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2011-02-16 by Randy S.
ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think .. however, my pads and traces are running together.. Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing.. Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ? Help please ? Thanks Randy - N2CUA
2011-02-16 by Andrew
Randy, Are you using a laminator or an iron to transfer the image to the board? How are you prepping the board? If using an iron, how hot, how long, how hard are you pressing, using the flat or an edge, etc.? If using a laminator, how hot, how many passes? --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think .. > however, my pads and traces are running together.. > Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that > toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing.. > Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ? > Help please ? > > Thanks > > Randy - N2CUA >
2011-02-16 by Randy S.
Hi Andrew .. thanks for the reply.. apologies for not providing enough info up front. Using an iron .. though I do have a laminator .. Have a piece of aluminum on my waffle maker.. I let that heat up .. reading the temp .. doesn't go over 350 ish .. PCB ..I use steel wool .. acetone .. I read something about wanting small scratches from like a scotch scoring pad so the toner will attach better .. ?? First one I pressed down hard .. and worked the iron n forth.. Second one pressed down, but didn't work the iron back n forth .. heated the PCB for several minutes... the board sizzled when I quenched it .. The iron doesn't get hotter than about 400 degrees from what I can tell with the laser thermometer.. I'm not at home and don't remember the exact temp. I can try to record more exact temps if need. But the all the toner does transfer, and is on the board good .. just spread out .. for example the traces on a 8 PIN DIP are all touching after.. Again .. its like a copy of a copy to the final kind of thing .. That may be bad news .. I will know later tonite.. When I get a chance to make fresh copies and compare. I was looking at the copy I used to making the final version to transfer. I can see where the gap between the traces is less .. SO ... it may be an accumulation of errors stacked against me .. I am going reprint the original images straight to the paper and compare and try those .. is it possible that I have the darkness setting too high? That HP laserjet copier / printer does put a lot of toner on the paper on the darkest setting .. That's about all I can think of .. 1. Should I try the laminator? Suggestions on multiple passes? 2. Lighter setting on the printer / copier? 3. Less pressure, heat or time? all ideas appreciated .. was wondering if anyone was going to reply .. ;) Thanks .. Randy ________________________________
From: Andrew <a_wake@earthlink.net>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 3:05:35 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together
Randy,
Are you using a laminator or an iron to transfer the image to the board? How are
you prepping the board?
If using an iron, how hot, how long, how hard are you pressing, using the flat
or an edge, etc.?
If using a laminator, how hot, how many passes?
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote:
>
> ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think ..
> however, my pads and traces are running together..
> Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that
> toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing..
> Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ?
> Help please ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Randy - N2CUA
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2011-02-16 by Paul Mateer
Sounds like to much pressure to me On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > Hi Andrew .. thanks for the reply.. apologies for not providing enough info > up > front. > Using an iron .. though I do have a laminator .. > Have a piece of aluminum on my waffle maker.. > I let that heat up .. reading the temp .. doesn't go over 350 ish .. > PCB ..I use steel wool .. acetone .. > I read something about wanting small scratches from like a > scotch scoring pad so the toner will attach better .. ?? > First one I pressed down hard .. and worked the iron n forth.. > Second one pressed down, but didn't work the iron back n forth .. > heated the PCB for several minutes... the board sizzled when I quenched it > .. > The iron doesn't get hotter than about 400 degrees from what I can > tell with the laser thermometer.. I'm not at home and don't remember the > exact temp. I can try to record more exact temps if need. But the all the > toner > does transfer, and is on the board good .. just spread out .. for example > the traces on a 8 PIN DIP are all touching after.. > Again .. its like a copy of a copy to the final kind of thing .. > That may be bad news .. I will know later tonite.. > When I get a chance to make fresh copies and compare. > > I was looking at the copy I used to making the final version to transfer. > I can see where the gap between the traces is less .. > SO ... it may be an accumulation of errors stacked against me .. > > I am going reprint the original images straight to the paper and compare > and try those .. is it possible that I have the darkness setting too high? > That HP laserjet copier / printer does put a lot of toner on the paper on > the > darkest setting .. > > That's about all I can think of .. > > 1. Should I try the laminator? Suggestions on multiple passes? > 2. Lighter setting on the printer / copier? > 3. Less pressure, heat or time? > > all ideas appreciated .. was wondering if anyone was going to reply .. ;) > Thanks .. > > Randy > > ________________________________ > From: Andrew <a_wake@...> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 3:05:35 PM > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > > Randy, > > Are you using a laminator or an iron to transfer the image to the board? > How are > you prepping the board? > > If using an iron, how hot, how long, how hard are you pressing, using the > flat > or an edge, etc.? > > If using a laminator, how hot, how many passes? > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > > ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think .. > > however, my pads and traces are running together.. > > Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that > > toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing.. > > Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ? > > Help please ? > > > > Thanks > > > > Randy - N2CUA > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Paul Mateer, AA9GG Elan Engineering Corp. www.elanengr.com NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-02-16 by Randy S.
