Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Toner transfer

2003-08-17 by shuttleau

All

I have started using the toner transfer process and it generally works
well for what I make.

One problem is the track edges. Sometime they are "ragged" , not a
straight line. The toner transfer on the copper is straight, but the
end result is not ?

I use a HP laser printer set to maximum toner and HP satin paper.

Any hints on why the edges are ragged ?

Thanks

ShuttleAU

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfer

2003-08-17 by Russell Shaw

shuttleau wrote:

> All
>
> I have started using the toner transfer process and it generally works
> well for what I make.
>
> One problem is the track edges. Sometime they are "ragged" , not a
> straight line. The toner transfer on the copper is straight, but the
> end result is not ?
>
> I use a HP laser printer set to maximum toner and HP satin paper.
>
> Any hints on why the edges are ragged ?

Heating and pressing causes the tracks to flatten out.

Re: Toner transfer

2003-08-17 by Dave Mucha

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "shuttleau" <shuttleau@y...>
wrote:

> All
>
> I have started using the toner transfer process and it generally

works

> well for what I make.
>
> One problem is the track edges. Sometime they are "ragged" , not a
> straight line. The toner transfer on the copper is straight, but the
> end result is not ?
>
> I use a HP laser printer set to maximum toner and HP satin paper.
>
> Any hints on why the edges are ragged ?
>
> Thanks
>
> ShuttleAU

if you aresaying the kines are not straight, then the paper is moving.

if you are saying the lines vary in thickness and or sharpness, then
the heat is spreading out the toner.

Re: Toner transfer

2003-08-17 by wheedal99

We probably need just a few more details to help guess at what is
causing the problems. What are you using to fuse the toner to the
copper? I use a cheap paper laminator that helps to keep the heat
and pressure consistant. It was hit and miss with the clothes iron I
used before.

Some things to check: If I don't tack down the toner right off the
bat (especially on 2 sided boards), the paper moves and I get partial
drop out and the lines can look like they jag a bit when the toner is
done fusing. Another variable is the paper carrier. I use magazine
stock and sometimes I'll get sheets that use a bit more recycled
paper pulp in the mix and the result can look a bit fuzzy because the
paper isn't all that flat. If I make certain I have plenty of good
quality (high clay content)paper you should be OK on that part.

I've got a short write up on what I do at:
http://myweb.cableone.net/wheedal/pcb.htm

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "shuttleau" <shuttleau@y...>
wrote:

> All
>
> I have started using the toner transfer process and it generally

works

> well for what I make.
>
> One problem is the track edges. Sometime they are "ragged" , not a
> straight line. The toner transfer on the copper is straight, but the
> end result is not ?

Toner transfer

2005-03-18 by Naveed Alam

In order to do toner transfer, which format should I use for printing the PCB on the paper?

Should it be BMP or WMF? Isn't the printing result of a BMP grainy as compared to the filled and continuous result of WMF?

PCB softwares allow me to export to other formats which are not images. Can anyone help me how to get PCB images from these files? Can I use Electronic Workbench for this purpose?

What is EWB layout, *.PLC?

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfer

2005-03-18 by Stefan Trethan

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:13:47 -0800 (PST), Naveed Alam
<naveedguy2@...> wrote:

>
> In order to do toner transfer, which format should I use for printing
> the PCB on the paper?
> Should it be BMP or WMF? Isn't the printing result of a BMP grainy as
> compared to the filled and continuous result of WMF?

You would need a lossless format. compressed is fine but lossless.
BMP is a raster pixel image, create it at the resolution your printer uses
and all is well.
WMF is in most cases equivalet vector graphic, but it is a very scary
format and can just as well be a bitmap. I do not use it.

You could also use .GIF or .PNG if you want low file size. they are
losless compressed image formats. again use the reaoution of your printer.
TIFF is another option many PCB programms support, i think it is lossless
compression too.

I do not really understand why your BMP should be grainy if the resolution
is right? If you describe the differences more cleary i might be able to
explain it. maybe send me both images off list (if smaller than 3Mb, maybe
zip).

