Homebrew PCBs

I just tried using a product called "Dissolvo Paper" as a toner transfer paper. Seems to work well.
 
Posted a photo of my first try in the photo section in the album Dissolvo Paper Experiment .

Printed just like regular paper, transferred with a GBC laminator and rinsed the board under the faucet for about 5 seconds. Paper completely dissolved! This paper has been around about 30+ years and is used in the welding industry. I came across it while working with a technician who was welding up some cryo lines in the lab at work. You can get this paper at magic shops or novelty shops on line. Here are some links. Give it a try.

http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=6614

http://www.kleargear.com/1815.html


Product Home page http://www.dissolvo.com/

There is a water dissolving paper used for quilting, too.

Look under "TT n Water Soluble Paper" for a member's example.

I just looked at the photos of your board, very nice!

Wierd thing, last time this was brought up there was a whole chorus of people denying it would work. Without trying it. Scratch_5067 tried it and it worked.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leeleduc" <leeleduc@...> wrote:

>
> I just tried using a product called "Dissolvo Paper" as a toner transfer paper. Seems to work well.
>  
> Posted a photo of my first try in the photo section in the album Dissolvo Paper Experiment .
> 
> Printed just like regular paper, transferred with a GBC laminator and rinsed the board under the faucet for about 5 seconds. Paper completely dissolved! This paper has been around about 30+ years and is used in the welding industry. I came across it while working with a technician who was welding up some cryo lines in the lab at work. You can get this paper at magic shops or novelty shops on line. Here are some links. Give it a try.
> 
> http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=6614
> 
> http://www.kleargear.com/1815.html
> 
> 
> Product Home page http://www.dissolvo.com/
>

I called the company that makes the paper and asked an applications engineer if I could run it through a laser printer and he said it would print just fine. I can print fine lines with it, the text on the photo titled "2nd try" is 6mil. The paper is a little thinner that 20lb copy paper (3mil vs 4mil) but my printer handles it just fine. BTW, I'm using an HP P2055DN. Here's a link for all the paper sizes the company makes. They are sending me a sample of the 7mil paper to try.

http://www.dissolvo.com/welding_products.php


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> There is a water dissolving paper used for quilting, too.
> 
> Look under "TT n Water Soluble Paper" for a member's example.
> 
> I just looked at the photos of your board, very nice!
> 
> Wierd thing, last time this was brought up there was a whole chorus of people denying it would work. Without trying it. Scratch_5067 tried it and it worked.
> 
> Steve Greenfield AE7HD
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leeleduc" <leeleduc@> wrote:
> >
> > I just tried using a product called "Dissolvo Paper" as a toner transfer paper. Seems to work well.
> >  
> > Posted a photo of my first try in the photo section in the album Dissolvo Paper Experiment .
> > 
> > Printed just like regular paper, transferred with a GBC laminator and rinsed the board under the faucet for about 5 seconds. Paper completely dissolved! This paper has been around about 30+ years and is used in the welding industry. I came across it while working with a technician who was welding up some cryo lines in the lab at work. You can get this paper at magic shops or novelty shops on line. Here are some links. Give it a try.
> > 
> > http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=6614
> > 
> > http://www.kleargear.com/1815.html
> > 
> > 
> > Product Home page http://www.dissolvo.com/
> >
>

On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:59 AM, leeleduc <leeleduc@...> wrote:
> I called the company that makes the paper and asked an applications engineer if I could run it through a laser printer and he said it would print just fine. I can print fine lines with it, the text on the photo titled "2nd try" is 6mil. The paper is a little thinner that 20lb copy paper (3mil vs 4mil) but my printer handles it just fine. BTW, I'm using an HP P2055DN. Here's a link for all the paper sizes the company makes. They are sending me a sample of the 7mil paper to try.
>
> http://www.dissolvo.com/welding_products.php

I would think the 3 mil paper would transfer the heat from the
laminator faster, and would be less stiff, thus less likely to curl,
so the 3 mil paper might transfer the toner better. The only advantage
to thicker paper I can think of is that it might be more dimensionally
stable.

Dissolvo also has some "coated" 4-mil paper that is less permeable to
gas. Perhaps that coating would provide a smoother surface that would
allow sharper, finer lines. Can you get a sample of that and try it
also?

Looking forward to hearing your results! :-)

Dissolvo is sending me a sample pack of all their paper weights, including the 4-mil coated. I'm looking forward to trying them out. I'll post the results. The 3-mil paper does not curl in either the printer or laminator, stays nice and flat. The paper is a little slick so I had to fold it over the end of the copper clad to get a clean start into the laminator.

When I tried my first run through the laminator I made 6 passes. This worked for the thick paper I was using but was too many passes for the dissolvo 3-mil. The 10-mil board outline was "squished" in a couple of spots. 2 passes works just right. This is what I used to get the clean 6-mil text on the 2nd try.

When I get more paper I'm going to try printing and laminating an 8 by 10 inch board outline with a pad at each corner to check the dimensional stability.

