Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-20 by m10000_little_zip

Hi, I'm a new member to the group. This post may or may not be OT.

I would like to get some parts made using the photo-etch process. I have gotten a quote from a vendor online but, quite frankly, it is just more than I am prepared to pay. I can buy a DIY kit for the price quoted.

I am looking for someone who has the capability of photo-etching 0.008 x 3.00 x 4.00 (and possibly 6.00 x 6.00) phosphor bronze sheets. I can provide material and artwork in most useable file formats as required. Volumes may or may not be very low and it may be a one-off depending on how well the project turns out.

If you would like to quote this or can direct me to a possible source

Please reply off-list to:

oldno9@... or m10000_little_zip@...

Thanks, Bryan

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by Roger Blair

I'm just setting up for Toner Transfer PCB fabrication. Your question has sparked my curiosity. I would like to learn what
differences there are between etching copper on PCB's, and etching phosphor bronze such as you are needing... Can you, or is there
anyone here that would care to comparatively describe the process, such as times, temperatures, preferred etchants etc, and/or any
other significant detail?

Thanks,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of m10000_little_zip
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:06 AM
To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Hi, I'm a new member to the group. This post may or may not be OT.

I would like to get some parts made using the photo-etch process. I have gotten a quote from a vendor online but, quite frankly, it
is just more than I am prepared to pay. I can buy a DIY kit for the price quoted.

I am looking for someone who has the capability of photo-etching 0.008 x 3.00 x 4.00 (and possibly 6.00 x 6.00) phosphor bronze
sheets. I can provide material and artwork in most useable file formats as required. Volumes may or may not be very low and it may
be a one-off depending on how well the project turns out.

If you would like to quote this or can direct me to a possible source

Please reply off-list to:

oldno9@... <mailto:oldno9%40indy.rr.com> or m10000_little_zip@... <mailto:m10000_little_zip%40yahoo.com>

Thanks, Bryan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "m10000_little_zip" <m10000_little_zip@...>
To: <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:05 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Hi, I'm a new member to the group. This post may or may not be OT.

I would like to get some parts made using the photo-etch process. I have
gotten a quote from a vendor online but, quite frankly, it is just more than
I am prepared to pay. I can buy a DIY kit for the price quoted.

I am looking for someone who has the capability of photo-etching 0.008 x
3.00 x 4.00 (and possibly 6.00 x 6.00) phosphor bronze sheets. I can provide
material and artwork in most useable file formats as required. Volumes may
or may not be very low and it may be a one-off depending on how well the
project turns out.

If you would like to quote this or can direct me to a possible source

Mega Electronics makes kits for that sort of thing, IIRC.

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

> I'm just setting up for Toner Transfer PCB fabrication. Your question has
> sparked my curiosity. I would like to learn what
> differences there are between etching copper on PCB's, and etching
> phosphor bronze such as you are needing... Can you, or is there
> anyone here that would care to comparatively describe the process, such as
> times, temperatures, preferred etchants etc, and/or any
> other significant detail?

The process is similar.

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by m10000_little_zip

Leon, thank you for the lead. A quick search looks like they are in the UK making for an unfavorable exchange rate for the etching kit. I have found a couple from US dealers but I was trying not to do my own etching.

Bryan

----- Original Message ----
From: leon Heller <leon355@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 7:10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

----- Original Message -----
From: "m10000_little_zip" <m10000_little_zip@...>
To: <homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:05 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Hi, I'm a new member to the group. This post may or may not be OT.

I would like to get some parts made using the photo-etch process. I have
gotten a quote from a vendor online but, quite frankly, it is just more than
I am prepared to pay. I can buy a DIY kit for the price quoted.

I am looking for someone who has the capability of photo-etching 0.008 x
3.00 x 4.00 (and possibly 6.00 x 6.00) phosphor bronze sheets. I can provide
material and artwork in most useable file formats as required. Volumes may
or may not be very low and it may be a one-off depending on how well the
project turns out.