Thanks Paul .. Think it would be worth giving the laminator a try ? Do must people on here use a laminator? Should I preheat the board before feeding it thru? Or just go with multiple passes? Randy
----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 4:26:08 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together Sounds like to much pressure to me On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > Hi Andrew .. thanks for the reply.. apologies for not providing enough info > up > front. > Using an iron .. though I do have a laminator .. > Have a piece of aluminum on my waffle maker.. > I let that heat up .. reading the temp .. doesn't go over 350 ish .. > PCB ..I use steel wool .. acetone .. > I read something about wanting small scratches from like a > scotch scoring pad so the toner will attach better .. ?? > First one I pressed down hard .. and worked the iron n forth.. > Second one pressed down, but didn't work the iron back n forth .. > heated the PCB for several minutes... the board sizzled when I quenched it > .. > The iron doesn't get hotter than about 400 degrees from what I can > tell with the laser thermometer.. I'm not at home and don't remember the > exact temp. I can try to record more exact temps if need. But the all the > toner > does transfer, and is on the board good .. just spread out .. for example > the traces on a 8 PIN DIP are all touching after.. > Again .. its like a copy of a copy to the final kind of thing .. > That may be bad news .. I will know later tonite.. > When I get a chance to make fresh copies and compare. > > I was looking at the copy I used to making the final version to transfer. > I can see where the gap between the traces is less .. > SO ... it may be an accumulation of errors stacked against me .. > > I am going reprint the original images straight to the paper and compare > and try those .. is it possible that I have the darkness setting too high? > That HP laserjet copier / printer does put a lot of toner on the paper on > the > darkest setting .. > > That's about all I can think of .. > > 1. Should I try the laminator? Suggestions on multiple passes? > 2. Lighter setting on the printer / copier? > 3. Less pressure, heat or time? > > all ideas appreciated .. was wondering if anyone was going to reply .. ;) > Thanks .. > > Randy > > ________________________________ > From: Andrew <a_wake@...> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 3:05:35 PM > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > > Randy, > > Are you using a laminator or an iron to transfer the image to the board? > How are > you prepping the board? > > If using an iron, how hot, how long, how hard are you pressing, using the > flat > or an edge, etc.? > > If using a laminator, how hot, how many passes? > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > > ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think .. > > however, my pads and traces are running together.. > > Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that > > toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing.. > > Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ? > > Help please ? > > > > Thanks > > > > Randy - N2CUA > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Paul Mateer, AA9GG Elan Engineering Corp. www.elanengr.com NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2011-02-16 by Paul Mateer
Try it, multi passes I think. I use an iron myself On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Paul .. > Think it would be worth giving the laminator a try ? > Do must people on here use a laminator? > Should I preheat the board before feeding it thru? > Or just go with multiple passes? > > Randy > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 4:26:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > Sounds like to much pressure to me > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Andrew .. thanks for the reply.. apologies for not providing enough > info > > up > > front. > > Using an iron .. though I do have a laminator .. > > Have a piece of aluminum on my waffle maker.. > > I let that heat up .. reading the temp .. doesn't go over 350 ish .. > > PCB ..I use steel wool .. acetone .. > > I read something about wanting small scratches from like a > > scotch scoring pad so the toner will attach better .. ?? > > First one I pressed down hard .. and worked the iron n forth.. > > Second one pressed down, but didn't work the iron back n forth .. > > heated the PCB for several minutes... the board sizzled when I quenched > it > > .. > > The iron doesn't get hotter than about 400 degrees from what I can > > tell with the laser thermometer.. I'm not at home and don't remember the > > exact temp. I can try to record more exact temps if need. But the all the > > toner > > does transfer, and is on the board good .. just spread out .. for example > > the traces on a 8 PIN DIP are all touching after.. > > Again .. its like a copy of a copy to the final kind of thing .. > > That may be bad news .. I will know later tonite.. > > When I get a chance to make fresh copies and compare. > > > > I was looking at the copy I used to making the final version to transfer. > > I can see where the gap between the traces is less .. > > SO ... it may be an accumulation of errors stacked against me .. > > > > I am going reprint the original images straight to the paper and compare > > and try those .. is it possible that I have the darkness setting too > high? > > That HP laserjet copier / printer does put a lot of toner on the paper on > > the > > darkest setting .. > > > > That's about all I can think of .. > > > > 1. Should I try the laminator? Suggestions on multiple passes? > > 2. Lighter setting on the printer / copier? > > 3. Less pressure, heat or time? > > > > all ideas appreciated .. was wondering if anyone was going to reply .. ;) > > Thanks .. > > > > Randy > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Andrew <a_wake@...> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 3:05:35 PM > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > > > > > Randy, > > > > Are you using a laminator or an iron to transfer the image to the board? > > How are > > you prepping the board? > > > > If using an iron, how hot, how long, how hard are you pressing, using the > > flat > > or an edge, etc.? > > > > If using a laminator, how hot, how many passes? > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > > > > ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think .. > > > however, my pads and traces are running together.. > > > Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that > > > toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing.. > > > Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ? > > > Help please ? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Randy - N2CUA > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Paul Mateer, AA9GG > Elan Engineering Corp. > www.elanengr.com > NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Paul Mateer, AA9GG Elan Engineering Corp. www.elanengr.com NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-02-16 by Randy S.
