Homebrew PCBs

I am not sure ..if I make a board and put in a hole with a 
diameter of 8.15 mm as a drill size...I'm not sure if this 
will be milled when I send it to a board house..
.. just think that the mashines automaticaly will mill if its not 
a drill size that exsist.
I also think that the outline of board will be what is milled 
in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
in eagle the outline is layer 20 dimension
so can any help me 
will a hole be milled when it is in the project as a tool of 8.15 mm
and will the board be milled along the dimension line in layer 20 of eagle.. 
I  will be glad for response as it will make it easier to discuss with the board house ,when I have som background from you.
alex

On 28/03/2010 13:45, christiansen_alex@... wrote:
> I am not sure ..if I make a board and put in a hole with a
> diameter of 8.15 mm as a drill size...I'm not sure if this
> will be milled when I send it to a board house..
> .. just think that the mashines automaticaly will mill if its not
> a drill size that exsist.
> I also think that the outline of board will be what is milled
> in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
> in eagle the outline is layer 20 dimension
> so can any help me
> will a hole be milled when it is in the project as a tool of 8.15 mm
> and will the board be milled along the dimension line in layer 20 of eagle..
> I  will be glad for response as it will make it easier to discuss with the board house ,when I have som background from you.
> alex

It should be in your board supplier spec.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Your board supplier must specify this (just ask).

The usual would be to mill diameters greater than 4mm anyway, so any
size is possible.
The board supplier usually does toolpath correction for you, that
means your board edge will be at the center of the dimension line.

Again, this is what I have encountered, your supplier might handle
things differently.

Eagle is rotten in so many ways I can't go into it or we will be here
a month. Try different packages to see what you miss. If you still
like it then you are lucky, weird, but lucky anyway. ;-)
For me using it is about as much fun as getting shampoo in my eyes or mouth.

ST

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:45 PM,  <christiansen_alex@...> wrote:
> I am not sure ..if I make a board and put in a hole with a
> diameter of 8.15 mm as a drill size...I'm not sure if this
> will be milled when I send it to a board house..
> .. just think that the mashines automaticaly will mill if its not
> a drill size that exsist.
> I also think that the outline of board will be what is milled
> in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
> in eagle the outline is layer 20 dimension
> so can any help me
> will a hole be milled when it is in the project as a tool of 8.15 mm
> and will the board be milled along the dimension line in layer 20 of eagle..
> I  will be glad for response as it will make it easier to discuss with the board house ,when I have som background from you.
> alex
>
>

> like it then you are lucky, weird, but lucky anyway. ;-)
> For me using it is about as much fun as getting shampoo in my eyes or mouth.
> 
thank you both to you and Leon for reply and a good laugh..
This is helping a lot,as I better know what I can expect and what I can ask for at the manufacturer..
I have tried several programs like T3000 and orcad .. Orcad seem  weird to me.. :) each time ..
alex

In the end, you must work with it. Eagle V5 is a bit better than V4
(what with clicking on items to edit them), but still not for me.
Who knows, maybe you are the one user Eagle was actually written for?

Most PCB manufacturers publish the specifications you are looking for
on their webpage, it might be worthwhile looking at different
manufacturers to get a feeling for this. There's a number of other
things to mind, like distance between drill holes, distance between
drill and edge, distance between copper and edge, minimum width of
traces, solderstop, silkscreen, tolerances, ...

A lot of rules to observe for a perfect trouble-free PCB, even more if
you add production requirements to actually stuff the boards. The good
thing is most of the rules are just for perfect results or to make the
life of the PCB manufacturer easy, many of them can be broken and you
will still get working boards. But strictly speaking you would need to
know and mind all of them to guarantee useful PCBs.

A good PCB supplier will ask you if something could mean trouble.
An average PCB supplier will just produce with the files and say it is
your fault when it ends up faulty.
A bad PCB supplier will change things around as he pleases, without
informing you.