If you would like to quote this or can direct me to a possible source

Mega Electronics makes kits for that sort of thing, IIRC.

Leon

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by Roger Blair

Wow!

Thanks for all the enlightening detail!

Is this list only for experts to upstage each other with "advanced" expertise?

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of leon Heller
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:17 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@... <mailto:Roger.Blair%40Comcast.net> >
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

> I'm just setting up for Toner Transfer PCB fabrication. Your question has
> sparked my curiosity. I would like to learn what
> differences there are between etching copper on PCB's, and etching
> phosphor bronze such as you are needing... Can you, or is there
> anyone here that would care to comparatively describe the process, such as
> times, temperatures, preferred etchants etc, and/or any
> other significant detail?

The process is similar.

Leon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by Stefan Trethan

No there are actually people here who etch brass, just 99.9% don't and
can't say all that much about it.

You'll have to wait and hope that someone speaks up, I know there was
at least one guy etching brass for miniature railway parts.

The process is very similar.
You'll have to mask both sides with brass, or cover one side
completely to cover it.
Would stand to reason that thicker brass stock also takes longer than
copper, one would suppose.... ;-)

ST

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Roger Blair <Roger.Blair@...> wrote:
> Wow!
>
> Thanks for all the enlightening detail!
>
> Is this list only for experts to upstage each other with "advanced" expertise?
>
> Roger
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

> Wow!
>
> Thanks for all the enlightening detail!
>
> Is this list only for experts to upstage each other with "advanced"
> expertise?

What more did you expect? The techniques are similar - similar resist,
similar exposure, and similar etchants!

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by DJ Delorie

Yes, thicker brass takes a *lot* longer, you want to make sure your
etchant is fresh and hot or it'll be in the solution for an hour or
so.

Undercut is going to be about as much as the thickness of the brass; 8
mil brass means 8 mil undercut if you only mask one side - masking
both sides is better but you need to be accurate within the thickness
of the brass - a few mil in your case.

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/brass/

These days, it might be useful to look for people who have a small
laser CNC and are looking for small jobs to fill in the dead times.
I've seen a few pop up recently - try www.laserkrafts.com or
www.ohararp.com

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by Roger Blair

ST & DJ,

Thanks for the input. Of course I expect to get my hands dirty working out the finer details applicable to my equipment, I'm just
looking for a more practical entry point than starting out blind with phosphor bronze. You have provided a bit better relative
basepoint of expectations to work from; thanks for that. You both have referenced brass; should I take that to imply a close
parallel to phosphor bonze, which is the material of interest? (I had suspected the alloy may not be very similar to brass in terms
of etching)

TIA,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:59 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Yes, thicker brass takes a *lot* longer, you want to make sure your
etchant is fresh and hot or it'll be in the solution for an hour or
so.

Undercut is going to be about as much as the thickness of the brass; 8
mil brass means 8 mil undercut if you only mask one side - masking
both sides is better but you need to be accurate within the thickness
of the brass - a few mil in your case.

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/brass/

These days, it might be useful to look for people who have a small
laser CNC and are looking for small jobs to fill in the dead times.
I've seen a few pop up recently - try www.laserkrafts.com or
www.ohararp.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-21 by DJ Delorie

I suspect the process is the same, along with undercutting etc,
although the chemistry might have to change. Brass works with PCB
techniques because the brass reacts to etchant the same as copper
does.

Bronze is still a copper alloy, it might react the same too. If you
want to mail me a small piece(like, 0.5" sq or smaller, doesn't take
much), I can dip it in the CuCl etchant and see what it does.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by Stefan Trethan

I'd avoid the sulphuric etchants on suspicion, tin is used as resist there.
Hardly anyone uses that in a homebrew setting anyway.

CuCl eats anything short of titanium it seems.

ST

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:33 AM, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> I suspect the process is the same, along with undercutting etc,
> although the chemistry might have to change. Brass works with PCB
> techniques because the brass reacts to etchant the same as copper
> does.
>
> Bronze is still a copper alloy, it might react the same too. If you
> want to mail me a small piece(like, 0.5" sq or smaller, doesn't take
> much), I can dip it in the CuCl etchant and see what it does.
>
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by Roger Blair

Thanks for the offer DJ, I appreciate that.

