Homebrew PCBs

I was wondering if anyone knows how hot the GBC 1701870 can get?
I need a economical laminator that can do PCB's

oliverstwists wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows how hot the GBC 1701870 can get?
> I need a economical laminator that can do PCB's
>
>   
I got a GBC Personal Laminator off of eBay for $25, including shipping.  
It was from MyBinding.com, and it is blue.  Works great.  There was some 
question about whether it was the same as the one Pulsar sells, but it 
seems to be.  Did I mention that it works great?

Kerry

I have the GBC Personal Laminator Model H-65 Product No 1701987 (from Pulsar) which indicates ~200F on my RS IR Thermometer by
carefully aiming it through the feed slot at the rollers, and directly reading the board as it exits the machine after repetitive
passes. (I do ten passes on .008" phosphor bronze sheet, as thin sheet doesn't get as much pressure as PCB's) Note that the 1701987
is a dual temperature device. I also have a couple ($10 each on ebay) of GBC Creative Laminator Model Creative9 Product No 1701871
(single temp), that only reached about 135F, but I am experimenting with changing out the snap switches for higher heat. I know this
doesn't answer the original question, but may provide some useful relevant info.

BTW, I'm interested in what temperatures (read with IR) you guys are finding suitable, (and with how many passes) on these similar
GBC laminators.

Thanks,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Wentworth
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 8:50 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] laminator heat specs

 

  

oliverstwists wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows how hot the GBC 1701870 can get?
> I need a economical laminator that can do PCB's
>
> 
I got a GBC Personal Laminator off of eBay for $25, including shipping. 
It was from MyBinding.com, and it is blue. Works great. There was some 
question about whether it was the same as the one Pulsar sells, but it 
seems to be. Did I mention that it works great?

Kerry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...> writes:
> I also have a couple ($10 each on ebay) of GBC Creative Laminator
> Model Creative9 Product No 1701871 (single temp), that only reached
> about 135F,

Looks like this? http://www.delorie.com/electronics/laminator/

If to, it's got a 320 F cutoff in it, and despite what the board is on
the way out, seems to actually run at 320 F on the rollers.  I hacked
mine to support 240 F (UV film) and 350 F (toner).

No, nothing like it. They're  the same form factor as the Personal Laminator (from Pulsar), except for a single, rather than two
position switch on top, with no separate power sw. on the side. Also, it's light blue & light grey, as opposed to dark blue & dark
grey for the Personal version. The mechanicals are the same, electrical as well, except for single temp circuit. They all have only
power &  ready LED's, over temp breaker and thermal snap switch(s) for control.

BTW, my IR thermometer can 'see' the rollers through the input and output slots, and the reading of the board corresponds closely as
it comes out the 'back door', so I think it's mostly a matter of accuracy of the $20 tool. Eventually if I find it necessary, I will
make a variable controller and do away with the snap switches.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:52 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] laminator heat specs

 

  


"Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@... <mailto:Roger.Blair%40Comcast.net> > writes:
> I also have a couple ($10 each on ebay) of GBC Creative Laminator
> Model Creative9 Product No 1701871 (single temp), that only reached
> about 135F,

Looks like this? http://www.delorie.com/electronics/laminator/

If to, it's got a 320 F cutoff in it, and despite what the board is on
the way out, seems to actually run at 320 F on the rollers. I hacked
mine to support 240 F (UV film) and 350 F (toner).





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "oliverstwists" <oliverstwists@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows how hot the GBC 1701870 can get?
> I need a economical laminator that can do PCB's
>


I picked up a Scotch TL901 laminator for under $30. It worked fine out of the box, although it definitely needed more than one pass. I opened it up and found the plug for the temperature (thickness) selection switch had two unused positions, and each position went to a different value resistor. I popped another pin in the connector and added a switch to use the highest heat and it definitely made a difference. If more heat is desired, it would be easy to replace with a lower value resistor and a pot if you want variable control. Unfortunately I couldn't see an easy way to slow down the motor or modify the gearing for single pass, I tried lowering the frequency but it just starts skipping down around 40Hz.

