Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Toner transfert: New user

2010-10-19 by Jean-Marc Spaggiari

Hi all,

I read few emails on the last few months regarding Toner Transfert for
home-made PCBs.

I tried over the last 3 days to do my own, but now really successful.

I'm using a Lexmark E210 (600dpi) with Stapple Gloss paper.

I looked over 200 videos on Youtube to find the right way to do it,
and here is what I did.

Print the schema on the gloss side of the gloss paper keeping my
fingers away from the printed area.
Cleaned the board with Vim, rinced it, and cleaned again with Acetone.
Placed the schema on top of the board.
Heated it without moving for the few first seconds to fix it, them
pressing hard and everyone to be sure it's well pressed for 6 minutes.
Putted the board on some water with 1 drop of soap for 5 minutes.
Pilled the paper, the scrubbed it to reveale the tracks.

At that point, the board seems to be well printed, all the tracks
beeing nice well separated and clear.

My concern is after the etching. There is some "holes" on my tracks :(
Like is the acid was going below the toner.

I tried with 10 mils, 15 mils and 20 mils. The holes are big enought
to cut 10 and 15 mils tracks. But 20 mils are "safe".

I have uploaded a picture on my album. Not 100% sur how to share it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/1194946320/pic/2101422375/view

At the end, my goal is do to a double-side board.

I'm not stuck with the Toner Transfert. If I phone something else
working better, I'm fine with that. But I don't want to pay 10$ for a
4"x6" piece of copper. I'm doing my tests with a 24x12 board I bought
4$ ;) I tried with some other boards (4x6) with the same results.

So few questions.

What's wrong? ;) I'm suspecting the etching to be to agressive. I'm
doing it on a plate using Q-Tips to brush the board, all of that at
50C
I would like to try the photo-transfert method, but it there a way to
"transform" a standard board to a photo-sensitive one whitout spending
10$ per board?
Is there few posts you can point me to so I can see past threads
related to this subject?

Also, sorry if I don't have all the right vocabulary. I'm still learning.

Thanks, and looking forward to read you.

Jean-Marc

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfert: New user

2010-10-19 by Piers Goodhew

Some "pitting" is normal with TT, from your pix it looks more like the
etchant got under the toner in some spots .. never seen that happen before -
are the traces actually broken, or just darker?

Also looks like the toner has "spread" somewhat from being squeezed down
hard - but not so hard that yr 10mil traces join, so probably not a problem.

PG

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Jean-Marc Spaggiari <
Jean-Marc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I read few emails on the last few months regarding Toner Transfert for
> home-made PCBs.
>
> I tried over the last 3 days to do my own, but now really successful.
>
> I'm using a Lexmark E210 (600dpi) with Stapple Gloss paper.
>
> I looked over 200 videos on Youtube to find the right way to do it,
> and here is what I did.
>
> Print the schema on the gloss side of the gloss paper keeping my
> fingers away from the printed area.
> Cleaned the board with Vim, rinced it, and cleaned again with Acetone.
> Placed the schema on top of the board.
> Heated it without moving for the few first seconds to fix it, them
> pressing hard and everyone to be sure it's well pressed for 6 minutes.
> Putted the board on some water with 1 drop of soap for 5 minutes.
> Pilled the paper, the scrubbed it to reveale the tracks.
>
> At that point, the board seems to be well printed, all the tracks
> beeing nice well separated and clear.
>
> My concern is after the etching. There is some "holes" on my tracks :(
> Like is the acid was going below the toner.
>
> I tried with 10 mils, 15 mils and 20 mils. The holes are big enought
> to cut 10 and 15 mils tracks. But 20 mils are "safe".
>
> I have uploaded a picture on my album. Not 100% sur how to share it.
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/1194946320/pic/2101422375/view
>
> At the end, my goal is do to a double-side board.
>
> I'm not stuck with the Toner Transfert. If I phone something else
> working better, I'm fine with that. But I don't want to pay 10$ for a
> 4"x6" piece of copper. I'm doing my tests with a 24x12 board I bought
> 4$ ;) I tried with some other boards (4x6) with the same results.
>
> So few questions.
>
> What's wrong? ;) I'm suspecting the etching to be to agressive. I'm
> doing it on a plate using Q-Tips to brush the board, all of that at
> 50C
> I would like to try the photo-transfert method, but it there a way to
> "transform" a standard board to a photo-sensitive one whitout spending
> 10$ per board?
> Is there few posts you can point me to so I can see past threads
> related to this subject?
>
> Also, sorry if I don't have all the right vocabulary. I'm still learning.
>
> Thanks, and looking forward to read you.
>
> Jean-Marc
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfert: New user

2010-10-19 by Jean-Marc Spaggiari

Hi PG,

Some traces are darker, like #1 and #4 from the top. Only traces #5
and 36 are broken.

