Homebrew PCBs

I'm often finding that my toner transfer boards are ALMOST usable, but have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by hand before etching.

I've seen it said several places that ordinary Sharpie markers make suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually remember buying an old Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and called it a "resist ink pen").

I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand "ultra fine-point, super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right thought the ink.  

Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink?  Are there any recommendations on something better?

> Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink?  Are there any 
> recommendations on something better?


I think it's the red ones that work.

Tony

They say that WhiteOut works well, but I've never been able to get fine 
enough lines with it.  If it's only a couple of spots, you could try 
masking it off first.  For that matter, you could lay some tape down and 
cut away what you don't want masked with an Exacto knife.

Sharpies work, but you need to get a thick layer.  Dab at it to get the 
ink flowing.  This also make fine lines difficult.

Kerry


andrewmv@... wrote:
> I'm often finding that my toner transfer boards are ALMOST usable, but have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by hand before etching.
>
> I've seen it said several places that ordinary Sharpie markers make suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually remember buying an old Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and called it a "resist ink pen").
>
> I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand "ultra fine-point, super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right thought the ink.  
>
> Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink?  Are there any recommendations on something better?
>   


-- 
Kerry Wentworth
The Skunk Works
85 N Main St
Boscawen, NH 03303
603 753-8933

On 28/04/2010 15:17, andrewmv@... wrote:
> I'm often finding that my toner transfer boards are ALMOST usable, but have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by hand before etching.
>
> I've seen it said several places that ordinary Sharpie markers make suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually remember buying an old Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and called it a "resist ink pen").
>
> I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand "ultra fine-point, super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right thought the ink.
>
> Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink?  Are there any recommendations on something better?


Staedtler makes very good ones. I used to use them.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Leon Heller <leon355@...>wrote:

>
>
> On 28/04/2010 15:17, andrewmv@... <andrewmv%40ymail.com> wrote:
> > I'm often finding that my toner transfer boards are ALMOST usable, but
> have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by hand before etching.
> >
> > I've seen it said several places that ordinary Sharpie markers make
> suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually remember buying an old
> Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and called it a "resist
> ink pen").
> >
> > I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand "ultra fine-point,
> super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right thought the ink.
> >
> > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> recommendations on something better?
>
> Staedtler makes very good ones. I used to use them.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>

What particular Staedtler pens did you use as resist-ink?

-Andrew


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am doing double sided etching of Brass, Beryllium Copper, and Phosphor Bronze to make small parts, and I find that when using a
Sharpie or Staedtler, a quickly stroked line that is semi-opaque will resist FeCl for only a few minutes. However, if carefully laid
down so as to be fully opaque, will resist for over an hour. CuCl seems to penetrate more quickly. Just my experiences.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andrewmv@...
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 07:17
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens

 

  

I'm often finding that my toner transfer boards are ALMOST usable, but have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by hand
before etching.

I've seen it said several places that ordinary Sharpie markers make suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually remember buying
an old Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and called it a "resist ink pen").

I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand "ultra fine-point, super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right thought the ink. 

Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any recommendations on something better?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, the ones we use at work are "red" label black sharpies. Ore  
specifically, industrial acid resistant.  It takes forever to scrub  
these off with 91% alcohol.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:21 AM, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...>  
wrote:

> > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> > recommendations on something better?
>
> I think it's the red ones that work.
>
> Tony
>
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Very poor luck with the sharpie pens, they "sort of" work, even the special red ones only "sort of work". They come off in the tank. (bubbling HCl/H2O2)

Best I have found is nail polish...

Even better is the toner, so most times it easier to reprint and re-transfer the board than to fix a bad one.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Dave Bobb <dave.bobb@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, the ones we use at work are "red" label black sharpies. Ore  
> specifically, industrial acid resistant.  It takes forever to scrub  
> these off with 91% alcohol.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:21 AM, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> > > recommendations on something better?
> >
> > I think it's the red ones that work.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Staedtler lumocolor permanent OHP pen red.
Also get the refill tank, you need to lay down a solid line which
works best with a fresh pen.