ok .. thanks Paul .. I will give it a try with fresh copies and see how that goes .. at least the laser jet glossy brochure paper is working well .. ; )
----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 4:45:32 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together Try it, multi passes I think. I use an iron myself On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Paul .. > Think it would be worth giving the laminator a try ? > Do must people on here use a laminator? > Should I preheat the board before feeding it thru? > Or just go with multiple passes? > > Randy > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 4:26:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > Sounds like to much pressure to me > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Andrew .. thanks for the reply.. apologies for not providing enough > info > > up > > front. > > Using an iron .. though I do have a laminator .. > > Have a piece of aluminum on my waffle maker.. > > I let that heat up .. reading the temp .. doesn't go over 350 ish .. > > PCB ..I use steel wool .. acetone .. > > I read something about wanting small scratches from like a > > scotch scoring pad so the toner will attach better .. ?? > > First one I pressed down hard .. and worked the iron n forth.. > > Second one pressed down, but didn't work the iron back n forth .. > > heated the PCB for several minutes... the board sizzled when I quenched > it > > .. > > The iron doesn't get hotter than about 400 degrees from what I can > > tell with the laser thermometer.. I'm not at home and don't remember the > > exact temp. I can try to record more exact temps if need. But the all the > > toner > > does transfer, and is on the board good .. just spread out .. for example > > the traces on a 8 PIN DIP are all touching after.. > > Again .. its like a copy of a copy to the final kind of thing .. > > That may be bad news .. I will know later tonite.. > > When I get a chance to make fresh copies and compare. > > > > I was looking at the copy I used to making the final version to transfer. > > I can see where the gap between the traces is less .. > > SO ... it may be an accumulation of errors stacked against me .. > > > > I am going reprint the original images straight to the paper and compare > > and try those .. is it possible that I have the darkness setting too > high? > > That HP laserjet copier / printer does put a lot of toner on the paper on > > the > > darkest setting .. > > > > That's about all I can think of .. > > > > 1. Should I try the laminator? Suggestions on multiple passes? > > 2. Lighter setting on the printer / copier? > > 3. Less pressure, heat or time? > > > > all ideas appreciated .. was wondering if anyone was going to reply .. ;) > > Thanks .. > > > > Randy > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Andrew <a_wake@...> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 3:05:35 PM > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > > > > > Randy, > > > > Are you using a laminator or an iron to transfer the image to the board? > > How are > > you prepping the board? > > > > If using an iron, how hot, how long, how hard are you pressing, using the > > flat > > or an edge, etc.? > > > > If using a laminator, how hot, how many passes? > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote: > > > > > > ok .. the glossy laser paper is working fine I think .. > > > however, my pads and traces are running together.. > > > Am I pressing too hard ? Is it a product of that > > > toner perhaps? Now.. It is a copy of a copy kind of a thing.. > > > Perhaps a fresh print directly to the paper is better ? > > > Help please ? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Randy - N2CUA > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > Paul Mateer, AA9GG > Elan Engineering Corp. > www.elanengr.com > NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Paul Mateer, AA9GG Elan Engineering Corp. www.elanengr.com NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
2011-02-17 by Derryck Croker
On 16 Feb 2011, at 21:59, Randy S. wrote: > ok .. thanks Paul .. I will give it a try with fresh copies > and see how that goes .. at least the laser jet glossy > brochure paper is working well .. ; ) > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 4:45:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: traces running together > > Try it, multi passes I think. I use an iron myself > <massive unnecessary quoting snipped> The best way I found was to pass the sandwich through a laminator once or twice to adhere the toner to the copper. Then put your sandwich on top of a newspaper, then a couple of sheets of kitchen paper, Then just rest the iron on top of that (on Cotton setting, no steam), for a couple of minutes. Then you can (carefully) re-visit the laminator for a few passes to iron it down. Of course, you'll have to experiment a little to get the exact timings and iron temp. -- Cheers Derryck