I will just order a few phosphor bronze sheets and build a CuCl solution, and get with the program to see what it takes.

Thanks,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:33 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I suspect the process is the same, along with undercutting etc,
although the chemistry might have to change. Brass works with PCB
techniques because the brass reacts to etchant the same as copper
does.

Bronze is still a copper alloy, it might react the same too. If you
want to mail me a small piece(like, 0.5" sq or smaller, doesn't take
much), I can dip it in the CuCl etchant and see what it does.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by Roger Blair

Duly noted.

Thanks, ST

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 11:41 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I'd avoid the sulphuric etchants on suspicion, tin is used as resist there.
Hardly anyone uses that in a homebrew setting anyway.

CuCl eats anything short of titanium it seems.

ST

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:33 AM, DJ Delorie <dj@... <mailto:dj%40delorie.com> > wrote:
>
> I suspect the process is the same, along with undercutting etc,
> although the chemistry might have to change. Brass works with PCB
> techniques because the brass reacts to etchant the same as copper
> does.
>
> Bronze is still a copper alloy, it might react the same too. If you
> want to mail me a small piece(like, 0.5" sq or smaller, doesn't take
> much), I can dip it in the CuCl etchant and see what it does.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by m10000_little_zip

Any interest in testing this on the parts I am looking for? I'll provide material and artwork!!

Thanks for your consideration, Bryan

----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Blair <Roger.Blair@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 12:27:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Thanks for the offer DJ, I appreciate that.

I will just order a few phosphor bronze sheets and build a CuCl solution, and get with the program to see what it takes.

Thanks,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:33 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I suspect the process is the same, along with undercutting etc,
although the chemistry might have to change. Brass works with PCB
techniques because the brass reacts to etchant the same as copper
does.

Bronze is still a copper alloy, it might react the same too. If you
want to mail me a small piece(like, 0.5" sq or smaller, doesn't take
much), I can dip it in the CuCl etchant and see what it does.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by Stefan Trethan

People might be reluctanct because of the tin in the bronze. I'm not
sure what it will do, but I'd avoid putting anything other than copper
in my etching tank.

You can always try with a one-time use small batch of etchant first.
HCl and H2O2 (3% dilute) will do the trick.

ST

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 6:33 PM, m10000_little_zip
<m10000_little_zip@...> wrote:

> Any interest in testing this on the parts I am looking for? I'll provide material and artwork!!
>
> Thanks for your consideration, Bryan
>

>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by Roger Blair

Hi Bryan,

My interest here is in being able to make few-at-a-time spring contacts and such for proof of concept design work; definitely small
quantity, hobby level/grade work. It will likely be a week or two before I can start on this project; so if you're not
time-constrained, and wish to send your artwork for experimental purposes, that will be fine. Should this trial work out reasonably
well, and you wish to have some quantity that I can manage made, then you can send material for that at that time.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of m10000_little_zip
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:33 AM
To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Any interest in testing this on the parts I am looking for? I'll provide material and artwork!!

Thanks for your consideration, Bryan

----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Blair <Roger.Blair@... <mailto:Roger.Blair%40Comcast.net> >
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 12:27:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Thanks for the offer DJ, I appreciate that.

I will just order a few phosphor bronze sheets and build a CuCl solution, and get with the program to see what it takes.

Thanks,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:33 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I suspect the process is the same, along with undercutting etc,
although the chemistry might have to change. Brass works with PCB
techniques because the brass reacts to etchant the same as copper
does.

Bronze is still a copper alloy, it might react the same too. If you
want to mail me a small piece(like, 0.5" sq or smaller, doesn't take
much), I can dip it in the CuCl etchant and see what it does.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-22 by Roger Blair

One-time is just what I had in mind.

Appreciate the flag.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

People might be reluctanct because of the tin in the bronze. I'm not
sure what it will do, but I'd avoid putting anything other than copper
in my etching tank.

