:

From: Tom Biery <judsquare@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 May, 2011, 9:57


  





are you saying this will work? 
http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109 if so i'll get one 
please advise

________________________________
From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 4:45:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs

On 05/04/2011 01:22 AM, tda7000 wrote:
> I don't think you will get a good and precise cut without a milling machine or 
>saw (and I don't mean a hacksaw)

No, with this thicker PCB I have that takes A LOT OF EFFORT (it is the
PCB that I use when I make power supplies to deliver tens of amps).

Milling machines work very well but they make dust and are not the
quickest to use... I would really like to see how a shear works.

bye!
as

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would think that Grizzly would work fine.  I have an old 36" Famco shear that I use all the time. Wouldn't use it on .125" material but it should do fine.  Only thing that seems to be missing is a fore tabel to lay the board on while aligning the cut, but that could be added with some plywood or MDF.  It's cost and size seem fairly optimum for DYI PCB work, we just need a report on the quality.

Because of the storage location I can't easly eyeball real accurate cuts on the Famco without pulling it out. So I cut a little larger than needed and trim to the line on my 12" stationary disk sander. The dust is nasty stuff so I try an be as close as possible. Then I use wet/dry sand paper to smooth up the final edge.

The glass is hard on the cutting edges but they can be sharpened if necessary.

Craig

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Tom Biery <judsquare@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> are you saying this will work?  
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109  if so i'll get one 
> please advise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 4:45:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs
> 
>   
> On 05/04/2011 01:22 AM, tda7000 wrote:
> > I don't think you will get a good and precise cut without a milling machine or 
> >saw (and I don't mean a hacksaw)
> 
> No, with this thicker PCB I have that takes A LOT OF EFFORT (it is the
> PCB that I use when I make power supplies to deliver tens of amps).
> 
> Milling machines work very well but they make dust and are not the
> quickest to use... I would really like to see how a shear works.
> 
> bye!
> as
> 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

About 3-4 years ago I picked up one of those  small
table-top Micro-Mark table saws with a 3 1/4" carbide
blade. Does a  great job for me and easy to cut small boards
less than 1/2" wide. I usually  use .062 FR-4 board material
and this saw does nice, precision  cuts.

These saws are not cheap though as they are around $300 each
on  sale but they are great for one-off projects or if you need
to make lots of  copies of a certain size board.

73 - Todd WD4NGG

I usually sand the edges just to get them smooth, but here's a photo of
some of the trimming still under the 12" shear:

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/grizzly-shear.html

On 05/04/2011 02:46 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/grizzly-shear.html

It seems perfectly acceptable to me. Of course you give a quick
sand/file after to smooth the edges.

Do you *really* copyright those pictures? Why not simply let them go in
the public domain?

bye
as

I use a flat bastard file to clean up the edges of mine.

Makes them perfectly smooth and cuts fast too. Maybe a little too fast if you don't watch out! (Note, I've only done this for FR4, might be a bit risky for the other types, not sure)

Makes a lot of dust, so keep your mask and vacuum handy...


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> I usually sand the edges just to get them smooth, but here's a photo of
> some of the trimming still under the 12" shear:
> 
> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/grizzly-shear.html
>

Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> writes:
> On 05/04/2011 02:46 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
>> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/grizzly-shear.html
>
> It seems perfectly acceptable to me. Of course you give a quick
> sand/file after to smooth the edges.

Those are trimmings - I did *not* sand those!  When I use a sanding
block to smooth the edges, it's nearly indistinguishable from a
fab-milled edge.

> Do you *really* copyright those pictures? Why not simply let them go
> in the public domain?

There's a generic "missing file" handler that generates the *.html files
from *.jpg files, inserts the thumbnails, etc.  Lets me post *.html but
still let the server stop people from linking directly to my images from
their web pages.  Since it doesn't know the nature of the image, it just
prints the standard copyright on it.

On 05/04/2011 03:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

> from *.jpg files, inserts the thumbnails, etc.  Lets me post *.html but
> still let the server stop people from linking directly to my images from
> their web pages.

I do not understand :) what if I simply use this URL:

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/grizzly-shear.jpg

bye
as

That's different, he's talking about when people hotlink from their own web-page. In that case the referrer will be different and you'll get an error message instead.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

>
> On 05/04/2011 03:23 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> 
> > from *.jpg files, inserts the thumbnails, etc.  Lets me post *.html but
> > still let the server stop people from linking directly to my images from
> > their web pages.
> 
> I do not understand :) what if I simply use this URL:
> 
> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/grizzly-shear.jpg
> 
> bye
> as
>

On 05/04/2011 04:18 PM, tda7000 wrote:
> That's different, he's talking about when people hotlink from their
> own web-page. In that case the referrer will be different and you'll
> get an error message instead.

http://www.manoweb.com/alesan/temp/test-hotlink.html

bye
as

I know I've said it before -- but then again, I don't think anyone has actually listened! Before investing in a $300 tablesaw or a shear of doubtful capacity, consider buying a metal cutting bandsaw (NOT A WOODWORKING BANDSAW!!!) such as this one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html

Yes, it is going to cost more than a cheap shear or tile saw, but with a 20% off coupon (fairly common from this retailer), the price is not too bad -- and you get something that does a surprisingly good job on metal.

