Homebrew PCBs

Anyone have any experience running a LPKF CNC machine?


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, what do you want to know. I have an LPKF machine. 

Trev

I have the machine with the original PC and software circa 1997 - I've never operated the machine and I cannot move the software to a newer machine the way the old machine is setup.  So I was thinking of trying the open source Linux CNC machine software that is available do you know if that software will work with the machine? 





________________________________

From: Trevor <trevor.white100@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 1:41:51 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF 93s

  
Hi, what do you want to know. I have an LPKF machine. 

Trev


 


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi.

Well I think your best bet is to sort out the original software. There 
is a lot to learn with these machines and the software that comes with 
them has a lot of built in information. For example depending on the 
tool, the drilling speed is variable and the travel rate is variable. 
When it comes to processing the files the software also does a lot of 
work for you. Also calibrating the machine and setting up registration 
for double sided boards is done via the software.

Where are you in the world? Also, are you able to boot the original 
computer up? There are two pieces of software. There is Boardmaster 
which drives the actual machine. This does not require a license. You 
need to know what version of that is on the machine. Then there is the 
CircuitCam software. This software is the one that takes the gerber 
files, etc and converts them into a format ready fo the Boardmaster to 
process and drive the machine accordingly.

The CircuitCam requires serial numbers to run. One of them is the s/n on 
the side of the machine. The other ones comes with the software and may 
well be found in the properties of CircuitCam if using version 3.

Trev



On 15/04/2010 03:03, John Michaud wrote:
>
> I have the machine with the original PC and software circa 1997 - I've 
> never operated the machine and I cannot move the software to a newer 
> machine the way the old machine is setup. So I was thinking of trying 
> the open source Linux CNC machine software that is available do you 
> know if that software will work with the machine?
>
> ________________________________
> From: Trevor <trevor.white100@... 
> <mailto:trevor.white100%40googlemail.com>>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 1:41:51 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF 93s
>
> Hi, what do you want to know. I have an LPKF machine.
>
> Trev
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old version of CircuitCam/Boardmaster on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of date (ISA bus) that I cannot use PCI add in cards. What I would like to do is find a XP version of the software and upgrade the computer to drive the system but the software is very expensive. So that is why I thought getting a open source software would work.  However not knowing the specs of the machine it would be difficult to just try and figure out the X/Y on the machine. I wonder if upgrading the boardmaster software would work then trying to find a software that would communicate to the boardmaster software.  I looked into the software upgrade
 last year and I believe that I was quoted around $700 for the upgrade for the 93s.  I'm living in the Portland Oregon area USA.

John





________________________________

From: Trevor White <trevor.white100@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 2:49:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF 93s

  
Hi.

Well I think your best bet is to sort out the original software. There 
is a lot to learn with these machines and the software that comes with 
them has a lot of built in information. For example depending on the 
tool, the drilling speed is variable and the travel rate is variable. 
When it comes to processing the files the software also does a lot of 
work for you. Also calibrating the machine and setting up registration 
for double sided boards is done via the software.

Where are you in the world? Also, are you able to boot the original 
computer up? There are two pieces of software. There is Boardmaster 
which drives the actual machine. This does not require a license. You 
need to know what version of that is on the machine. Then there is the 
CircuitCam software. This software is the one that takes the gerber 
files, etc and converts them into a format ready fo the Boardmaster to 
process and drive the machine accordingly.

The CircuitCam requires serial numbers to run. One of them is the s/n on 
the side of the machine. The other ones comes with the software and may 
well be found in the properties of CircuitCam if using version 3.

Trev

On 15/04/2010 03:03, John Michaud wrote:
>
> I have the machine with the original PC and software circa 1997 - I've 
> never operated the machine and I cannot move the software to a newer 
> machine the way the old machine is setup. So I was thinking of trying 
> the open source Linux CNC machine software that is available do you 
> know if that software will work with the machine?
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Trevor <trevor.white100@ googlemail. com 
> <mailto:trevor. white100% 40googlemail. com>>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:Homebrew_ PCBs%40yahoogrou ps.com>
> Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 1:41:51 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF 93s
>
> Hi, what do you want to know. I have an LPKF machine.
>
> Trev
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 06:06:56AM -0700, John Michaud wrote:
> Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old 
> version of CircuitCam/Boardmaster on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC 
> runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't 
> operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard 
> drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system 
> since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of 
> date (ISA bus)

There are several options for you. The hard discs, I suspect, are IDE 
drives and will probably be readable by any pre-SATA PC motherboard. You 
can boot the newer motherboard with a Linux live CD, and then make a 
bitwise copy of the disc to another IDE disc, or alternatively use some 
disc imaging software for Windows.