You can always try with a one-time use small batch of etchant first.
HCl and H2O2 (3% dilute) will do the trick.

ST

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 6:33 PM, m10000_little_zip
<m10000_little_zip@... <mailto:m10000_little_zip%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

> Any interest in testing this on the parts I am looking for? I'll provide material and artwork!!
>
> Thanks for your consideration, Bryan
>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-24 by Roger Blair

I found a formula for tin-copper alloys that I would like to try, consisting of: Distilled water or methanol, 100 ml; Hydrochloric
acid, 5-25 ml and Ferric chloride (powder) 10 grams.

Can someone here correlate grams of the powder to milliliters of (MG Chemicals 415) solution, (Ferric Chloride 40% by weight,
Hydrochloric acid 1% by weight - 5ppm)?

Being totally chemistry ignorant, and as I already have the liquid solution.

TIA for any enlightenment on this.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

People might be reluctanct because of the tin in the bronze. I'm not
sure what it will do, but I'd avoid putting anything other than copper
in my etching tank.

You can always try with a one-time use small batch of etchant first.
HCl and H2O2 (3% dilute) will do the trick.

ST

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-25 by Donald H Locker

Using 1.2 as the specific gravity of HCl (I didn't look it up, but that should be close enough for this approximation)

Your recipe calls for 10g FeCl / (100g H2O + (8 to 30) (or so)g HCl + 10g FeCl) => FeCl is about 10/118 to 10/140 or 8.5 to 7% by weight in your recipe. HCl comprises about 7% at the low end and 20% at the high end.

I would use about 100ml of the MG brew per 500ml final solution and 30 to 100ml HCl. Reasoning: 40% by weight diluted to 8% by weight is a 1:5 dilution. The MG 415 should comprise 1/5th of the final solution, with HCl making up the remainder. With only 1% HCl in the MG 415, most of your 7 to 20% has to come from the addition of HCL when making up your etchant. 100ml HCl would be close to 20% of the final, so 30ml would be near the 7% level.

I'm playing very loose with the volume/mass distinction and assuming that the recipe requirements aren't _too_ critical. Especially given the range specified for HCl and the lack of a concentration spec for it.

Remember to always add acid to water, and wear good safety gear - you only have one pair of eyes and one skin.
Donald.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...>
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:36:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I found a formula for tin-copper alloys that I would like to try, consisting of: Distilled water or methanol, 100 ml; Hydrochloric
acid, 5-25 ml and Ferric chloride (powder) 10 grams.

Can someone here correlate grams of the powder to milliliters of (MG Chemicals 415) solution, (Ferric Chloride 40% by weight,
Hydrochloric acid 1% by weight - 5ppm)?

Being totally chemistry ignorant, and as I already have the liquid solution.

TIA for any enlightenment on this.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

People might be reluctanct because of the tin in the bronze. I'm not
sure what it will do, but I'd avoid putting anything other than copper
in my etching tank.

You can always try with a one-time use small batch of etchant first.
HCl and H2O2 (3% dilute) will do the trick.

ST

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-25 by Roger Blair

Thank You, Donald!

The HCl concentration is 10%. I overlooked that part… I appreciate the breakdown (especially the reasoning, as it provides me some insight as to how to go about proportioning this stuff) This will get me started.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald H Locker
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 7:19 AM
To: Homebrew PCBs
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Using 1.2 as the specific gravity of HCl (I didn't look it up, but that should be close enough for this approximation)

Your recipe calls for 10g FeCl / (100g H2O + (8 to 30) (or so)g HCl + 10g FeCl) => FeCl is about 10/118 to 10/140 or 8.5 to 7% by weight in your recipe. HCl comprises about 7% at the low end and 20% at the high end.

I would use about 100ml of the MG brew per 500ml final solution and 30 to 100ml HCl. Reasoning: 40% by weight diluted to 8% by weight is a 1:5 dilution. The MG 415 should comprise 1/5th of the final solution, with HCl making up the remainder. With only 1% HCl in the MG 415, most of your 7 to 20% has to come from the addition of HCL when making up your etchant. 100ml HCl would be close to 20% of the final, so 30ml would be near the 7% level.