For PCB's, I use a 24 pitch metal cutting blade (NOT A WOODWORKING BLADE!!!) -- it cuts fast, clean, and accurately, and the blade does not get dull. I've used the same blade back and forth between PCB's and cutting metal for quite a long time.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

>
> Hi, I tried to use this wet table saw, with the thin diamond blade that
> was discussed several times on this list, and the results are extremely
> disappointing.
> 
> If I use a thin PCB, I think 1/32", I can use a paper cutter, it leaves
> one corner a bit bent but it's fine. With thicker, double copper double
> layer PCBs, this won't work. That is why I tried withe the tile saw but
> everytime it takes a long time to setup everything and the cut is never
> straight. Last time I even bent the blade. I think I won't try this
> method again.
> 
> I guess I'll have to find space for a real shear... any advice? I do not
> think I will need a big one.
> 
> bye
> as
>

Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> writes:
> http://www.manoweb.com/alesan/temp/test-hotlink.html

You already have that image cached.  Try shift-reload:

http://www.delorie.com/tmp/stolen-image.html

On 05/04/2011 04:54 PM, Andrew wrote:
> I know I've said it before -- but then again, I don't think anyone
> has actually listened! Before investing in a $300 tablesaw or a shear

Well I think the problem is that mahcine is so huge, one can hardly
justify the real estate it takes if it's used only for PCBs.

bye
as

On 05/04/2011 05:32 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

> You already have that image cached.  Try shift-reload:

oh ok :)

still, I am for public domain ;)

bye
as

Considering...

Harbor Freight
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-top-shear-brake-90757.html
Grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109 

Please advise. If you have any further comments.




________________________________

From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 9:21:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs

  
On 05/04/2011 05:32 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

> You already have that image cached. Try shift-reload:

oh ok :)

still, I am for public domain ;)

bye
as




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hacksaw makes short work of cutting PCBs but it's hard (for me anyway) to get straight edges (which is why I don't like to use it)

Of course you can fix that with a file but it takes longer.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Tom Biery <judsquare@...> wrote:

>
> Considering...
> 
> Harbor Freight
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-top-shear-brake-90757.html
> Grizzly
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109 
> 
> Please advise. If you have any further comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 9:21:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Cutting PCBs
> 
> Â  
> On 05/04/2011 05:32 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> 
> > You already have that image cached. Try shift-reload:
> 
> oh ok :)
> 
> still, I am for public domain ;)
> 
> bye
> as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

While they look similar I can almost guarantee the grizzly model is
made to closer tolerances.  It's also cheaper so I'd recommend the
Grizzly.  You might want to try looking for a used one first.  Grizzly
in my experience has been much easier to work with and to get
replacement parts for than HF.

-- 
Erik L. Knise
Seattle, WA

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Tom Biery <judsquare@...> wrote:
> Considering...
>
> Harbor Freight
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-top-shear-brake-90757.html
> Grizzly
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Mini-Shear-Brake/T23109
>
> Please advise. If you have any further comments.
>

Well, a good point. My electronics hobby supports my machining hobby (I got into TT when redesigning a PWM motor drive for a small lathe), While my home machine shop is very compact by machine shop standards, it is a lot bigger than the closet that would be all I'd need if I were only doing the electronics!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

>
> On 05/04/2011 04:54 PM, Andrew wrote:
> > I know I've said it before -- but then again, I don't think anyone
> > has actually listened! Before investing in a $300 tablesaw or a shear
> 
> Well I think the problem is that mahcine is so huge, one can hardly
> justify the real estate it takes if it's used only for PCBs.
> 
> bye
> as
>

And I should add, that machine is so *small* compared to many of my machine tools, that it was a bit of a shock to reconsider how huge it would appear from the vantage of a different hobby! :)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:

>
> Well, a good point. My electronics hobby supports my machining hobby (I got into TT when redesigning a PWM motor drive for a small lathe), While my home machine shop is very compact by machine shop standards, it is a lot bigger than the closet that would be all I'd need if I were only doing the electronics!
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@> wrote:
> >
> > On 05/04/2011 04:54 PM, Andrew wrote:
> > > I know I've said it before -- but then again, I don't think anyone
> > > has actually listened! Before investing in a $300 tablesaw or a shear
> > 
> > Well I think the problem is that mahcine is so huge, one can hardly
> > justify the real estate it takes if it's used only for PCBs.
> > 
> > bye
> > as
> >
>