If that's not going to fly, you can also use a Linux live CD with the 
old PC, something lightweight like the Trinity Rescue Kit, and then make 
a bitwise copy of the discs over ethernet to another machine. You can do 
this with something like:

dd if=/dev/hda bs=128K | gzip -c | nc someothermachine 2000

and on the receiving machine:

nc -l 2000 > discdump.gz

I suspect you may also find ISA cards on eBay, there certainly should be 
ethernet cards and USB adapters. Win 3.1 may not support them but a 
Linux livecd may.

Ah - Yes that is a thought I would need to boot with a floppy since there is no CD-ROM installed.  I suppose I could ghost it over the LAN and see if that would work.  I also thought of just pulling the drives out and ghosting to new IDE drives and booting them in a modern system with windows 3.11 on a virtual machine. I suppose there are a few ways of getting the software off the drives just very limited with this PC.





________________________________

From: Dylan Smith <dyls@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 6:14:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF 93s

  
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 06:06:56AM -0700, John Michaud wrote:
> Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old 
> version of CircuitCam/Boardmas ter on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC 
> runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't 
> operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard 
> drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system 
> since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of 
> date (ISA bus)

There are several options for you. The hard discs, I suspect, are IDE 
drives and will probably be readable by any pre-SATA PC motherboard. You 
can boot the newer motherboard with a Linux live CD, and then make a 
bitwise copy of the disc to another IDE disc, or alternatively use some 
disc imaging software for Windows.

If that's not going to fly, you can also use a Linux live CD with the 
old PC, something lightweight like the Trinity Rescue Kit, and then make 
a bitwise copy of the discs over ethernet to another machine. You can do 
this with something like:

dd if=/dev/hda bs=128K | gzip -c | nc someothermachine 2000

and on the receiving machine:

nc -l 2000 > discdump.gz

I suspect you may also find ISA cards on eBay, there certainly should be 
ethernet cards and USB adapters. Win 3.1 may not support them but a 
Linux livecd may.


 


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well copying the drive or not, you need a faster machine because the
processsing of gerber data through CircuitCam used to take an age. On modern
PCs it takes a matter of a minute or so. I remember back in the day when I
first used the system. I would start the software and just go do something
else for 15mins.

Well regarding the software, I understand your situation. Can you get the
serial numbers from the original CircuitCam so  you are able to reinstall?
What version of CircuitCam are you using? I might have my original discs
somewhere for version 3 software. So, I would be able to send you a backup
version of your own software. I think that would all be legal.

Also, you really want to make sure you get a PC with a dedicated COM port. A
USB converter just causes more problems than its worth. It is to do with
overflow on buffers, etc and well the machine can easily lose data and mess
things up. It is best just to make sure you get the right PC. I bought an
old IBM off ebay that came with an XP license. It is a 3GhZ machine and
works great. It cost me �40.

As said, the Boardmaster software should just reinstall on a new machine.
You can give this a try yourself.

Actually, I just remembered and found the following link

http://www.lpkfusa.com/downloads.asp?category=SupportSoftware

This might help?

Trev



On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Dylan Smith <dyls@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 06:06:56AM -0700, John Michaud wrote:
> > Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old
> > version of CircuitCam/Boardmaster on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC
> > runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't
> > operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard
> > drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system
> > since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of
> > date (ISA bus)
>
> There are several options for you. The hard discs, I suspect, are IDE
> drives and will probably be readable by any pre-SATA PC motherboard. You
> can boot the newer motherboard with a Linux live CD, and then make a
> bitwise copy of the disc to another IDE disc, or alternatively use some
> disc imaging software for Windows.
>
> If that's not going to fly, you can also use a Linux live CD with the
> old PC, something lightweight like the Trinity Rescue Kit, and then make
> a bitwise copy of the discs over ethernet to another machine. You can do
> this with something like:
>
> dd if=/dev/hda bs=128K | gzip -c | nc someothermachine 2000
>
> and on the receiving machine:
>
> nc -l 2000 > discdump.gz
>
> I suspect you may also find ISA cards on eBay, there certainly should be
> ethernet cards and USB adapters. Win 3.1 may not support them but a
> Linux livecd may.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent - I have all the original software and serial numbers... Ya I have a several PCs to choose from here and all with dedicated serial ports. I'll give that a try. Thanks for all the useful info. I Googled LPFK and there are several college level papers on using similar machines so those will help me ramp up to being able to use the machine better.




________________________________

From: Trevor White <trevor.white100@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 6:23:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: LPKF 93s

Well copying the drive or not, you need a faster machine because the
processsing of gerber data through CircuitCam used to take an age. On modern
PCs it takes a matter of a minute or so. I remember back in the day when I
first used the system. I would start the software and just go do something
else for 15mins.