So what shloud I try? Should I try to less squeeze with the iron? Or
keep the board less time in the etchant? Or both?

I ordered a laminator to see if this will give me a better result. I
really would like to have 100 % accurate 10 mils tracks. My goal is to
do the 10 mils spiral challenge. http://www.delorie.com/pcb/spirals/

JM

2010/10/19 Piers Goodhew <piers@...>:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Some "pitting" is normal with TT, from your pix it looks more like the
> etchant got under the toner in some spots .. never seen that happen before -
> are the traces actually broken, or just darker?
>
> Also looks like the toner has "spread" somewhat from being squeezed down
> hard - but not so hard that yr 10mil traces join, so probably not a problem.
>
> PG
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Jean-Marc Spaggiari <
> Jean-Marc@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I read few emails on the last few months regarding Toner Transfert for
>> home-made PCBs.
>>
>> I tried over the last 3 days to do my own, but now really successful.
>>
>> I'm using a Lexmark E210 (600dpi) with Stapple Gloss paper.
>>
>> I looked over 200 videos on Youtube to find the right way to do it,
>> and here is what I did.
>>
>> Print the schema on the gloss side of the gloss paper keeping my
>> fingers away from the printed area.
>> Cleaned the board with Vim, rinced it, and cleaned again with Acetone.
>> Placed the schema on top of the board.
>> Heated it without moving for the few first seconds to fix it, them
>> pressing hard and everyone to be sure it's well pressed for 6 minutes.
>> Putted the board on some water with 1 drop of soap for 5 minutes.
>> Pilled the paper, the scrubbed it to reveale the tracks.
>>
>> At that point, the board seems to be well printed, all the tracks
>> beeing nice well separated and clear.
>>
>> My concern is after the etching. There is some "holes" on my tracks :(
>> Like is the acid was going below the toner.
>>
>> I tried with 10 mils, 15 mils and 20 mils. The holes are big enought
>> to cut 10 and 15 mils tracks. But 20 mils are "safe".
>>
>> I have uploaded a picture on my album. Not 100% sur how to share it.
>>
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/1194946320/pic/2101422375/view
>>
>> At the end, my goal is do to a double-side board.
>>
>> I'm not stuck with the Toner Transfert. If I phone something else
>> working better, I'm fine with that. But I don't want to pay 10$ for a
>> 4"x6" piece of copper. I'm doing my tests with a 24x12 board I bought
>> 4$ ;) I tried with some other boards (4x6) with the same results.
>>
>> So few questions.
>>
>> What's wrong? ;) I'm suspecting the etching to be to agressive. I'm
>> doing it on a plate using Q-Tips to brush the board, all of that at
>> 50C
>> I would like to try the photo-transfert method, but it there a way to
>> "transform" a standard board to a photo-sensitive one whitout spending
>> 10$ per board?
>> Is there few posts you can point me to so I can see past threads
>> related to this subject?
>>
>> Also, sorry if I don't have all the right vocabulary. I'm still learning.
>>
>> Thanks, and looking forward to read you.
>>
>> Jean-Marc
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfert: New user

2010-10-20 by Donald H Locker

Hello, Jean-Marc.

It still appears that you don't have full transfer.  The holes are places where the toner did not adhere adequately to the copper.  The problem could be in the cleaning stage (water should be form a solid sheet across the copper, without forming droplets anywhere) or in the pressing stage.  A flatiron (clothes iron) may leave regions insufficiently pressed down.  My guess is that changing to a laminator will correct the problems you have, but you are nearly there.  If you can't wait for the laminator, try using the iron but after a few minutes of pressing on a flat surface, put a dowel under the board with the iron on top.  This will concentrate the pressure, somewhat like a laminator.