> PCB softwares allow me to export to other formats which are not images.
> Can anyone help me how to get PCB images from these files?

If it exports gerber you can use a gerber viewer to print them. I hope
there is a free gerber viewer that can print...

> Can I use Electronic
> Workbench for this purpose?
> What is EWB layout, *.PLC?

Don't know anything about that.

ST

Re: Toner transfer Vector vs Raster

2005-03-19 by Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Naveed Alam <naveedguy2@y...> wrote:

>
> In order to do toner transfer, which format should I use for

printing the PCB on the paper?

>
> Should it be BMP or WMF? Isn't the printing result of a BMP grainy

as compared to the filled and continuous result of WMF?

As Stefan says, if you use a raster format like BMP, TIFF, or PNG, use
it at the resolution of your printer.

That can make a really huge file if your board is very big. 4x5 inches
at 1200dpi is 20 x 1,440,000 = 2.88 x 10^10 or about 30 Meg (assuming
greyscale). If your laser printer does not have 30 Meg, it won't print.

Someone who knows tell me- is the file converted to BW by the driver
or the printer itself?

Vector formats are superior to raster, if you can use them.

http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/VectorVsBitmap/

Steve Greenfield

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner transfer Vector vs Raster

2005-03-19 by Zoran A. Scepanovic

Hello Steve,

Saturday, March 19, 2005, 2:36:30 AM, you wrote:

S> That can make a really huge file if your board is very big. 4x5 inches
S> at 1200dpi is 20 x 1,440,000 = 2.88 x 10^10 or about 30 Meg (assuming
S> greyscale). If your laser printer does not have 30 Meg, it won't print.

S> Someone who knows tell me- is the file converted to BW by the driver
S> or the printer itself?

S> Vector formats are superior to raster, if you can use them.

S> http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/VectorVsBitmap/

S> Steve Greenfield

For PCB artwork, if you must use bitmap images, make them BW. They occupy less space. 4"x5" BW occupies some 3.4 Meg, GREYSCALE-4bit 13.7 Meg, GREYSCALE-8bit 27.4 Meg.

Think of ONE reason for having the PCB artwork made as greyscale image!

All written above was just tested on my computer.

For making my prototype boards, I print the copper layers through the PostScript printer driver to a PS file which I import to CorelDraw, tweak a little (fonts, logo, etc.) and then I give the CDR file to a friend running a prepress company to produce the graphic film. (You've guessed good - I use photo method for board production).

--
Sincerely,
ø¤º°``````````````````````````````````````````````````````°º¤ø
ZAS ElMed | mailto:zasto@...
| http://www.zas-elmed.co.yu
| Tel/Fax: +381 11 344-0748
|
Zoran A. Scepanovic | Mob: +381 63 609-993
º¤ø,¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸,¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸,ø¤º

*********
Any inanimate object, regardless of its position, configuration or purpose, may be expected to perform at any time in a totally unexpected manner for reasons that are either entirely obscure or else completely mysterious
*********

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Toner transfer

2005-03-22 by Naveed Alam

What can I do to clean the transferred toner after the etching process is complete?

Can't it be left there as it may do no harm? It will melt away where I solder manually just like plastic.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfer

2005-03-22 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Naveed Alam" <naveedguy2@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 3:18 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfer

>
>
> What can I do to clean the transferred toner after the etching process is
> complete?
>
> Can't it be left there as it may do no harm? It will melt away where I
> solder manually just like plastic.

It will make soldering difficult. Cellulose paint thinners on paper towel
works very well.

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner transfer

2005-03-22 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:18:02 -0800 (PST), Naveed Alam
<naveedguy2@...> wrote:

>
> What can I do to clean the transferred toner after the etching process
> is complete?
> Can't it be left there as it may do no harm? It will melt away where I
> solder manually just like plastic.

I use another board and scrape 99.99% off, then i wipe with acetone.
If you use paint thinner remember the ventilation, it is nasty stuff.

ST