Homebrew PCBs

Hi,

I just bought a Dremel Table Saw 580 (4" blade) on eBay. While waiting for delivery, I ask...

Can anyone recommend a proper blade pitch for cutting PCB fiberglass boards? Should I get different pitches for rough and final cuts?

I've heard that fiberglass causes a lot of wear on saw blades. Can anyone estimate how many boards a blade can cut before replacement? Should I buy a backup blade right away?

I also plan to use it to cut aluminum up to 1/8" thick for chassis work. Can someone recommend a good blade pitch for that task?

Finally. since this is my first circular saw, I've looked for online tutorials on safe and efficient operation. All I found were for 10" crcular saws cutting wood. Does anyone know of a tutorial for little saws cutting metal and fiberglass?

Thanks,
Jim

There are table mounting attachment for Saber saws. I would suggest getting 
one of those and using saber saw metal cutting blades.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message ----- 

From: "jimofc300" <jim@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:46 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Circular saw pitch


> Hi,
>
> I just bought a Dremel Table Saw 580 (4" blade) on eBay. While waiting for 
> delivery, I ask...
>
> Can anyone recommend a proper blade pitch for cutting PCB fiberglass 
> boards? Should I get different pitches for rough and final cuts?
>
> I've heard that fiberglass causes a lot of wear on saw blades. Can anyone 
> estimate how many boards a blade can cut before replacement? Should I buy 
> a backup blade right away?
>
> I also plan to use it to cut aluminum up to 1/8" thick for chassis work. 
> Can someone recommend a good blade pitch for that task?
>
> Finally. since this is my first circular saw, I've looked for online 
> tutorials on safe and efficient operation. All I found were for 10" 
> crcular saws cutting wood. Does anyone know of a tutorial for little saws 
> cutting metal and fiberglass?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

I would go along with Bob Macklin and use something other than a Dremel tool of any sort since attachments are so expensive.  Having more copper clad than I could possibly ever use, I'm not concerned with drop wasted from cutting so I use discarded a masonry blade on a table mounted circular saw. This set up will also cut fairly thick steel, though like with PCBs it leaves rougher edge than desired but a hand file makes short work of that.

James

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "jimofc300" <jim@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I just bought a Dremel Table Saw 580 (4" blade) on eBay. While waiting for delivery, I ask...
> 
> Can anyone recommend a proper blade pitch for cutting PCB fiberglass boards? Should I get different pitches for rough and final cuts?
> 
> I've heard that fiberglass causes a lot of wear on saw blades. Can anyone estimate how many boards a blade can cut before replacement? Should I buy a backup blade right away?
> 
> I also plan to use it to cut aluminum up to 1/8" thick for chassis work. Can someone recommend a good blade pitch for that task?
> 
> Finally. since this is my first circular saw, I've looked for online tutorials on safe and efficient operation. All I found were for 10" crcular saws cutting wood. Does anyone know of a tutorial for little saws cutting metal and fiberglass?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
>

Get a Wet/Dry Diamond Blade.

Saftey: Most any of the Wood Workers rules would also apply to cutting PCB's.

1.  Keep your fingers away from the blade when running.

2.  Wear Saftey Glasses.

3.  Setup good Dust Collection.

4.  Panel cutting jig that you can clamp your material to.

Ben

When I have cut pcb material on my table saw I taped up a bunch, with
masking tape, and ran them thru so that the thickness would be at least a
half inch thru the cut.

 

I think a good table saw blade for this purpose would have many teeth, like
an 80 tooth diamond faced blade, which are available for 10 inch, which I
have and 8 inch, 12 inch, 4 inch I am not sure.

 

Some of the pcb material I think would not survive the table saw and a band
saw with a metal cutting blade might be better.

 

Sorry I cannot give a more precise response.

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ben L
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:44 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Circular saw pitch

 

  



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "jimofc300" <jim@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I just bought a Dremel Table Saw 580 (4" blade) on eBay. While waiting for
delivery, I ask...
> 
> Can anyone recommend a proper blade pitch for cutting PCB fiberglass
boards? Should I get different pitches for rough and final cuts?
> 
> I've heard that fiberglass causes a lot of wear on saw blades. Can anyone
estimate how many boards a blade can cut before replacement? Should I buy a
backup blade right away?
> 
> I also plan to use it to cut aluminum up to 1/8" thick for chassis work.
Can someone recommend a good blade pitch for that task?
> 
> Finally. since this is my first circular saw, I've looked for online
tutorials on safe and efficient operation. All I found were for 10" crcular
saws cutting wood. Does anyone know of a tutorial for little saws cutting
metal and fiberglass?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
>

Get a Wet/Dry Diamond Blade.

Saftey: Most any of the Wood Workers rules would also apply to cutting
PCB's.