Recently I came across a really fine line paint marker, Edding 780.
<http://www.nierle3.com/pic/4341p.jpg>

I got the white one to mark black plastic. It lays down a thick laquer
that doesn't come off with alcohol. I really think that would work
well, and unless other paint markers the line is reasonably thin,
under 1mm.

ST

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...> wrote:

>
> What particular Staedtler pens did you use as resist-ink?
>
> -Andrew
>
>

________________________________

From: Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 28 April, 2010 18:18:06
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Leon Heller <leon355@...>wrote:

>
>
> On 28/04/2010 15:17, andrewmv@... <andrewmv%40ymail.com> wrote:
> > I'm often finding that my toner transfer boards are ALMOST usable, but
> have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by hand before etching.
> >
> > I've seen it said several places that ordinary Sharpie markers make
> suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually remember buying an old
> Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and called it a "resist
> ink pen").
> >
> > I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand "ultra fine-point,
> super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right thought the ink.
> >
> > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> recommendations on something better?
>
> Staedtler makes very good ones. I used to use them.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>

What particular Staedtler pens did you use as resist-ink?

-Andrew

Lumocolor Permanent.

Leon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Use fine piont CD/DVD Marker pens available at staples or even at the statioary aisle at the large pharmacies.

Mike

--- On Thu, 4/29/10, LEON HELLER <leon355@...> wrote:

> From: LEON HELLER <leon355@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 4:41 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       
> 
> 
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
> From: Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@gmail.
> com>
> 
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@
> yahoogroups. com
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, 28 April, 2010 18:18:06
> 
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Leon Heller <leon355@btinternet.
> com>wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > On 28/04/2010 15:17, andrewmv@ymail.
> com <andrewmv%40ymail. com> wrote:
> 
> > > I'm often finding that my toner transfer
> boards are ALMOST usable, but
> 
> > have a few trace breaks that need to be touched up by
> hand before etching.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > I've seen it said several places that
> ordinary Sharpie markers make
> 
> > suitable resist-ink for this purpose (I actually
> remember buying an old
> 
> > Radio Shack home PCB kit that came with a Sharpie and
> called it a "resist
> 
> > ink pen").
> 
> > >
> 
> > > I recently tried this using a Sharpie-brand
> "ultra fine-point,
> 
> > super-permanent ink" pen, but the FeCl ate right
> thought the ink.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as
> resist-ink? Are there any
> 
> > recommendations on something better?
> 
> >
> 
> > Staedtler makes very good ones. I used to use them.
> 
> >
> 
> > Leon
> 
> > --
> 
> > Leon Heller
> 
> > G1HSM
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> What particular Staedtler pens did you use as resist-ink?
> 
> 
> 
> -Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> Lumocolor Permanent.
> 
> 
> 
> Leon
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
>      
> 
>     
>     
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

This is actually exactly what I was using the first time around with
terrible results.

I've done a little experimentation, and gotten the industrial fine-point
sharpie pens to work perfectly - they seem to resist as well as the toner.

I found I was making two mistakes:

1) As has been pointed out by just about everybody on the list, I was
marking too lightly. Even a slightly darker line makes a significant
difference. I've gotten in the habit to retracing all my resist lines after
the ink dries - it doesn't take more than a few seconds.

2) I was originally etching using the "tankless" method of putting a few
tablespoons of room-temperature FeCL on a sponge and rubbing the copper off
the board.  This actually does work as advertised, but ONLY ON TONER - the
friction rubs every bit of resist ink off the board well before the etching
is complete.

It's also remarkably tedious and time consuming - I don't believe this
method is worth the trouble.

Using a simple hand-agitated etching tank, I couldn't tell the difference
between sharpie-resist and toner-resist.