Hope that helps,
Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> From: "Jean-Marc Spaggiari" <Jean-Marc@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:03:24 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfert: New user
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I read few emails on the last few months regarding Toner Transfert for
> home-made PCBs.
> 
> I tried over the last 3 days to do my own, but now really successful.
> 
> I'm using a Lexmark E210 (600dpi) with Stapple Gloss paper.
> 
> I looked over 200 videos on Youtube to find the right way to do it,
> and here is what I did.
> 
> Print the schema on the gloss side of the gloss paper keeping my
> fingers away from the printed area.
> Cleaned the board with Vim, rinced it, and cleaned again with
> Acetone.
> Placed the schema on top of the board.
> Heated it without moving for the few first seconds to fix it, them
> pressing hard and everyone to be sure it's well pressed for 6
> minutes.
> Putted the board on some water with 1 drop of soap for 5 minutes.
> Pilled the paper, the scrubbed it to reveale the tracks.
> 
> At that point, the board seems to be well printed, all the tracks
> beeing nice well separated and clear.
> 
> My concern is after the etching. There is some "holes" on my tracks
> :(
> Like is the acid was going below the toner.
> 
> I tried with 10 mils, 15 mils and 20 mils. The holes are big enought
> to cut 10 and 15 mils tracks. But 20 mils are "safe".
> 
> I have uploaded a picture on my album. Not 100% sur how to share it.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/1194946320/pic/2101422375/view
> 
> At the end, my goal is do to a double-side board.
> 
> I'm not stuck with the Toner Transfert. If I phone something else
> working better, I'm fine with that. But I don't want to pay 10$ for a
> 4"x6" piece of copper. I'm doing my tests with a 24x12 board I bought
> 4$ ;) I tried with some other boards (4x6) with the same results.
> 
> So few questions.
> 
> What's wrong? ;) I'm suspecting the etching to be to agressive. I'm
> doing it on a plate using Q-Tips to brush the board, all of that at
> 50C
> I would like to try the photo-transfert method, but it there a way to
> "transform" a standard board to a photo-sensitive one whitout
> spending
> 10$ per board?
> Is there few posts you can point me to so I can see past threads
> related to this subject?
> 
> Also, sorry if I don't have all the right vocabulary. I'm still
> learning.
> 
> Thanks, and looking forward to read you.
> 
> Jean-Marc
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfert: New user

2010-10-20 by Jean-Marc Spaggiari

Hi Donald,

Thanks for the idea regarding the dowel. I will most probably try that
today. I can't wait for the laminator ;) Also, before etching, I will
ensure I have a bubble maker with bubbles evenly spread and an etchant
heater...

Also, I figured that 12 mils is small enought to go between the pins,
so I moved from 10 to 12. I also cleaned the printer rollers with
alchool.

I hope this will give me some results. I will post the pictures here.

Thanks,

JM

2010/10/19 Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...>:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Hello, Jean-Marc.
>
> It still appears that you don't have full transfer.  The holes are places where the toner did not adhere adequately to the copper.  The problem could be in the cleaning stage (water should be form a solid sheet across the copper, without forming droplets anywhere) or in the pressing stage.  A flatiron (clothes iron) may leave regions insufficiently pressed down.  My guess is that changing to a laminator will correct the problems you have, but you are nearly there.  If you can't wait for the laminator, try using the iron but after a few minutes of pressing on a flat surface, put a dowel under the board with the iron on top.  This will concentrate the pressure, somewhat like a laminator.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Donald.
> --
> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> ()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> /\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: "Jean-Marc Spaggiari" <Jean-Marc@...>
>> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:03:24 PM
>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfert: New user
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I read few emails on the last few months regarding Toner Transfert for
>> home-made PCBs.
>>
>> I tried over the last 3 days to do my own, but now really successful.
>>
>> I'm using a Lexmark E210 (600dpi) with Stapple Gloss paper.
>>
>> I looked over 200 videos on Youtube to find the right way to do it,
>> and here is what I did.
>>
>> Print the schema on the gloss side of the gloss paper keeping my
>> fingers away from the printed area.
>> Cleaned the board with Vim, rinced it, and cleaned again with
>> Acetone.
>> Placed the schema on top of the board.
>> Heated it without moving for the few first seconds to fix it, them
>> pressing hard and everyone to be sure it's well pressed for 6
>> minutes.
>> Putted the board on some water with 1 drop of soap for 5 minutes.
>> Pilled the paper, the scrubbed it to reveale the tracks.
>>
>> At that point, the board seems to be well printed, all the tracks
>> beeing nice well separated and clear.
>>
>> My concern is after the etching. There is some "holes" on my tracks
>> :(
>> Like is the acid was going below the toner.
>>
>> I tried with 10 mils, 15 mils and 20 mils. The holes are big enought
>> to cut 10 and 15 mils tracks. But 20 mils are "safe".
>>
>> I have uploaded a picture on my album. Not 100% sur how to share it.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/photos/album/1194946320/pic/2101422375/view
>>
>> At the end, my goal is do to a double-side board.
>>
>> I'm not stuck with the Toner Transfert. If I phone something else
>> working better, I'm fine with that. But I don't want to pay 10$ for a
>> 4"x6" piece of copper. I'm doing my tests with a 24x12 board I bought
>> 4$ ;) I tried with some other boards (4x6) with the same results.
>>
>> So few questions.
>>
>> What's wrong? ;) I'm suspecting the etching to be to agressive. I'm
>> doing it on a plate using Q-Tips to brush the board, all of that at
>> 50C
>> I would like to try the photo-transfert method, but it there a way to
>> "transform" a standard board to a photo-sensitive one whitout
>> spending
>> 10$ per board?
>> Is there few posts you can point me to so I can see past threads
>> related to this subject?
>>
>> Also, sorry if I don't have all the right vocabulary. I'm still
>> learning.
>>
>> Thanks, and looking forward to read you.
>>
>> Jean-Marc
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>> Photos:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>