1. Keep your fingers away from the blade when running.

2. Wear Saftey Glasses.

3. Setup good Dust Collection.

4. Panel cutting jig that you can clamp your material to.

Ben





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:46 PM, jimofc300 <jim@...> wrote:

> I've heard that fiberglass causes a lot of wear on saw blades. Can anyone
> estimate how many boards a blade can cut before replacement? Should I buy a
> ba


I'd also suggest a diamond blade.

Some cheap ones here.
http://www.lopacki.com/sawblades/


Be sure to wear a mask, you don't want to breath that dust.

-- 
carl
--------------------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ    hcarlott@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is a good source of diamond blades - did you see the drill press?  $145 shipped with 0-8600 RPM....  not a bad price.

http://www.lopacki.com/drills/ (at bottom of page)

Do you have any experience with that drill press?

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "H. Carl Ott" <hcarlott@...> wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:46 PM, jimofc300 <jim@...> wrote:
> 
> > I've heard that fiberglass causes a lot of wear on saw blades. Can anyone
> > estimate how many boards a blade can cut before replacement? Should I buy a
> > ba
> 
> 
> I'd also suggest a diamond blade.
> 
> Some cheap ones here.
> http://www.lopacki.com/sawblades/
> 
> 
> Be sure to wear a mask, you don't want to breath that dust.
> 
> -- 
> carl
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ    hcarlott@...
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My regular HSS scroll saw blades are good for about a foot of pcb then 
they're toast.  However, that's putting all the wear on only a few teeth.

If you use a fence, the piece between the blade and the fence should be 
at least twice as long (parallel with the fence) as it is wide (between 
blade and fence) to reduce the risk of kickback.  If it's not long 
enough, or too wide, use a miter or sled instead.  I suspect for most 
pcb projects, a sled would be appropriate.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> My regular HSS scroll saw blades are good for about a foot of pcb then 
> they're toast.  However, that's putting all the wear on only a few teeth.

Yep, that has been my experience also with any saw using "saber saw" type blades.  A band saw would last longer since all teeth on blade are used, but it's still going to get dull pretty quick.  HSS drill bits also dull fast. Carbide bits are the ONLY way to go for me.

I expect a diamond saw blade is better for the same reason.

Ken H>

I wear a dust mask when machine sawing PCB fiberglas.  FWIW, the band saw does a very good job.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> My regular HSS scroll saw blades are good for about a foot of pcb then 
> they're toast.  However, that's putting all the wear on only a few teeth.
> 
> If you use a fence, the piece between the blade and the fence should be 
> at least twice as long (parallel with the fence) as it is wide (between 
> blade and fence) to reduce the risk of kickback.  If it's not long 
> enough, or too wide, use a miter or sled instead.  I suspect for most 
> pcb projects, a sled would be appropriate.
>

A diamond blade will certainly work for cutting PCB, but it would be lousy for cutting aluminum, one of the other requirements mentioned by the OP. For that, the best option would be a carbide tipped saw blade. I don't know if that is available for the dremel table saw.

I would suspect a carbide tipped saw blade might also be a good choice for cutting PCB, but I don't know that from personal experience.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@> wrote:
> >
> > My regular HSS scroll saw blades are good for about a foot of pcb then 
> > they're toast.  However, that's putting all the wear on only a few teeth.
> 
> Yep, that has been my experience also with any saw using "saber saw" type blades.  A band saw would last longer since all teeth on blade are used, but it's still going to get dull pretty quick.  HSS drill bits also dull fast. Carbide bits are the ONLY way to go for me.
> 
> I expect a diamond saw blade is better for the same reason.
> 
> Ken H>
>

I agree with you Andrew - and I think a carbide saw for cutting PCB would be ok (carbide bits sure drill good), but I don't know of a small carbide blade.  The only carbide blades I have are 8" and 10" for larger saws.

A carbide would cut "thin" aluminum ok, but darn I'd wish to be careful and wear protection - eye, hand, and arm for protection from small flying aluminum chips?

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:

>
> A diamond blade will certainly work for cutting PCB, but it would be lousy for cutting aluminum, one of the other requirements mentioned by the OP. For that, the best option would be a carbide tipped saw blade. I don't know if that is available for the dremel table saw.
> 
> I would suspect a carbide tipped saw blade might also be a good choice for cutting PCB, but I don't know that from personal experience.
>

sailingto wrote:
> I agree with you Andrew - and I think a carbide saw for cutting PCB would be ok (carbide bits sure drill good), but I don't know of a small carbide blade.  The only carbide blades I have are 8" and 10" for larger saws.
>
> A carbide would cut "thin" aluminum ok, but darn I'd wish to be careful and wear protection - eye, hand, and arm for protection from small flying aluminum chips?
>
> Ken H>
>
>   
There are some carbide tipped blades in the 4" range for woodworking 
biscuit cutters.  They are possibly too coarse (i.e. 6 or 8 tooth) for 
thin stock, but who knows - might work.  The other problem would be the 
arbor size - I believe they are 5/8", not 1/2".