-Andrew

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dave Bobb <dave.bobb@...> wrote:

>
>
> Yes, the ones we use at work are "red" label black sharpies. Ore
> specifically, industrial acid resistant. It takes forever to scrub
> these off with 91% alcohol.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:21 AM, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...<ajsmith%40beagle.com.au>>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> > > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> > > recommendations on something better?
> >
> > I think it's the red ones that work.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many years ago I used cellulose paint as resist, thinned somewhat and 
painted on the copper with s fine paintbrush. I used a centre punch to 
mark the holes through the pattern drawn on graph paper. I then put a 
small blob of paint on the punch marks and joined them up. The paint was 
very effective as a resist, and was easy to remove.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

I have used several similar ideas, some with more success than others. One technique I use sometimes is to polish the copper board with a Schotch Brite pae, then spray paint the entire board with spray can enamel (Krylon or similar). Then I locate the holes and use my cad program to draw outlines around the traces that are connected together, making each net an "island". I use a scribe to remove the paint in thin lines between islands, then etch only the copper exposed in the thin lines. This uses very little etchant since it leaves nearly all the copper on the board. This technique is quite time consuming drawing the lines to isolate the islands, but on a fairly simple board it works well. I will post a sample file online to help clarify the technique.

Years ago I had access to a CNC laser system that could be programmed to burn off the paint between traces, and that worked well, but the average hobbyist won't have that luxury!

I have also used paint pens rather than the Sharpie ink pens to draw traces on the board. These can be purchased from graphic art stores, such as Aaron Brothers, and are good for drawing fine lines. The paint resists etchant well, but takes a while to dry, so it takes longer to draw the lines on the PCB. 

I have not had much luck with toner transfer and usually cannot get it to release from the dry transfer sheet. This is probably due to my Brother laser printer which others have reported does not work well. I think the toner used in  Brother printers has too high a melting point or something similar. I had problems with an HP laser printer drawing lines made up of tiny dots that were not quite touching each other, resulting in a circuit board trace that looked like a screen, usually with breaks at numerous locations.

Bob




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob,

I've seen several tutorials on the laser engraving approach, which seems to
work very reproducibly.  Naturally, these all came from shops that had
access to an industrial laser engraver for other reasons.

small-shop laser engraving machines have started to emerge on the market in
the past few years - I've seen one as low as US$4,000.  Well outside of my
budget, but compared to some of the CNC milling approaches that I've seen
discussed here, it's actually very viable.

I've not specifically seen any of these low-end machines used for PCB
etching, though I wouldn't imagine there would be a problem.

-Andrew

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Bob Butcher <bbutcher85@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have used several similar ideas, some with more success than others. One
> technique I use sometimes is to polish the copper board with a Schotch Brite
> pae, then spray paint the entire board with spray can enamel (Krylon or
> similar). Then I locate the holes and use my cad program to draw outlines
> around the traces that are connected together, making each net an "island".
> I use a scribe to remove the paint in thin lines between islands, then etch
> only the copper exposed in the thin lines. This uses very little etchant
> since it leaves nearly all the copper on the board. This technique is quite
> time consuming drawing the lines to isolate the islands, but on a fairly
> simple board it works well. I will post a sample file online to help clarify
> the technique.
>
> Years ago I had access to a CNC laser system that could be programmed to
> burn off the paint between traces, and that worked well, but the average
> hobbyist won't have that luxury!
>
> I have also used paint pens rather than the Sharpie ink pens to draw traces
> on the board. These can be purchased from graphic art stores, such as Aaron
> Brothers, and are good for drawing fine lines. The paint resists etchant
> well, but takes a while to dry, so it takes longer to draw the lines on the
> PCB.
>
> I have not had much luck with toner transfer and usually cannot get it to
> release from the dry transfer sheet. This is probably due to my Brother
> laser printer which others have reported does not work well. I think the
> toner used in  Brother printers has too high a melting point or something
> similar. I had problems with an HP laser printer drawing lines made up of
> tiny dots that were not quite touching each other, resulting in a circuit
> board trace that looked like a screen, usually with breaks at numerous
> locations.
>
> Bob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Chinese laser engravers have gone down in price.. I have seen some as low as $1500. 
The problem I see with the lasers are, they work by burning off the paint and most of the paints I have tried leave behind a residue which needs a solvent to clean up which also removes the original paint. With the residue the copper does not etch well, it has always been a hit or miss on the boards I tried. I would like to see a boards done using a laser and also the details of the type of paint used so I can try it out once again. 
 