ST

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 6:55 PM,  <christiansen_alex@...> wrote:
>
>
> thank you both to you and Leon for reply and a good laugh..
> This is helping a lot,as I better know what I can expect and what I can ask for at the manufacturer..
> I have tried several programs like T3000 and orcad .. Orcad seem  weird to me.. :) each time ..
> alex
>

> in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
>


My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then use it.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
> >
> 
> 
> My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then use it.
>

yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to use the Eagle  for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have downloaded it to try now.
but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and cheap programs that you know about..
I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for me.. :)
alex

Have you tried: http://www.4pcb.com/index.php?load=content&page_id=46

-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003

I am using EASAY PC since 1992 (early DOS version, now windows version 
V11, current is V13) nice programme, full version also not cheap.

Henning Weddig



christiansen_alex@... schrieb:

>  
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > > in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  > My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited 
> and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then 
> use it.
>  >
> 
> yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for 
> making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to 
> use the Eagle for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a 
> full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then 
> saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have 
> downloaded it to try now.
> but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and 
> cheap programs that you know about..
> I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for 
> me.. :)
> alex
> 
>

On 30/03/2010 15:59, christiansen_alex@... wrote:
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James"<jamesrsweet@...>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
>>>
>>
>>
>> My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then use it.
>>
>
> yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to use the Eagle  for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have downloaded it to try now.
> but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and cheap programs that you know about..
> I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for me.. :)

Try Easy-PC. I used it for about 20 years, until Pulsonix became available.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:59:07 -0000, you wrote:

>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> > in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then use it.
>>
>
>yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to use the Eagle  for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have downloaded it to try now.
>but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and cheap programs that you know about..
>I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for me.. :)

I'm happy enough with Eagle, so there must be two of us.  It has its
own quirks, but then again, every program has, as does every operating
system.  You pick quirks you can live with.

Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.

I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
if it saves you money.

Harvey

>alex
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> 
> yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to use the Eagle  for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have downloaded it to try now.
> but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and cheap programs that you know about..
> I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for me.. :)
> alex
>


I'm almost done with my latest board which is my first attempt with the new release of KiCad and I'm loving it. It has quirks like any other, but IMO it's as good as any I've tried, and it's completely free and completely un-crippled. I'm feeling really good about this so far being the package of choice that I can use for the foreseeable future.

> 
> Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> 
> I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> if it saves you money.
> 
> 


Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.

I think you will like Kicad.
Give it a try.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:30:57 -0000, you wrote:

>
>> 
>> Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
>> useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
>> the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
>> 
>> I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
>> if it saves you money.
>> 
>> 
>
>
>Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
>

1) it has features you want
2) you have time invested in it
3) you understand how it works
4) you find the free versions limited
5) the limitations on the other packages that are free are not what
you want.
6) it does what you want

Pick any or all of the above as you wish.  Free is not always the
determining factor, and you might be paying for something you want.

Harvey

>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I still use OrCad 386+ for dos.  can be found in yahoo group

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Weddig, Henning-Christof
<Henning-Christof.Weddig@desy.de> wrote:
> I am using EASAY PC since 1992 (early DOS version, now windows version
> V11, current is V13) nice programme, full version also not cheap.
>
> Henning Weddig
>
>
>
> christiansen_alex@... schrieb:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > > in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited
>> and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then
>> use it.
>>  >
>>
>> yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for
>> making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to
>> use the Eagle for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a
>> full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then
>> saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have
>> downloaded it to try now.
>> but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and
>> cheap programs that you know about..
>> I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for
>> me.. :)
>> alex
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003

I have been using diptrace Love the fast autorouter in that, it is free for 
hobby use.
Kim

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: another layout question


> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:30:57 -0000, you wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
>>> useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
>>> the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
>>>
>>> I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
>>> if it saves you money.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when 
>>there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is 
>>beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial 
>>package offered features that would make me significantly more productive 
>>then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in 
>>personal money.
>>
>
> 1) it has features you want
> 2) you have time invested in it
> 3) you understand how it works
> 4) you find the free versions limited
> 5) the limitations on the other packages that are free are not what
> you want.
> 6) it does what you want
>
> Pick any or all of the above as you wish.  Free is not always the
> determining factor, and you might be paying for something you want.
>
> Harvey
>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>
>>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
>>Photos:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

for the toppost people ..:)
Think what Harvey says ,is what we forget in many things ..