As Roger says, looks nothing like your laminator Stefan, but exactly like the laminator sold by Pulsar. Using a digital thermometer to check the temperature of my rollers at the input side, I get the high setting (5 mil) to cut off around 270/300F or so if I remember correctly. I rigged up a temperature controller using a sensor to replace the 3 mil thermal switch.  Now I have a digital readout and a pot to set the setpoint.  I do most of my toner transfer 260F to 270F.

For $25 shipped, that laminator works like a CHAMP!!  I am so impressed with it I ordered a 2nd one for a spare just in case something happens to this one:)

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...> writes:
> > I also have a couple ($10 each on ebay) of GBC Creative Laminator
> > Model Creative9 Product No 1701871 (single temp), that only reached
> > about 135F,
> 
> Looks like this? http://www.delorie.com/electronics/laminator/
> 
> If to, it's got a 320 F cutoff in it, and despite what the board is on
> the way out, seems to actually run at 320 F on the rollers.  I hacked
> mine to support 240 F (UV film) and 350 F (toner).
>

Just a reminder.  There is a long thread discussing laminator heat specs.  It starts somewhere around message #7726 I think.

Lyman

"sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> writes:
> I do most of my toner transfer 260F to 270F.

260 F ?  Or 360 F ?

You ask a very good question there, I'm *almost* positive it's 260F, NOT 360F.  360 is almost up at 400F where the Brother laser I had required, but after changing to the HP P1006, the temperature requirements are less.

The temperature is read via a sensor mounted in place of the thermal switch I removed from $25 GBC laminator.  The readout from the sensor was calibrated against a digital thermometer held against the input side of rollers.  These are two different places and could be different.  The PCB material is HOT as it comes out the rollers, but I can still hold in my hand... gently.  If gripped tight, it would burn hand.  I never use a tool to handle the PCB as it's ran thru the rollers.

I do need to work on my temperature controller with some sort of PID code - now it turns power off as temp gets to setpoint -8F, then temp rises to setpoint +2F typically before cooling down.  At setpoint minus 10F (2F below where power is cycled off,) the heater is turned back on.  This cycle continues so my toner transfer takes place from around 260F to about 272F.  Run the PCB thru 6 or 8 times, I have very good results using either Pulsar toner transfer paper or HP presentation paper.

Those temperatures are NOT exact I'm sure, but I do think they are within a few degrees F.  I need to work on calibration more...  maybe put sensor in an ice water slush, then in boiling distilled water at sealevel.

Ken H.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> writes:
> > I do most of my toner transfer 260F to 270F.
> 
> 260 F ?  Or 360 F ?
>

"sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> writes:
> Run the PCB thru 6 or 8 times,

Hmmm.. I set mine at 340 F and run it through *once* and it works just
fine.

My sensor (I think a AD22100) only goes to 150C (302F) and provides the input voltage to an AVR ATmega168 chip - sorta limits how high the temperature can be controlled.

How many times thru depends on speed of rollers as well as temperature.  Since this is a cheap $25 laminator I sorta hated to ask a LOT of temperature from it.

Next PCB I'll try up around 280F and see how that works.  Seems like the laminator high temp thermal switch cuts off around 270F or so as measured at the roller input.

I am sure this is the same laminator sold by Pulsar.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> writes:
> > Run the PCB thru 6 or 8 times,
> 
> Hmmm.. I set mine at 340 F and run it through *once* and it works just
> fine.
>

Try opening it up and looking at the part numbers.  The roller temp
isn't always the same temp as the cutoff unless you can measure it
*between* the rollers.

Looking at part numbers?  Of what?  Thermal switch? I've looked at those numbers and did a search but couldn't find any data giving the cutoff temperature of the thermal switch. 