Kim

--- On Mon, 5/3/10, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 11:28 AM


Bob,

I've seen several tutorials on the laser engraving approach, which seems to
work very reproducibly.  Naturally, these all came from shops that had
access to an industrial laser engraver for other reasons.

small-shop laser engraving machines have started to emerge on the market in
the past few years - I've seen one as low as US$4,000.  Well outside of my
budget, but compared to some of the CNC milling approaches that I've seen
discussed here, it's actually very viable.

I've not specifically seen any of these low-end machines used for PCB
etching, though I wouldn't imagine there would be a problem.

-Andrew


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This tutorial claims to have solved this problem by using a laser engraving
machine with a vacuum system, and doing the engraving starting away from the
vacuum outlet and working toward the vacuum:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Custom-PCB-Prototyping-using-a-Laser-Cutter/

It notes that if you failed to get all the paint off on the first pass, then
the second pass will ruin the first one.

I had nothing to do with putting this tutorial together - I just recall
finding it a few weeks ago.

The machine used in the tutorial is a Epilog Legend 36 EXT.

-Andrew

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:40 PM, <kimvellore@...> wrote:

>
>
> The Chinese laser engravers have gone down in price.. I have seen some as
> low as $1500.
> The problem I see with the lasers are, they work by burning off the paint
> and most of the paints I have tried leave behind a residue which needs a
> solvent to clean up which also removes the original paint. With the residue
> the copper does not etch well, it has always been a hit or miss on the
> boards I tried. I would like to see a boards done using a laser and also the
> details of the type of paint used so I can try it out once again.
>
> Kim
>
>
> --- On Mon, 5/3/10, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...<andrewmv%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@... <andrewmv%40gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 11:28 AM
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I've seen several tutorials on the laser engraving approach, which seems to
> work very reproducibly.  Naturally, these all came from shops that had
> access to an industrial laser engraver for other reasons.
>
> small-shop laser engraving machines have started to emerge on the market in
> the past few years - I've seen one as low as US$4,000.  Well outside of my
> budget, but compared to some of the CNC milling approaches that I've seen
> discussed here, it's actually very viable.
>
> I've not specifically seen any of these low-end machines used for PCB
> etching, though I wouldn't imagine there would be a problem.
>
> -Andrew
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To be fair, I didn't immediately recognize that this was a $25k industrial
laser system.  Still, I wonder if a simpler device could be fitted with such
vacuum solution.

-Andrew

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...>wrote:

> This tutorial claims to have solved this problem by using a laser engraving
> machine with a vacuum system, and doing the engraving starting away from the
> vacuum outlet and working toward the vacuum:
>
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Custom-PCB-Prototyping-using-a-Laser-Cutter/
>
> It notes that if you failed to get all the paint off on the first pass,
> then the second pass will ruin the first one.
>
> I had nothing to do with putting this tutorial together - I just recall
> finding it a few weeks ago.
>
> The machine used in the tutorial is a Epilog Legend 36 EXT.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:40 PM, <kimvellore@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The Chinese laser engravers have gone down in price.. I have seen some as
>> low as $1500.
>> The problem I see with the lasers are, they work by burning off the paint
>> and most of the paints I have tried leave behind a residue which needs a
>> solvent to clean up which also removes the original paint. With the residue
>> the copper does not etch well, it has always been a hit or miss on the
>> boards I tried. I would like to see a boards done using a laser and also the
>> details of the type of paint used so I can try it out once again.
>>
>> Kim
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 5/3/10, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...<andrewmv%40gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@... <andrewmv%40gmail.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Resist ink pens
>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 11:28 AM
>>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I've seen several tutorials on the laser engraving approach, which seems
>> to
>> work very reproducibly.  Naturally, these all came from shops that had
>> access to an industrial laser engraver for other reasons.
>>
>> small-shop laser engraving machines have started to emerge on the market
>> in
>> the past few years - I've seen one as low as US$4,000.  Well outside of my
>> budget, but compared to some of the CNC milling approaches that I've seen
>> discussed here, it's actually very viable.
>>
>> I've not specifically seen any of these low-end machines used for PCB
>> etching, though I wouldn't imagine there would be a problem.
>>
>> -Andrew
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>  
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The particular laser I used was designed for another purpose and was a high power pulsed YAG laser capable of cutting thin metal. It would remove the paint cleanly, and multiple passes was not a problem. I am not sure what it cost, but a BMW would probably be much cheaper. The vacuum table was about 3 X 4 feet square! I just used it because I had access and it worked.