It also dawned on me that if I mess up a print, I should be able to simply print on the unused side and laminate that image instead. Sure would cut down on waste. I'll give that a try also.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:

>
> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:59 AM, leeleduc <leeleduc@...> wrote:
> > I called the company that makes the paper and asked an applications engineer if I could run it through a laser printer and he said it would print just fine. I can print fine lines with it, the text on the photo titled "2nd try" is 6mil. The paper is a little thinner that 20lb copy paper (3mil vs 4mil) but my printer handles it just fine. BTW, I'm using an HP P2055DN. Here's a link for all the paper sizes the company makes. They are sending me a sample of the 7mil paper to try.
> >
> > http://www.dissolvo.com/welding_products.php
> 
> I would think the 3 mil paper would transfer the heat from the
> laminator faster, and would be less stiff, thus less likely to curl,
> so the 3 mil paper might transfer the toner better. The only advantage
> to thicker paper I can think of is that it might be more dimensionally
> stable.
> 
> Dissolvo also has some "coated" 4-mil paper that is less permeable to
> gas. Perhaps that coating would provide a smoother surface that would
> allow sharper, finer lines. Can you get a sample of that and try it
> also?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your results! :-)
>

On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 2:35 PM, leeleduc <leeleduc@...> wrote:
> Dissolvo is sending me a sample pack of all their paper weights, including the 4-mil coated. I'm looking forward to trying them out. I'll post the results. The 3-mil paper does not curl in either the printer or laminator, stays nice and flat. The paper is a little slick so I had to fold it over the end of the copper clad to get a clean start into the laminator.
>
> When I tried my first run through the laminator I made 6 passes. This worked for the thick paper I was using but was too many passes for the dissolvo 3-mil. The 10-mil board outline was "squished" in a couple of spots. 2 passes works just right. This is what I used to get the clean 6-mil text on the 2nd try.
>
> When I get more paper I'm going to try printing and laminating an 8 by 10 inch board outline with a pad at each corner to check the dimensional stability.

Note that some printers don't print accurately. For example, my HP
LJ1100 prints about 0.5% larger than intended in the direction of
paper travel. Maybe that's because there is some dust stuck on the
surface of the paper rollers. I use PentaLogix ViewMate to adjust the
Y scale (if I really care about accuracy), then print to a PDF file
using CutePDF writer, then use Adobe Reader to print the PDF to the
printer.

> It also dawned on me that if I mess up a print, I should be able to simply print on the unused side and laminate that image instead. Sure would cut down on waste. I'll give that a try also.

Frank Miller at PulsarProFx warned me that getting toner on the
rollers of the laminator would make the rollers sticky, and I'd have
to take the laminator apart and clean off the rollers. I've never done
that (got toner on the rollers), but I put a note on the laminator to
remind myself not to do that!

At 60 cents per 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of Dissolvo paper (from
http://www.kleargear.com/1815.html) I wouldn't worry too much about
waste. Still, you can save on your special materials (transfer paper)
by printing your pattern to plain letter paper, then taping an
appropriate-sized piece of the transfer paper over the pattern, then
running the assembly through the printer again. I use printable labels
from OfficeMax as tape, to reduce the risk of gumming up the printer.
(Using printable labels as tape was another of Frank's suggestions.
Not sure if such paranoia is justified, but I'd rather be cautious
than risk screwing up my printer!)

The layout software I use has an X and Y adjustable fudge factor to take care of scaling issues.

I often place a sheet of tracing paper on top of my transfer just to keep the laminator clean. I've had a piece of transfer paper peel back on me once. What a mess! Frank warned me about that too. I'm not really worried about waste, I'm just having too much fun playing with this paper!


MadHatter http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=6614 sell Dissolvo for $36/100 sheets.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:

>
> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 2:35 PM, leeleduc <leeleduc@...> wrote:
> > Dissolvo is sending me a sample pack of all their paper weights, including the 4-mil coated. I'm looking forward to trying them out. I'll post the results. The 3-mil paper does not curl in either the printer or laminator, stays nice and flat. The paper is a little slick so I had to fold it over the end of the copper clad to get a clean start into the laminator.
> >
> > When I tried my first run through the laminator I made 6 passes. This worked for the thick paper I was using but was too many passes for the dissolvo 3-mil. The 10-mil board outline was "squished" in a couple of spots. 2 passes works just right. This is what I used to get the clean 6-mil text on the 2nd try.
> >
> > When I get more paper I'm going to try printing and laminating an 8 by 10 inch board outline with a pad at each corner to check the dimensional stability.
> 
> Note that some printers don't print accurately. For example, my HP
> LJ1100 prints about 0.5% larger than intended in the direction of
> paper travel. Maybe that's because there is some dust stuck on the
> surface of the paper rollers. I use PentaLogix ViewMate to adjust the
> Y scale (if I really care about accuracy), then print to a PDF file
> using CutePDF writer, then use Adobe Reader to print the PDF to the
> printer.
> 
> > It also dawned on me that if I mess up a print, I should be able to simply print on the unused side and laminate that image instead. Sure would cut down on waste. I'll give that a try also.
> 
> Frank Miller at PulsarProFx warned me that getting toner on the
> rollers of the laminator would make the rollers sticky, and I'd have
> to take the laminator apart and clean off the rollers. I've never done
> that (got toner on the rollers), but I put a note on the laminator to
> remind myself not to do that!
> 
> At 60 cents per 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of Dissolvo paper (from
> http://www.kleargear.com/1815.html) I wouldn't worry too much about
> waste. Still, you can save on your special materials (transfer paper)
> by printing your pattern to plain letter paper, then taping an
> appropriate-sized piece of the transfer paper over the pattern, then
> running the assembly through the printer again. I use printable labels
> from OfficeMax as tape, to reduce the risk of gumming up the printer.
> (Using printable labels as tape was another of Frank's suggestions.
> Not sure if such paranoia is justified, but I'd rather be cautious
> than risk screwing up my printer!)
>