Homebrew_PCBs

Jan Kok ? Can you email me off list please?
I have an update for you on this topic ..

Randy

Is there a reason not to share it with the rest of us?

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote:
>
> Jan Kok ? Can you email me off list please?
> I have an update for you on this topic ..
>
> Randy
>

Sorry Steve .. I was nervous about it being an old topic by a new rogue . :(

All I was going to share was that it seems like ..
The curing of the toner makes the resolution if the edges and thinner lines better .. and I did one board that had reaaaaaaly small print on it .. and the one before this one without curing had it wear off during etch .. but same pattern and process along with curing .. NONE of the fine print wore off and was quite nice .. so it seems like it matters .. and helps .. edges look sharper on the traces ..
Nice thing too .. is it doesnt seem to hurt anything .. and doesnt take all that long. So if anyone else wants to try and see if it
looks like it makes a difference .. cant hurt to try..

Sorry about being gun shy ..

Randy - N2CUA

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a reason not to share it with the rest of us?
>
> Steve Greenfield AE7HD
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@> wrote:
> >
> > Jan Kok ? Can you email me off list please?
> > I have an update for you on this topic ..
> >
> > Randy
> >
>

Interesting update ..
I have this thin board .. 0.031 thick
and have had a difficult time getting the toner to
stick good to it. The thicker stuff seems to be better.
How does this relate to toner curing?
Well .. I have my new Apache 13P 4 roller laminator ..
and did one board .. and some of the transfers came off..
It was that thin laminate again .. so I cleaned it up and
tried it again .. but this time .. I thought .. being the rogue
that I am .. that perhaps I could quench it then cure / bake it
WITH the paper on .. Well that was interesting ..
The paper dried out .. and getting that first layer off was a little
tricky .. but as much as it seemed to be more stuck to the board
I expected it to pull the trace toner patterns right off the board.
But, if did not . So I threw the board back into the water and
went to work .. Just got home .. and worked a fair bit harder getting that paper off the board .. and was rubbing it remarkably harder
then the first board... The toner stayed on the board. Nothing came off .. Sooo I believe at this point in the adventure that baking / curing ... or whatever its doing to the toner .. is definitely making it adhere better to the board ..

Thats about it ..

Hope it might help someone out there ...

Randy - N2CUA

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry Steve .. I was nervous about it being an old topic by a new rogue . :(
>
> All I was going to share was that it seems like ..
> The curing of the toner makes the resolution if the edges and thinner lines better .. and I did one board that had reaaaaaaly small print on it .. and the one before this one without curing had it wear off during etch .. but same pattern and process along with curing .. NONE of the fine print wore off and was quite nice .. so it seems like it matters .. and helps .. edges look sharper on the traces ..
> Nice thing too .. is it doesnt seem to hurt anything .. and doesnt take all that long. So if anyone else wants to try and see if it
> looks like it makes a difference .. cant hurt to try..
>
> Sorry about being gun shy ..
>
> Randy - N2CUA
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a reason not to share it with the rest of us?
> >
> > Steve Greenfield AE7HD
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jan Kok ? Can you email me off list please?
> > > I have an update for you on this topic ..
> > >
> > > Randy
> > >
> >
>

Any specifics about time, temp?