> 
> 1) it has features you want
> 2) you have time invested in it
> 3) you understand how it works
> 4) you find the free versions limited
> 5) the limitations on the other packages that are free are not what
> you want.
> 6) it does what you want
  Free is not always the
> determining factor,  
> Harvey
and for the bottom post people ..:)
I will try some of the recomended programs, as members here, that is satisfied with a program is worth listening to.. but ref point 2) ..maybe the invested time will be the reason to stay with eagle.
To a start I have downloaded the ...4PCB ... but if I can't use gerber ,it can not be it.... so ref 6) it is indeed what one need from a program that is most important.. in the start I did not know that I would make gerber files  ..did not even know what it was..
alex

> >
> 
> 1) it has features you want
> 2) you have time invested in it
> 3) you understand how it works
> 4) you find the free versions limited
> 5) the limitations on the other packages that are free are not what
> you want.
> 6) it does what you want
> 
> Pick any or all of the above as you wish.  Free is not always the
> determining factor, and you might be paying for something you want.
> 


Having dabbled with many of the packages out there, I've found that most of them are very similar in concept, that is once you've learned one, others are easy to pick up. I've found many of the free packages to be limited, but KiCad so far is as capable as any of the expensive commercial packages I've looked at. Anyone contemplating spending money ought to at least give it a look.

I also use Easy-PC at work and its really nice.  Wish it output G-code but thats just a wish list item.

Matt


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Weddig, Henning-Christof" <Henning-Christof.Weddig@...> wrote:

>
> I am using EASAY PC since 1992 (early DOS version, now windows version 
> V11, current is V13) nice programme, full version also not cheap.
> 
> Henning Weddig
> 
> 
> 
> christiansen_alex@... schrieb:
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "James" <jamesrsweet@> wrote:
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > > in eagle ...think eagle is pefect.. why is so many against it ?
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > My primary gripe with Eagle is that the free version is too limited 
> > and the pay version is too expensive. If it works for you though, then 
> > use it.
> >  >
> > 
> > yeah... its realy a problem with the boardsize..I had used T3000 for 
> > making bigger boards , but here the limit is 250 pin ..but as I have to 
> > use the Eagle for professional use, I was beginning to think buying a 
> > full eagel-version.. I have tried Circad but did not like it, and then 
> > saw in another post that it was actuall Kicad I schould try.. so have 
> > downloaded it to try now.
> > but 4 or 500 EUR for eagle ..is there full versions of other better and 
> > cheap programs that you know about..
> > I havent met any that loved Eagle so maybe they have made it just for 
> > me.. :)
> > alex
> > 
> >
>

Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:

>
> 
> > 
> > Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> > 
> > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> > if it saves you money.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
>

Charles,
  Welcome to the group. The question you have asked has come up a number of times and also debated quite a bit here but the bottom line is the best free program is personal, every one likes different ones based on their needs and experience.
Without going through why I dont like some of the other programs I'll say the one I liked the most is DIPTRACE.
 
