Homebrew PCBs

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jmelson2
Sent: 23 March 2011 16:05
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure

There might be a plastic or oily film on the board.  I use dry film resist, but have to scrub the board with abrasive cleanser and/or very fine sandpaper to get good adhesion.

Jon

On 03/23/2011 11:32 AM, Eldon Brown wrote:
> I suggest "Comet" and "Scott Bright" and then acetone.
>
> See similar details and results on my web site:
>
> http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com
>
> Eldon - WA0UWH
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:59 AM, David C. Partridge<
> david.partridge@...>  wrote:
>
>>
>> I did manage to get a degree of adhesion on a test board by using a clothes
>> iron set to the highest setting. But it was pretty patchy. I had scrubbed
>> the board first with a nylon scourer and also wiped over with acetone to
>> de-grease it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Partridge
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>> On Behalf Of jmelson2
>> Sent: 23 March 2011 16:05
>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure
>>
>> There might be a plastic or oily film on the board. I use dry film resist,
>> but have to scrub the board with abrasive cleanser and/or very fine
>> sandpaper to get good adhesion.
>>
>> Jon

>
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:43:32 -0700, you wrote:
> 
> >Scotchbrite is a line of abrasive products from 3M. The green colored 
> >pads work well. I got good results by using the green pad and water to 
> >remove the surface layer, then soap + hot water to remove the bulk of 
> >dirt and oils. After drying, I used a clean, lint free wipe and acetone 
> >to make sure the surface was free of oils.
> >
> >I also found that different irons vary significantly in how hot they 
> >get. One of our irons worked much better than the other.
> >
> >You may want to check into a laminator instead of an iron.
> >
> >-Pete
> >
> >
> To prepare a board for toner transfer I've had good results by first 
> giving the board a really good scrubbing with green Scotchbrite and 
> dishwashing detergent. I follow this with a hot water rinse. Then I 
> spray it down with Orange Blast and let it sit for a few minutes. 
> Next is a good rinse in hot water. Finally I wash the board with 93%+ 
> Isopropyl Alcohol from the drugstore then dry the board with a fan.
> 
> I like the alcohol instead of acetone; I think it's easier on the body.
> 
> Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
>

>
> I have tried the transfer with cleaning the boards and without and I couldn't see much of a difference.
> 
> Sounds to me like the Toner you are using has a higher melting point than other toners.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kabowers@ wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:43:32 -0700, you wrote:
> > 
> > >Scotchbrite is a line of abrasive products from 3M. The green colored 
> > >pads work well. I got good results by using the green pad and water to 
> > >remove the surface layer, then soap + hot water to remove the bulk of 
> > >dirt and oils. After drying, I used a clean, lint free wipe and acetone 
> > >to make sure the surface was free of oils.
> > >
> > >I also found that different irons vary significantly in how hot they 
> > >get. One of our irons worked much better than the other.
> > >
> > >You may want to check into a laminator instead of an iron.
> > >
> > >-Pete
> > >
> > >
> > To prepare a board for toner transfer I've had good results by first 
> > giving the board a really good scrubbing with green Scotchbrite and 
> > dishwashing detergent. I follow this with a hot water rinse. Then I 
> > spray it down with Orange Blast and let it sit for a few minutes. 
> > Next is a good rinse in hot water. Finally I wash the board with 93%+ 
> > Isopropyl Alcohol from the drugstore then dry the board with a fan.
> > 
> > I like the alcohol instead of acetone; I think it's easier on the body.
> > 
> > Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
> >
>

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "David C. Partridge" <david.partridge@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:59:39 -0000

  
  I did manage to get a degree of adhesion on a test board by using a clothes iron set to the highest setting.  But it was pretty patchy.  I had scrubbed the board first with a nylon scourer and also wiped over with acetone to de-grease it.    
 
