Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-16 by acidblue
How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
Thread
Single sided PCB ?
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by Andrew
There are two answers to this question.
1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@...> wrote:
>
> How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by acidblue
There isn't a 'Layer" section in the general settings.
using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:
>
> There are two answers to this question.
>
> 1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
>
> 2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> >
> > How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
> >
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by Andrew
Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@...> wrote:
>
> There isn't a 'Layer" section in the general settings.
> using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> >
> > There are two answers to this question.
> >
> > 1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
> >
> > 2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > >
> > > How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
> > >
> >
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by acidblue
Wow, that is interesting.
I don't have that 'Layer' option in my version.
That space is blank, I just have the 'Max Links' and 'Auto Save'.
I'm using this on Ubuntu 9.10.
I don't have that 'Layer' option in my version.
That space is blank, I just have the 'Max Links' and 'Auto Save'.
I'm using this on Ubuntu 9.10.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:
>
> Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
>
> Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> >
> > There isn't a 'Layer" section in the general settings.
> > using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There are two answers to this question.
> > >
> > > 1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
> > >
> > > 2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by James
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Isn't layer different from side? I always thought a double sided board was a single layer, and multilayer boards consist of multiple double sided boards sandwiched together.
> Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
>
> Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by Andrew
I'm running on Ubuntu 10.4; the version of Kicad that I'm running is what was loaded from Synaptic Package Manager. I'll try downloading the latest version of Kicad and see what it does.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@...> wrote:
>
> Wow, that is interesting.
> I don't have that 'Layer' option in my version.
> That space is blank, I just have the 'Max Links' and 'Auto Save'.
> I'm using this on Ubuntu 9.10.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
> >
> > Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There isn't a 'Layer" section in the general settings.
> > > using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There are two answers to this question.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by Andrew
James, you may be right -- I don't know enough about the way these terms are "properly" used. In KiCad, though, a 1-layer board is a single-sided board; a 2-layer board is a double-sided board; and additional layers beyond that involve internal layers.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
> >
> > Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
> >
>
>
> Isn't layer different from side? I always thought a double sided board was a single layer, and multilayer boards consist of multiple double sided boards sandwiched together.
>
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by Stefan Trethan
With layer one usually counts the copper layers.
So double sided is 2 layer, one substrate.
4 layer can be two double-sided boards laminated together with a
prepreg, for example.
ST
So double sided is 2 layer, one substrate.
4 layer can be two double-sided boards laminated together with a
prepreg, for example.
ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:22 PM, James <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>
> Isn't layer different from side? I always thought a double sided board was a single layer, and multilayer boards consist of multiple double sided boards sandwiched together.
>
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by Andrew
Okay, I downloaded the latest version of KiCad (20100505) and tried it out. Wow, they have changed the interface around some!
It looks like now you select the number of layers using the Design Rules / Layers Setup command. This will NOT let you select fewer than two layers. It looks like it ought to let you disable a layer, but these does not seem to work on the actual "copper" layers, only on the solder mask, silk screen, etc. layers.
However, with a little experimenting it seems you can do a couple of things. 1) You can change one of the layers from "signal" to "jumper." When you autoroute, it will create vias for you to put in wire jumpers on the blank side of the board as needed. 2) You can display the Layers Manager toolbar (Preferences / Show Layers Manager). On the Layer tab of the tool bar, you can click on the box next to the layer you don't want routed (e.g., the front layer for a single-sided board with copper on the bottom). When you auto-route, it will still route tracks with vias, but won't route anything on the other layer.
These work-arounds may not quite be what you are wanting. You could see if you could install an archive version of Kicad to get back to the ability to have a single layer. Or you could do what I do -- manually route. :)
It looks like now you select the number of layers using the Design Rules / Layers Setup command. This will NOT let you select fewer than two layers. It looks like it ought to let you disable a layer, but these does not seem to work on the actual "copper" layers, only on the solder mask, silk screen, etc. layers.
However, with a little experimenting it seems you can do a couple of things. 1) You can change one of the layers from "signal" to "jumper." When you autoroute, it will create vias for you to put in wire jumpers on the blank side of the board as needed. 2) You can display the Layers Manager toolbar (Preferences / Show Layers Manager). On the Layer tab of the tool bar, you can click on the box next to the layer you don't want routed (e.g., the front layer for a single-sided board with copper on the bottom). When you auto-route, it will still route tracks with vias, but won't route anything on the other layer.
These work-arounds may not quite be what you are wanting. You could see if you could install an archive version of Kicad to get back to the ability to have a single layer. Or you could do what I do -- manually route. :)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:
>
> I'm running on Ubuntu 10.4; the version of Kicad that I'm running is what was loaded from Synaptic Package Manager. I'll try downloading the latest version of Kicad and see what it does.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> >
> > Wow, that is interesting.
> > I don't have that 'Layer' option in my version.
> > That space is blank, I just have the 'Max Links' and 'Auto Save'.