Kim


--- On Tue, 4/13/10, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:

From: ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: another layout question
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 9:56 AM


Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > 
> > Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> > 
> > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> > if it saves you money.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

that was why I put 'best' in quotes.  Charles  AE5EW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kimvellore@... wrote:

>
> Charles,
>   Welcome to the group. The question you have asked has come up a number of times and also debated quite a bit here but the bottom line is the best free program is personal, every one likes different ones based on their needs and experience.
> Without going through why I dont like some of the other programs I'll say the one I liked the most is DIPTRACE.
>  
> Kim
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 4/13/10, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...>
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: another layout question
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 9:56 AM
> 
> 
> Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> > > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> > > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> > > 
> > > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> > > if it saves you money.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My system is WinXPPro SP3 32-bit.  AMD 64 x2 5200+  I have DosBox so I can most likely run most Dos software though I would prefer more modern products.  Charles  AE5EW

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kimvellore@... wrote:

>
> Charles,
>   Welcome to the group. The question you have asked has come up a number of times and also debated quite a bit here but the bottom line is the best free program is personal, every one likes different ones based on their needs and experience.
> Without going through why I dont like some of the other programs I'll say the one I liked the most is DIPTRACE.
>  
> Kim
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 4/13/10, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...>
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: another layout question
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 9:56 AM
> 
> 
> Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> > > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> > > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> > > 
> > > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> > > if it saves you money.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

ae5ew pravi:
>  
>
> Hi. I'm new here. How about a list of the 'best' free programs? 
> Charles AE5EW
>
EaglePCB is free for 1/2 euro format board.

As you'll see earlier in this thread, I like KiCad. Available for both Windows and Linux. I don't have nearly as much experience as others on this board, but it has been able to do anything I've wanted, and the learning curve did not seem bad.

Welcome to the group!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ae5ew" <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:

>
> Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> > > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> > > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> > > 
> > > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> > > if it saves you money.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
> >
>

Charles

Two free PCB programms I use are ExpressSCH and ExpressPCB. I use this for quick toner transfer PCB designs for one off. It does not give a Gerber file for volume production. The second is FreePCB with autorouter and uses TinyCAD for schematic capture and netlist generation. Will produce Gerber files for multiple boards from manufacturer and has an add on that generates printable circuits for toner transfer from Gerber files.

Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Tue, 4/13/10, ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:

From: ae5ew <ae5ew.us@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: another layout question
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 5:56 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, "James" <jamesrsweet@ ...> wrote:

>

> 

> > 

> > Have you checked into the student/non- profit version?  It might be

> > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within

> > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.

> > 

> > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade

> > if it saves you money.

> > 

> > 

> 

> 

> Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.

>





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kicad is by far the best free CAD program out there.
http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

I use it all the time, it's freaking awesome.
No limitations at all, runs on Winblows, Linux and I think Mac.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ae5ew" <ae5ew.us@...> wrote:

>
> Hi.  I'm new here.  How about a list of the 'best' free programs?  Charles  AE5EW
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "James" <jamesrsweet@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Have you checked into the student/non-profit version?  It might be
> > > useful if  you qualify.  Remember that the parts placement is within
> > > the limits, but traces and text can go anywhere.  That might help.
> > > 
> > > I'd go for the schematic and layout, but skip the autorouter upgrade
> > > if it saves you money.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why anyone would go with one that costs *anything* or is crippled when there are perfectly capable and completely *free* packages out there is beyond me though! If my employer were paying for it and a commercial package offered features that would make me significantly more productive then I'd look at costly packages, but I can't fathom spending hundreds in personal money.
> >
>

Eagle is pretty easy to learn, if you follow the tutorial. It's what I've been using since version 4.01, and works great under linux (linux version).
Some don't like it, but it does have a LOT of possibilities with it's scripts. The Autoroute is not half bad too, as long as you set up the DRC rules properly, which most people don't do and end up saying it's nothing but crap. It helps to read the manual first. ;-)
Some pcb shops also accept eagle brd files without having to output gerber first.

Whichever cad program you choose, do a google search for a tutorial for it. It'll save you tons of time on learning how to use it.

Marc

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, Slavko Kocjancic <eslavko@...> wrote:

>
> ae5ew pravi:
> >  
> >
> > Hi. I'm new here. How about a list of the 'best' free programs? 
> > Charles AE5EW
> >
> EaglePCB is free for 1/2 euro format board.
>