 Regards,
 David Partridge
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jmelson2
 Sent: 23 March 2011 16:05
 To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure
 
 There might be a plastic or oily film on the board.  I use dry film resist, but have to scrub the board with abrasive cleanser and/or very fine sandpaper to get good adhesion.
 
 Jon
 

      
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-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RJ
Sent: 24 March 2011 00:28
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure

I tried our newer HP laserjet printer at work and its a no go getting the toner to stick well. Gave up and used our newer Canon instead ..

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote:
>
> I have tried the transfer with cleaning the boards and without and I couldn't see much of a difference.
> 
> Sounds to me like the Toner you are using has a higher melting point than other toners.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kabowers@ wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:43:32 -0700, you wrote:
> > 
> > >Scotchbrite is a line of abrasive products from 3M. The green 
> > >colored pads work well. I got good results by using the green pad 
> > >and water to remove the surface layer, then soap + hot water to 
> > >remove the bulk of dirt and oils. After drying, I used a clean, 
> > >lint free wipe and acetone to make sure the surface was free of oils.
> > >
> > >I also found that different irons vary significantly in how hot 
> > >they get. One of our irons worked much better than the other.
> > >
> > >You may want to check into a laminator instead of an iron.
> > >
> > >-Pete
> > >
> > >
> > To prepare a board for toner transfer I've had good results by first 
> > giving the board a really good scrubbing with green Scotchbrite and 
> > dishwashing detergent. I follow this with a hot water rinse. Then I 
> > spray it down with Orange Blast and let it sit for a few minutes.
> > Next is a good rinse in hot water. Finally I wash the board with 
> > 93%+ Isopropyl Alcohol from the drugstore then dry the board with a fan.
> > 
> > I like the alcohol instead of acetone; I think it's easier on the body.
> > 
> > Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
> >
>




------------------------------------

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David C. Partridge
Sent: 24 March 2011 09:00
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure

Oh bother!  I really don't want to have to buy another laser printer!  Does anyone know if there is a lower melting point toner (another brand perhaps) that will work with the HP 4000 series LaserJets?  

Either that or I will need to make modifications to the laminator to increase its temperature range, proably a PID

Thanks
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RJ
Sent: 24 March 2011 00:28
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure

I tried our newer HP laserjet printer at work and its a no go getting the toner to stick well. Gave up and used our newer Canon instead ..

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote:
>
> I have tried the transfer with cleaning the boards and without and I couldn't see much of a difference.
> 
> Sounds to me like the Toner you are using has a higher melting point than other toners.
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, kabowers@ wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:43:32 -0700, you wrote:
> > 
> > >Scotchbrite is a line of abrasive products from 3M. The green 
> > >colored pads work well. I got good results by using the green pad 
> > >and water to remove the surface layer, then soap + hot water to 
> > >remove the bulk of dirt and oils. After drying, I used a clean, 
> > >lint free wipe and acetone to make sure the surface was free of oils.
> > >
> > >I also found that different irons vary significantly in how hot 
> > >they get. One of our irons worked much better than the other.
> > >
> > >You may want to check into a laminator instead of an iron.
> > >
> > >-Pete
> > >
> > >
> > To prepare a board for toner transfer I've had good results by first 
> > giving the board a really good scrubbing with green Scotchbrite and 
> > dishwashing detergent. I follow this with a hot water rinse. Then I 
> > spray it down with Orange Blast and let it sit for a few minutes.
> > Next is a good rinse in hot water. Finally I wash the board with 
> > 93%+ Isopropyl Alcohol from the drugstore then dry the board with a fan.
> > 
> > I like the alcohol instead of acetone; I think it's easier on the body.
> > 
> > Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
> >
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