I'm playing very loose with the volume/mass distinction and assuming that the recipe requirements aren't _too_ critical. Especially given the range specified for HCl and the lack of a concentration spec for it.

Remember to always add acid to water, and wear good safety gear - you only have one pair of eyes and one skin.
Donald.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@... <mailto:Roger.Blair%40Comcast.net> >
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:36:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I found a formula for tin-copper alloys that I would like to try, consisting of: Distilled water or methanol, 100 ml; Hydrochloric
acid, 5-25 ml and Ferric chloride (powder) 10 grams.

Can someone here correlate grams of the powder to milliliters of (MG Chemicals 415) solution, (Ferric Chloride 40% by weight,
Hydrochloric acid 1% by weight - 5ppm)?

Being totally chemistry ignorant, and as I already have the liquid solution.

TIA for any enlightenment on this.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

People might be reluctanct because of the tin in the bronze. I'm not
sure what it will do, but I'd avoid putting anything other than copper
in my etching tank.

You can always try with a one-time use small batch of etchant first.
HCl and H2O2 (3% dilute) will do the trick.

ST

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

2009-12-25 by Donald H Locker

Oh, good. I was hoping that would help. The tolerances on the final solution were rather loose, so I took my cue from there. And I'm glad the example helped. Sometimes seeing a problem worked helps enormously in understanding how to apply all the theory. And I'm guessing you aren't totally chemistry ignorant - maybe you haven't had a formal introduction, but some things can be fairly straightforward.

Donald.
(Happy Holidays!)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...>
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 11:22:49 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Thank You, Donald!

The HCl concentration is 10%. I overlooked that part… I appreciate the breakdown (especially the reasoning, as it provides me some insight as to how to go about proportioning this stuff) This will get me started.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald H Locker
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 7:19 AM
To: Homebrew PCBs
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

Using 1.2 as the specific gravity of HCl (I didn't look it up, but that should be close enough for this approximation)

Your recipe calls for 10g FeCl / (100g H2O + (8 to 30) (or so)g HCl + 10g FeCl) => FeCl is about 10/118 to 10/140 or 8.5 to 7% by weight in your recipe. HCl comprises about 7% at the low end and 20% at the high end.

I would use about 100ml of the MG brew per 500ml final solution and 30 to 100ml HCl. Reasoning: 40% by weight diluted to 8% by weight is a 1:5 dilution. The MG 415 should comprise 1/5th of the final solution, with HCl making up the remainder. With only 1% HCl in the MG 415, most of your 7 to 20% has to come from the addition of HCL when making up your etchant. 100ml HCl would be close to 20% of the final, so 30ml would be near the 7% level.

I'm playing very loose with the volume/mass distinction and assuming that the recipe requirements aren't _too_ critical. Especially given the range specified for HCl and the lack of a concentration spec for it.

Remember to always add acid to water, and wear good safety gear - you only have one pair of eyes and one skin.
Donald.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@... <mailto:Roger.Blair%40Comcast.net> >
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:36:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

I found a formula for tin-copper alloys that I would like to try, consisting of: Distilled water or methanol, 100 ml; Hydrochloric
acid, 5-25 ml and Ferric chloride (powder) 10 grams.

Can someone here correlate grams of the powder to milliliters of (MG Chemicals 415) solution, (Ferric Chloride 40% by weight,
Hydrochloric acid 1% by weight - 5ppm)?

Being totally chemistry ignorant, and as I already have the liquid solution.

TIA for any enlightenment on this.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:44 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Looking for a photo etching vendor

People might be reluctanct because of the tin in the bronze. I'm not
sure what it will do, but I'd avoid putting anything other than copper
in my etching tank.

You can always try with a one-time use small batch of etchant first.
HCl and H2O2 (3% dilute) will do the trick.

ST

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