Well regarding the software, I understand your situation. Can you get the
serial numbers from the original CircuitCam so  you are able to reinstall?
What version of CircuitCam are you using? I might have my original discs
somewhere for version 3 software. So, I would be able to send you a backup
version of your own software. I think that would all be legal.

Also, you really want to make sure you get a PC with a dedicated COM port. A
USB converter just causes more problems than its worth. It is to do with
overflow on buffers, etc and well the machine can easily lose data and mess
things up. It is best just to make sure you get the right PC. I bought an
old IBM off ebay that came with an XP license. It is a 3GhZ machine and
works great. It cost me £40.

As said, the Boardmaster software should just reinstall on a new machine.
You can give this a try yourself.

Actually, I just remembered and found the following link

http://www.lpkfusa.com/downloads.asp?category=SupportSoftware

This might help?

Trev



On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Dylan Smith <dyls@alioth.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 06:06:56AM -0700, John Michaud wrote:
> > Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old
> > version of CircuitCam/Boardmaster on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC
> > runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't
> > operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard
> > drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system
> > since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of
> > date (ISA bus)
>
> There are several options for you. The hard discs, I suspect, are IDE
> drives and will probably be readable by any pre-SATA PC motherboard. You
> can boot the newer motherboard with a Linux live CD, and then make a
> bitwise copy of the disc to another IDE disc, or alternatively use some
> disc imaging software for Windows.
>
> If that's not going to fly, you can also use a Linux live CD with the
> old PC, something lightweight like the Trinity Rescue Kit, and then make
> a bitwise copy of the discs over ethernet to another machine. You can do
> this with something like:
>
> dd if=/dev/hda bs=128K | gzip -c | nc someothermachine 2000
>
> and on the receiving machine:
>
> nc -l 2000 > discdump.gz
>
> I suspect you may also find ISA cards on eBay, there certainly should be
> ethernet cards and USB adapters. Win 3.1 may not support them but a
> Linux livecd may.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, John Michaud <greyfox1143@...> wrote:
>
> Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old version of CircuitCam/Boardmaster on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of date (ISA bus) that I cannot use PCI add in cards. What I would like to do is find a XP version of the software and upgrade the computer to drive the system but the software is very expensive. So that is why I thought getting a open source software would work.  However not knowing the specs of the machine it would be difficult to just try and figure out the X/Y on the machine. I wonder if upgrading the boardmaster software would work then trying to find a software that would communicate to the boardmaster software.  I looked into the software upgrade
>  last year and I believe that I was quoted around $700 for the upgrade for the 93s.  I'm living in the Portland Oregon area USA.
> 
> John
> 
> 



This is easy, pop the drives out and image them using one of those cheap USB to IDE converters, or stick them in a slightly newer PC with multiple IDE ports, or plug in a null modem cable and transfer the data over the serial port, or remove one drive at a time, boot off a floppy or the backup drive you plug in, or pop an ISA ethernet card in the machine and copy over the network, etc. There are many simple and straightforward ways of doing this. You could even back it up to floppy disks, it's probably not very large. If you can get the software off, you can probably get it to run under XP too, or you could run a Win 3.1 virtual machine, Virtual PC is freely downloadable from MS, but that is probably not necessary, most 3.1 apps will work just fine under XP.

That said, I still have working PCs of that era in semi-regular use, so I would not worry too much about failure, especially if it was seldom used. Heck I still have a working hard drive for my Apple II that's pushing up on 30 years old.

There are also quite cheap bare bones USB hard disk adapters - take drive out of 486, plug into adapter, then clone it on virtually anything. I've had good results with sub $10 things on ebay like, uh ... roughly this http://3.ly/SMwG - very handy to have if you have IDE drives around with useful stuff on them.

PG

On 15/04/2010, at 11:14 PM, Dylan Smith wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 06:06:56AM -0700, John Michaud wrote:
> > Trevor - Yes the old PC is a 486DX system that is running a very old 
> > version of CircuitCam/Boardmaster on a Windows 3.11 platform. The PC 
> > runs but I'm so afraid that due to the age the hard drive won't 
> > operate very long. The real tragedy is the LPFK folks installed 2 hard 
> > drives in the system so there is really no way to ghost the system 
> > since there is no USB on the system and all the expansion is so out of 
> > date (ISA bus)
> 
> There are several options for you. The hard discs, I suspect, are IDE 
> drives and will probably be readable by any pre-SATA PC motherboard. You 
> can boot the newer motherboard with a Linux live CD, and then make a 
> bitwise copy of the disc to another IDE disc, or alternatively use some 
> disc imaging software for Windows.
.....