thanks for sharing

raymundo

>
>From: RJ <rj3819@...>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Thu, March 17, 2011 9:02:58 PM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner cure
>
>
>Interesting update ..
>I have this thin board .. 0.031 thick
>and have had a difficult time getting the toner to
>stick good to it. The thicker stuff seems to be better.
>How does this relate to toner curing?
>Well .. I have my new Apache 13P 4 roller laminator ..
>and did one board .. and some of the transfers came off..
>It was that thin laminate again .. so I cleaned it up and
>tried it again .. but this time .. I thought .. being the rogue
>that I am .. that perhaps I could quench it then cure / bake it
>WITH the paper on .. Well that was interesting ..
>The paper dried out .. and getting that first layer off was a little
>tricky .. but as much as it seemed to be more stuck to the board
>I expected it to pull the trace toner patterns right off the board.
>But, if did not . So I threw the board back into the water and
>went to work .. Just got home .. and worked a fair bit harder getting that paper
>off the board .. and was rubbing it remarkably harder
>
>then the first board... The toner stayed on the board. Nothing came off .. Sooo
>I believe at this point in the adventure that baking / curing ... or whatever
>its doing to the toner .. is definitely making it adhere better to the board ..
>
>
>Thats about it ..
>
>Hope it might help someone out there ...
>
>Randy - N2CUA
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry Steve .. I was nervous about it being an old topic by a new rogue . :(
>>
>> All I was going to share was that it seems like ..
>> The curing of the toner makes the resolution if the edges and thinner lines
>>better .. and I did one board that had reaaaaaaly small print on it .. and the
>>one before this one without curing had it wear off during etch .. but same
>>pattern and process along with curing .. NONE of the fine print wore off and was
>>quite nice .. so it seems like it matters .. and helps .. edges look sharper on
>>the traces ..
>>
>> Nice thing too .. is it doesnt seem to hurt anything .. and doesnt take all
>>that long. So if anyone else wants to try and see if it
>> looks like it makes a difference .. cant hurt to try..
>>
>> Sorry about being gun shy ..
>>
>> Randy - N2CUA
>>
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@> wrote:
>> >
>> > Is there a reason not to share it with the rest of us?
>> >
>> > Steve Greenfield AE7HD
>> >
>> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Jan Kok ? Can you email me off list please?
>> > > I have an update for you on this topic ..
>> > >
>> > > Randy
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Getting toner to transfer on to a board depends on three things:

time
temperature
pressure

The final result is mostly a product of the three. You can reduce one (to an
extent) by increasing one or both of the others. Temperature is the
non-linear one. Too low and the toner never gets soft enough to stick, no
matter how much time and pressure. Too high, and the toner turns to liquid,
and squishes out and destroys all the fine details.

If you are having trouble running very thin boards through your
laminator, try putting a second thin board under it to bring the thickness,
and thus the pressure back up. This only works, of course, if you are
transferring one side at a time. But if you are doing a double sided board
at once, add thick paper above and below the board with transfer paper so
that the total thickness will be better,

Just a guess.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Etched my first board tonight in a long time - for various reasons (toner's getting low, it's an odd shape) I touched up a few spots with nail polish and then decided to sit the whole thing on top of (NOT IN) the toaster and just set it off a few times to make sure the nail polish had really dried out (in a previous attempt it hadn't and partially lifted during the etch.)

Now, I may have inadvertently done the "toner cure" because I can't get anything off the board now no matter how much nail polish remover I throw at it. But there's another quite likely explanation which is that one of the junior chemists around the house has, either to conceal some excessive use or just for the hell of it, diluted the stuff heavily - it does seem to smell a lot less strong and evaporate less.

But if it *is* toner cure, I've got a pretty repeatable means of doing it!

PG

On 22/03/2011, at 10:49 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote:

> Getting toner to transfer on to a board depends on three things:
>
> time
> temperature
> pressure
>
> The final result is mostly a product of the three. You can reduce one (to an
> extent) by increasing one or both of the others. Temperature is the
> non-linear one. Too low and the toner never gets soft enough to stick, no
> matter how much time and pressure. Too high, and the toner turns to liquid,
> and squishes out and destroys all the fine details.
>
> If you are having trouble running very thin boards through your
> laminator, try putting a second thin board under it to bring the thickness,
> and thus the pressure back up. This only works, of course, if you are
> transferring one side at a time. But if you are doing a double sided board
> at once, add thick paper above and below the board with transfer paper so
> that the total thickness will be better,

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:30 AM, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:

> Etched my first board tonight in a long time - for various reasons (toner's getting low, it's an odd shape) I touched up a few spots with nail polish and then decided to sit the whole thing on top of (NOT IN) the toaster and just set it off a few times to make sure the nail polish had really dried out (in a previous attempt it hadn't and partially lifted during the etch.)
>
> Now, I may have inadvertently done the "toner cure" because I can't get anything off the board now no matter how much nail polish remover I throw at it. But there's another quite likely explanation which is that one of the junior chemists around the house has, either to conceal some excessive use or just for the hell of it, diluted the stuff heavily - it does seem to smell a lot less strong and evaporate less.
>
> But if it *is* toner cure, I've got a pretty repeatable means of doing it!
>
> PG
>
>

As long as they only diluted your nail polish remover and not your 18
y/o Scotch you should be ok!

Do you find it cheaper to buy acetone in the form of nail polish
remover? Wouldn't it be cheaper in a larger container?

--
Erik L. Knise
Seattle, WA