Excimer lasers are a good match for this application as well, since the UV light actually ablates the paint (a term for breaking chemical bonds and turning it into vapor). Again, cost is prohibitive. Now if someone wanted to make a small CNC table that moved a scribe around the board, that is more realistic, and perhaps there are new diode lasers that might be OK. 

Bob




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have had great luck using fine point sharpies stuck into home made adaptors and plotting directly onto FR4 with a slightly modified HP 7475  plotter. (modified to allow the use of full height pens)


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...> wrote:

>
> This is actually exactly what I was using the first time around with
> terrible results.
> 
> I've done a little experimentation, and gotten the industrial fine-point
> sharpie pens to work perfectly - they seem to resist as well as the toner.
> 
> I found I was making two mistakes:
> 
> 1) As has been pointed out by just about everybody on the list, I was
> marking too lightly. Even a slightly darker line makes a significant
> difference. I've gotten in the habit to retracing all my resist lines after
> the ink dries - it doesn't take more than a few seconds.
> 
> 2) I was originally etching using the "tankless" method of putting a few
> tablespoons of room-temperature FeCL on a sponge and rubbing the copper off
> the board.  This actually does work as advertised, but ONLY ON TONER - the
> friction rubs every bit of resist ink off the board well before the etching
> is complete.
> 
> It's also remarkably tedious and time consuming - I don't believe this
> method is worth the trouble.
> 
> Using a simple hand-agitated etching tank, I couldn't tell the difference
> between sharpie-resist and toner-resist.
> 
> -Andrew
> 
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dave Bobb <dave.bobb@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Yes, the ones we use at work are "red" label black sharpies. Ore
> > specifically, industrial acid resistant. It takes forever to scrub
> > these off with 91% alcohol.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:21 AM, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...<ajsmith%40beagle.com.au>>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> > > > recommendations on something better?
> > >
> > > I think it's the red ones that work.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Simple and effective...I love it!

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, bownes <bownes@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> I have had great luck using fine point sharpies stuck into home made
> adaptors and plotting directly onto FR4 with a slightly modified HP 7475
> plotter. (modified to allow the use of full height pens)
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is actually exactly what I was using the first time around with
> > terrible results.
> >
> > I've done a little experimentation, and gotten the industrial fine-point
> > sharpie pens to work perfectly - they seem to resist as well as the
> toner.
> >
> > I found I was making two mistakes:
> >
> > 1) As has been pointed out by just about everybody on the list, I was
> > marking too lightly. Even a slightly darker line makes a significant
> > difference. I've gotten in the habit to retracing all my resist lines
> after
> > the ink dries - it doesn't take more than a few seconds.
> >
> > 2) I was originally etching using the "tankless" method of putting a few
> > tablespoons of room-temperature FeCL on a sponge and rubbing the copper
> off
> > the board. This actually does work as advertised, but ONLY ON TONER - the
> > friction rubs every bit of resist ink off the board well before the
> etching
> > is complete.
> >
> > It's also remarkably tedious and time consuming - I don't believe this
> > method is worth the trouble.
> >
> > Using a simple hand-agitated etching tank, I couldn't tell the difference
> > between sharpie-resist and toner-resist.
> >
> > -Andrew
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Dave Bobb <dave.bobb@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, the ones we use at work are "red" label black sharpies. Ore
> > > specifically, industrial acid resistant. It takes forever to scrub
> > > these off with 91% alcohol.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Apr 28, 2010, at 10:21 AM, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith@...<ajsmith%
> 40beagle.com.au>>
>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Has anybody had lucks using Sharpies as resist-ink? Are there any
> > > > > recommendations on something better?
> > > >
> > > > I think it's the red ones that work.
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I won't be buying one any time soon.  Charles  AE5EW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Villeneuve <andrewmv@...> wrote:

>
> To be fair, I didn't immediately recognize that this was a $25k industrial
> laser system.  Still, I wonder if a simpler device could be fitted with such
> vacuum solution.
> 
> -Andrew