> > I'm using this on Ubuntu 9.10.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
> > >
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
> > >
> > > Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There isn't a 'Layer" section in the general settings.
> > > > using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There are two answers to this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-17 by acidblue
Thanks for the replies Andrew.
I've done as few manual routes before, but it can be a pain sometimes,
specially when you have a lot of parts.
Not to mention time consuming.
I like the auto router in Kicad, it usually does a good job, IMHO.
For a 2 sided board it seems to work fine, for me anyway.
Was looking for an easier way to do 1 sided boards, I like to
etch my own boards before sending off to a fab house, just to make sure they work. Was hoping I could get Kicad to do it for me.
I'll have to try your 'work arounds' and see if that works.
thanks.
I've done as few manual routes before, but it can be a pain sometimes,
specially when you have a lot of parts.
Not to mention time consuming.
I like the auto router in Kicad, it usually does a good job, IMHO.
For a 2 sided board it seems to work fine, for me anyway.
Was looking for an easier way to do 1 sided boards, I like to
etch my own boards before sending off to a fab house, just to make sure they work. Was hoping I could get Kicad to do it for me.
I'll have to try your 'work arounds' and see if that works.
thanks.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, I downloaded the latest version of KiCad (20100505) and tried it out. Wow, they have changed the interface around some!
>
> It looks like now you select the number of layers using the Design Rules / Layers Setup command. This will NOT let you select fewer than two layers. It looks like it ought to let you disable a layer, but these does not seem to work on the actual "copper" layers, only on the solder mask, silk screen, etc. layers.
>
> However, with a little experimenting it seems you can do a couple of things. 1) You can change one of the layers from "signal" to "jumper." When you autoroute, it will create vias for you to put in wire jumpers on the blank side of the board as needed. 2) You can display the Layers Manager toolbar (Preferences / Show Layers Manager). On the Layer tab of the tool bar, you can click on the box next to the layer you don't want routed (e.g., the front layer for a single-sided board with copper on the bottom). When you auto-route, it will still route tracks with vias, but won't route anything on the other layer.
>
> These work-arounds may not quite be what you are wanting. You could see if you could install an archive version of Kicad to get back to the ability to have a single layer. Or you could do what I do -- manually route. :)
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm running on Ubuntu 10.4; the version of Kicad that I'm running is what was loaded from Synaptic Package Manager. I'll try downloading the latest version of Kicad and see what it does.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Wow, that is interesting.
> > > I don't have that 'Layer' option in my version.
> > > That space is blank, I just have the 'Max Links' and 'Auto Save'.
> > > I'm using this on Ubuntu 9.10.
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm ... I'm running version 20090216. Surely they haven't taken this feature out in the newer version that you are running?? Just to be sure, here is a screenshot of the dialog that comes up when I click on Preferences/General in PCBnew:
> > > >
> > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/screenshot.png
> > > >
> > > > Notice the section "Layers" with a set of radio buttons to choose 1, 2, 4, or more.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There isn't a 'Layer" section in the general settings.
> > > > > using Build 20100314 SVN-R2462-final
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <a_wake@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are two answers to this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Manually route, and just do so one the desired side of the board. I usually manually route most if not all of the traces on my boards; I'm rarely if ever satisfied with what the auto-routers come up with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Tell KiCad that your board is single layer only -- in PCBnew, click on Preferences, then on General. Click on the desired number of layers (1 in this case). Click okay, and you are good to go.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "acidblue" <sunblaster5@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How do I get Kicad to make traces just on one side of the PCB?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-19 by James
> Or you could do what I do -- manually route. :)I have *never* got acceptable results from autorouting with any PCB software I've tried. I'm not sure if I'm just not knowledgeable enough to do it right or if it's just not designed for single layer boards but whenever I have tried it has just made a huge mess. Rat's nest of traces running every which way, 3x as many jumpers as a manual route, and even then there are usually a few traces it can't find routes for. Neat idea, but useless in practice, I too always manually route and the boards come out really nice.
>
>
Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Single sided PCB ?
2010-05-19 by Leon Heller
On 19/05/2010 02:26, James wrote:
wouldn't use it on single-sided boards. If I did, I'd route them as
double-sided with the bias set to minimum tracks on the top layer. I'd
then make the few top layer tracks wire jumpers. It should do a good job.
Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM
> I have *never* got acceptable results from autorouting with any PCB software I've tried. I'm not sure if I'm just not knowledgeable enough to do it right or if it's just not designed for single layer boards but whenever I have tried it has just made a huge mess. Rat's nest of traces running every which way, 3x as many jumpers as a manual route, and even then there are usually a few traces it can't find routes for. Neat idea, but useless in practice, I too always manually route and the boards come out really nice.The Pulsonix autorouter (it's actually Electra) is very good, but I
wouldn't use it on single-sided boards. If I did, I'd route them as
double-sided with the bias set to minimum tracks on the top layer. I'd
then make the few top layer tracks wire jumpers. It should do a good job.
Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM