Homebrew PCBs

hello members 
I have a customer that, maybe order a few pcb at me, but 
he ask for 105 u copper layer ,singlesided .
Does anyone here have some board with this copper thickness.?
I will need two pieces of 140 x 100 mm .
It would be best if it was with photoresist .
If you have somthing for me ,then send an email to 
christiansen_alex@... and give me a price .
I'm situated in denmark 
if its not with photoresist, then I have to learn the method with transfer from laser ..and then I was thinking , wether any of you had used the kit with laminator and transfer sheet from 
  http://www.pulsar.gs/ 
it looks like the perfect thing.. but is it.. 
alex
denmark

christiansen_alex@... wrote:
>   
> hello members 
> I have a customer that, maybe order a few pcb at me, but 
> he ask for 105 u copper layer ,singlesided .

105�m copper pcb laminates are most known as 3 oz/in�.
About getting it, I am sure that you as a pcb professional can overcome
that.


But one useful question comes to mind, How a 3oz board is successfully
etched? I mean with minor under etch.
Spray etching is enough? Or etching additives are mandatory? Any
ideas/experience?

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <christiansen_alex@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] 105 u copper needed


> hello members
> I have a customer that, maybe order a few pcb at me, but
> he ask for 105 u copper layer ,singlesided .
> Does anyone here have some board with this copper thickness.?
> I will need two pieces of 140 x 100 mm .
> It would be best if it was with photoresist .
> If you have somthing for me ,then send an email to
> christiansen_alex@... and give me a price .
> I'm situated in denmark
> if its not with photoresist, then I have to learn the method with transfer 
> from laser ..and then I was thinking , wether any of you had used the kit 
> with laminator and transfer sheet from
>  http://www.pulsar.gs/
> it looks like the perfect thing.. but is it..
> alex
> denmark

1 oz per sq. ft. copper laminate (the commonly used material) is 35 u. 105 u 
would be 3 oz. It is made, but is probably difficult to buy in small 
quantities. See if you can cadge some from your local PCB manufacturer.

Leon

Simao Cardoso wrote:

> known as 3 oz/in�

What a mistake, I may dislike imperial units but this was, how to say, a
shoot in the _foot_?   :>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Simao Cardoso" <simaocardoso@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] 105 u copper needed


> Simao Cardoso wrote:
>
>> known as 3 oz/in�
>
> What a mistake, I may dislike imperial units but this was, how to say, a
> shoot in the _foot_?   :>

Etching would take a very long time with 3 oz/sq. inch copper. I make it 
about 1.5 mm thick. 8-)

Leon

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leon Heller" <leon355@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Simao Cardoso" <simaocardoso@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] 105 u copper needed
> 
> 
> > Simao Cardoso wrote:
> >
> >> known as 3 oz/in²
> >
> > What a mistake, I may dislike imperial units but this was, how to say, a
> > shoot in the _foot_?   :>
> 
> Etching would take a very long time with 3 oz/sq. inch copper. I make it 
> about 1.5 mm thick. 8-)
> 
> Leon
>
thanks all for intersting reply :) 
and Leon ,yes I know its not easy to get..that's why I asked here,as I have noticed that much can happen here in this group :)

If I get it..it might be a problem with etching.. or scould it not be the same ..except the time. 
I dont understand the last line "I make it about 1.5mm thick 8) ??
,maybe not important ,but if it is.. please tell me again..
alex

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...> wrote:
>
> christiansen_alex@... wrote:
> >   
> > hello members 
> > I have a customer that, maybe order a few pcb at me, but 
> > he ask for 105 u copper layer ,singlesided .
> 
> 105µm copper pcb laminates are most known as 3 oz/in².
> About getting it, I am sure that you as a pcb professional can overcome
> that.
> 
> 
> But one useful question comes to mind, How a 3oz board is successfully
> etched? I mean with minor under etch.
> Spray etching is enough? Or etching additives are mandatory? Any
> ideas/experience?
>
No...I dont have any ideas.. think I had some at 70 u many years ago.. and dont remember any difficulties at that time.. it was with tape layout but else the same procedure.

hmmm.. 35 u.. guess thats refer to micrometer.. metric unit..
why would the weight then be expressed in imperial units :):)
alex

christiansen_alex@... wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leon Heller" <leon355@...> wrote:
>   
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Simao Cardoso" <simaocardoso@...>
>> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] 105 u copper needed
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Simao Cardoso wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> known as 3 oz/in²
>>>>         
>>> What a mistake, I may dislike imperial units but this was, how to say, a
>>> shoot in the _foot_?   :>
>>>       
>> Etching would take a very long time with 3 oz/sq. inch copper. I make it 
>> about 1.5 mm thick. 8-)
>>
>> Leon
>>
>>     
> thanks all for intersting reply :) 
> and Leon ,yes I know its not easy to get..that's why I asked here,as I have noticed that much can happen here in this group :)
>
> If I get it..it might be a problem with etching.. or scould it not be the same ..except the time. 
> I dont understand the last line "I make it about 1.5mm thick 8) ??
> ,maybe not important ,but if it is.. please tell me again..
> alex
>   

Copper is measured in ounces per square foot, not per square inch.  3 
ounces per square inch would be 15 mm thick (not 1.5) and a 12 inch 
square board would weigh 27 pounds, or about 12 kilos.  He was being funny.

Kerry

I think that in order to do 3 oz one must use semi-additive etching.
that is put doen the photoresist and then electrroplate, strip the resist
and etch the whole board.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 09:56, Kerry Wentworth
<kwentworth@...>wrote:

>
>
> christiansen_alex@... <christiansen_alex%40hotmail.com> wrote:
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "leon Heller" <leon355@...> wrote:
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Simao Cardoso" <simaocardoso@...>
> >> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:30 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] 105 u copper needed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Simao Cardoso wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> known as 3 oz/in²
> >>>>
> >>> What a mistake, I may dislike imperial units but this was, how to say,
> a
> >>> shoot in the _foot_? :>
> >>>
> >> Etching would take a very long time with 3 oz/sq. inch copper. I make it
>
> >> about 1.5 mm thick. 8-)
> >>
> >> Leon
> >>
> >>
> > thanks all for intersting reply :)
> > and Leon ,yes I know its not easy to get..that's why I asked here,as I
> have noticed that much can happen here in this group :)
> >
> > If I get it..it might be a problem with etching.. or scould it not be the
> same ..except the time.
> > I dont understand the last line "I make it about 1.5mm thick 8) ??
> > ,maybe not important ,but if it is.. please tell me again..
> > alex
> >
>
> Copper is measured in ounces per square foot, not per square inch. 3
> ounces per square inch would be 15 mm thick (not 1.5) and a 12 inch
> square board would weigh 27 pounds, or about 12 kilos. He was being funny.
>
> Kerry
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alexis Shaw wrote:
>   
> I think that in order to do 3 oz one must use semi-additive etching.
> that is put doen the photoresist and then electrroplate, strip the
> resist and etch the whole board.

You mean Negative print the resist, copper pattern plating up to 105�m,
metallic resist plating, resist stripping, metallic resist compatible
etchant  and metallic resist strip?

Milling the board seems much better!

I thought it could be done with 1 step etching since some processes used
in metal engraving seems very similar to pcb etching.

It is true that most board houses would usually plate it up, but there
is nothing that says it can't be etched.

Of course undercut will be a lot more severe, and etching time will be
much longer, but if the features are large enough it should not be a
problem.

ST

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...> wrote:
> Alexis Shaw wrote:
>>
>> I think that in order to do 3 oz one must use semi-additive etching.
>> that is put doen the photoresist and then electrroplate, strip the
>> resist and etch the whole board.
>
> You mean Negative print the resist, copper pattern plating up to 105µm,
> metallic resist plating, resist stripping, metallic resist compatible
> etchant  and metallic resist strip?
>
> Milling the board seems much better!
>
> I thought it could be done with 1 step etching since some processes used
> in metal engraving seems very similar to pcb etching.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Could a tin layer do the same with the better conductivity ?
I could tinplate the board chemically, I guess.Have seen that it is sold ,but have never tried.
the board ,I am about to perhaps make ,is a simple powersupply ,think the man have copied a board from a manual.so the idea of milling was also an idea..but as it is without gerber, think I would have some hours with doing the job :)
I could mill it in a copper sheet on 1 mm and then glue a bit of glassfiber to it...and add PCB maufacturer to my card ....
alex

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> It is true that most board houses would usually plate it up, but there
> is nothing that says it can't be etched.
> 
> Of course undercut will be a lot more severe, and etching time will be
> much longer, but if the features are large enough it should not be a
> problem.
> 
> ST
> 
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...> wrote:
> > Alexis Shaw wrote:
> >>
> >> I think that in order to do 3 oz one must use semi-additive etching.
> >> that is put doen the photoresist and then electrroplate, strip the
> >> resist and etch the whole board.
> >
> > You mean Negative print the resist, copper pattern plating up to 105µm,
> > metallic resist plating, resist stripping, metallic resist compatible
> > etchant  and metallic resist strip?
> >
> > Milling the board seems much better!
> >
> > I thought it could be done with 1 step etching since some processes used
> > in metal engraving seems very similar to pcb etching.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I think you are best off having this made somewhere, unless you can
find the 105u base material and just need to etch it.
It will be difficult to find because board houses will start with
thinner stock and plate it up, so surplus is rare.

Tin has lower conductivity than copper, so it would not do the same.
With very high frequency circuits plating can actually increase
overall resistance because the skin effect pushes half the current
into the low conductivity plating.


ST

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:30 PM,  <christiansen_alex@...> wrote:
> Could a tin layer do the same with the better conductivity ?
> I could tinplate the board chemically, I guess.Have seen that it is sold ,but have never tried.
> the board ,I am about to perhaps make ,is a simple powersupply ,think the man have copied a board from a manual.so the idea of milling was also an idea..but as it is without gerber, think I would have some hours with doing the job :)
> I could mill it in a copper sheet on 1 mm and then glue a bit of glassfiber to it...and add PCB maufacturer to my card ....
> alex
>