Norm

Proxxon makes a solid carbide blade for their small table saw.

ST

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Norm <w6nim@...> wrote:

>>
> There are some carbide tipped blades in the 4" range for woodworking
> biscuit cutters.  They are possibly too coarse (i.e. 6 or 8 tooth) for
> thin stock, but who knows - might work.  The other problem would be the
> arbor size - I believe they are 5/8", not 1/2".
>
> Norm
>
>

Hi pcb folks
I use a harbor freight tile saw with the 4"diamond blade and I use it wet.
with a slide to hold it.
works very well.
Regards
Robert


james hardy wrote:

> I would go along with Bob Macklin and use something other than a Dremel tool of any sort since attachments are so expensive.  Having more copper clad than I could possibly ever use, I'm not concerned with drop wasted from cutting so I use discarded a masonry blade on a table mounted circular saw. This set up will also cut fairly thick steel, though like with PCBs it leaves rougher edge than desired but a hand file makes short work of that.
>
> James
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2977 - Release Date: 07/02/10 00:35:00
>
>

Robert, will that diamond blade cut aluminum?  Of the thin type normally used for fab'ing cabinets, etc?

I do like the looks of that - $60 for it 'n blade, with water would have very little dust flying around.  

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Blumer <bob@...> wrote:

>
> Hi pcb folks
> I use a harbor freight tile saw with the 4"diamond blade and I use it wet.
> with a slide to hold it.
> works very well.
> Regards
> Robert

Ken,
I have not cut aluminum.
 I have not had a need to try it yet.
If I do, I will let you know how it worked.
Robert

sailingto wrote:

> Robert, will that diamond blade cut aluminum?  Of the thin type normally used for fab'ing cabinets, etc?
>
> I do like the looks of that - $60 for it 'n blade, with water would have very little dust flying around.  
>
> Ken H>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Blumer <bob@...> wrote:
>   
>> Hi pcb folks
>> I use a harbor freight tile saw with the 4"diamond blade and I use it wet.
>> with a slide to hold it.
>> works very well.
>> Regards
>> Robert
>>     
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2977 - Release Date: 07/02/10 00:35:00
>
>

I have not tried it, so take this with a grain of salt (you will anyway, right? :), but I would expect a diamond blade to be pretty awful for cutting aluminum. The problem is that aluminum is relatively soft and smeary, and it would, I think, tend to gum up the diamond. Note that mild steel is even worse with a diamond blade, unless the speed and heat are very carefully controlled -- the carbon (diamond) and the steel react, and pretty soon the diamond is gone. Or so I understand -- I haven't wanted to experiment to verify this!

In the metal working world, aluminum is quite often cut with an ordinary woodworking saw and a carbide blade. I have personally cut 1/4" thick aluminum sheet with a 7-1/4" circular saw; I know of many people who cut it on a table saw. If you try this, USE EYE PROTECTION!!! As Ken suggested in an earlier post, the chips are really nasty -- hot, sharp, and plentiful. Also, please be extremely careful about kickback. If you are not sure what you are doing with this, I would advise not doing it!

As for a smaller circular saw carbide-tipped blade -- they make 4" or so diameter blades for small battery-powered cutoff saws, and they do make carbide-tipped versions. I have bought one at either Home Depot or Lowes before.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Blumer <bob@...> wrote:

>
> Ken,
> I have not cut aluminum.
>  I have not had a need to try it yet.
> If I do, I will let you know how it worked.
> Robert
> 
> sailingto wrote:
> > Robert, will that diamond blade cut aluminum?  Of the thin type normally used for fab'ing cabinets, etc?
> >
> > I do like the looks of that - $60 for it 'n blade, with water would have very little dust flying around.  
> >
> > Ken H>
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Blumer <bob@> wrote:
> >   
> >> Hi pcb folks
> >> I use a harbor freight tile saw with the 4"diamond blade and I use it wet.
> >> with a slide to hold it.
> >> works very well.
> >> Regards
> >> Robert
> >>     
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2977 - Release Date: 07/02/10 00:35:00
> >
> >
>

I use an abrasive saw blade on a 7 1/4" circular saw, which was originally a 14" (I think) saw  blade which has been worn down and discarded.  The arbor for both sized saws is the same size.

Of course all precautions apply.  Taking care not to breath the fiberglass dust or let it anywhere you wouldn't want it, like on your skin.  Use a vacuum attachment