Ken

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Try opening it up and looking at the part numbers.  The roller temp
> isn't always the same temp as the cutoff unless you can measure it
> *between* the rollers.
>

Hi,

 

Long ago (20-plus years), when I worked in aerospace, we had little
paper strips that we attached inside a unit to find out how hot it got
during test. As I recall, they had dots which permanently changed color
at different temperatures. Google couldn't find them but maybe I didn't
ask it the right question. Has anyone else heard of these? Are they
still made? It seems they would be perfect for measuring roller
temperature. 

 

Jim

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:45 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: laminator heat specs

 

  


Try opening it up and looking at the part numbers. The roller temp
isn't always the same temp as the cutoff unless you can measure it
*between* the rollers.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Search for tempil  <http://www.tempil.com/> are the folks who make temperature-sensitive paper and plastic markers.

Donald.
----- "Jim Barnes" <jim@...> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> Long ago (20-plus years), when I worked in aerospace, we had little
> paper strips that we attached inside a unit to find out how hot it
> got
> during test. As I recall, they had dots which permanently changed
> color
> at different temperatures. Google couldn't find them but maybe I
> didn't
> ask it the right question. Has anyone else heard of these? Are they
> still made? It seems they would be perfect for measuring roller
> temperature. 
> 
>  
> 
> Jim
> 
>  
> 
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: laminator heat specs
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Try opening it up and looking at the part numbers. The roller temp
> isn't always the same temp as the cutoff unless you can measure it
> *between* the rollers.
> 
>

One of the items on <http://www.tempil.com/thumbnail.asp?cid=27> is the product you remember, I think.

Donald.
----- "Donald H Locker" <dhlocker@...> wrote:

> Search for tempil  <http://www.tempil.com/> are the folks who make
> temperature-sensitive paper and plastic markers.
> 
> Donald.
> ----- "Jim Barnes" <jim@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Long ago (20-plus years), when I worked in aerospace, we had little
> > paper strips that we attached inside a unit to find out how hot it
> > got
> > during test. As I recall, they had dots which permanently changed
> > color
> > at different temperatures. Google couldn't find them but maybe I
> > didn't
> > ask it the right question. Has anyone else heard of these? Are they
> > still made? It seems they would be perfect for measuring roller
> > temperature. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
> > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:45 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: laminator heat specs
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > Try opening it up and looking at the part numbers. The roller temp
> > isn't always the same temp as the cutoff unless you can measure it
> > *between* the rollers.
> > 
> >

Like this?

http://www.tmchallcrest.com/

Kerry

Jim Barnes wrote:

> Hi,
>
>  
>
> Long ago (20-plus years), when I worked in aerospace, we had little
> paper strips that we attached inside a unit to find out how hot it got
> during test. As I recall, they had dots which permanently changed color
> at different temperatures. Google couldn't find them but maybe I didn't
> ask it the right question. Has anyone else heard of these? Are they
> still made? It seems they would be perfect for measuring roller
> temperature. 
>
>  
>
> Jim
>
>

Hi,

 

Thanks. Yes, either the TMC Hallcrest or the Tempil product would seem be what I remember and would seem to do the job. I’m suffering sticker shock from the prices, though. Would there be any cheaper products out there?

 

Jim

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald H Locker
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:01 PM
To: Homebrew PCBs
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: laminator heat specs

 

  

Search for tempil <http://www.tempil.com/> are the folks who make temperature-sensitive paper and plastic markers.

Donald.
----- "Jim Barnes" <jim@... <mailto:jim%40tmtcd.com> > wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> Long ago (20-plus years), when I worked in aerospace, we had little
> paper strips that we attached inside a unit to find out how hot it
> got
> during test. As I recall, they had dots which permanently changed
> color
> at different temperatures. Google couldn't find them but maybe I
> didn't
> ask it the right question. Has anyone else heard of these? Are they
> still made? It seems they would be perfect for measuring roller
> temperature. 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:45 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: laminator heat specs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try opening it up and looking at the part numbers. The roller temp
> isn't always the same temp as the cutoff unless you can measure it
> *between* the rollers.
> 
> 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]