>
> Oh bother!  I really don't want to have to buy another laser printer!  Does anyone know if there is a lower melting point toner (another brand perhaps) that will work with the HP 4000 series LaserJets?  
> 
> Either that or I will need to make modifications to the laminator to increase its temperature range, proably a PID
> 
> Thanks
> Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RJ
> Sent: 24 March 2011 00:28
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure
> 
> I tried our newer HP laserjet printer at work and its a no go getting the toner to stick well. Gave up and used our newer Canon instead ..
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@> wrote:
> >
> > I have tried the transfer with cleaning the boards and without and I couldn't see much of a difference.
> > 
> > Sounds to me like the Toner you are using has a higher melting point than other toners.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kabowers@ wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:43:32 -0700, you wrote:
> > > 
> > > >Scotchbrite is a line of abrasive products from 3M. The green 
> > > >colored pads work well. I got good results by using the green pad 
> > > >and water to remove the surface layer, then soap + hot water to 
> > > >remove the bulk of dirt and oils. After drying, I used a clean, 
> > > >lint free wipe and acetone to make sure the surface was free of oils.
> > > >
> > > >I also found that different irons vary significantly in how hot 
> > > >they get. One of our irons worked much better than the other.
> > > >
> > > >You may want to check into a laminator instead of an iron.
> > > >
> > > >-Pete
> > > >
> > > >
> > > To prepare a board for toner transfer I've had good results by first 
> > > giving the board a really good scrubbing with green Scotchbrite and 
> > > dishwashing detergent. I follow this with a hot water rinse. Then I 
> > > spray it down with Orange Blast and let it sit for a few minutes.
> > > Next is a good rinse in hot water. Finally I wash the board with 
> > > 93%+ Isopropyl Alcohol from the drugstore then dry the board with a fan.
> > > 
> > > I like the alcohol instead of acetone; I think it's easier on the body.
> > > 
> > > Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bebx2000
Sent: 24 March 2011 15:27
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer failure



I use two Hp Laserjets, a 1320 and a 1102W and never have a problem with the toner fusing. The latter is a cheap wireless that routinely goes on sale for $99 at Staples.

Baxter

> I printed the top and bottom layouts
> onto glossy magazine paper on an HP LJ 4050, and they looked
> just fine.  I lined them up and taped them to the PCB,
> and fed the sandwich through the laminator many times, but
> the toner stayed firmly stuck to the paper with not the
> slightest hint of sticking to the PCB.  The toner is
> standard HP 4127X, and the laminator is set to its highest
> setting of about 170 degrees Celsius (just under 340F).
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks
> Dave

>
> 170 degrees is too low
> should be over 200, a good iron in linen position goes up to 240 and works well.
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 3/23/11, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@...> wrote:
> > I printed the top and bottom layouts
> > onto glossy magazine paper on an HP LJ 4050, and they looked
> > just fine.  I lined them up and taped them to the PCB,
> > and fed the sandwich through the laminator many times, but
> > the toner stayed firmly stuck to the paper with not the
> > slightest hint of sticking to the PCB.  The toner is
> > standard HP 4127X, and the laminator is set to its highest
> > setting of about 170 degrees Celsius (just under 340F).
> > 
> > What am I doing wrong?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Dave
>

>
> 
> 
> I use two Hp Laserjets, a 1320 and a 1102W and never have a problem with the toner fusing. The latter is a cheap wireless that routinely goes on sale for $99 at Staples.
> 
> Baxter
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "David C. Partridge" <david.partridge@> wrote:
> >
> > Oh bother!  I really don't want to have to buy another laser printer!  Does anyone know if there is a lower melting point toner (another brand perhaps) that will work with the HP 4000 series LaserJets?
>

>
> What temperature do you have your laminator set to please?
> 
> If it is within the range of my good laminator, I may just buy a 1320 just for PCB work.
>

>
> I printed the top and bottom layouts onto glossy magazine paper on an HP LJ 4050, and they looked just fine.  I lined them up and taped them to the PCB, and fed the sandwich through the laminator many times, but the toner stayed firmly stuck to the paper with not the slightest hint of sticking to the PCB.  The toner is standard HP 4127X, and the laminator is set to its highest setting of about 170 degrees Celsius (just under 340F).
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks
> Dave
>