Yahoo Groups archive

Homebrew PCBs

Index last updated: 2026-04-03 01:13 UTC

Thread

amonium peroxide how long lasting

amonium peroxide how long lasting

2009-12-02 by christiansen_alex@hotmail.com

hell members
I often see,that there are qualified chemist people here in the group.
 
So I have a question about the peroxide types etchants.
Its often told that they only last  4 weeks,if they have been dissolved in water..
How does it look when the peroxide is in the solid form ? does it have a limited liftime ?

So does it take much of liftime ,if it is stored and it is not dry.
and how long does a solution with water actually last ,to be usefull.
thank you for any response 
alex
denmark

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] amonium peroxide how long lasting

2009-12-02 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: <christiansen_alex@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:34 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] amonium peroxide how long lasting


> hell members
> I often see,that there are qualified chemist people here in the group.
>
> So I have a question about the peroxide types etchants.
> Its often told that they only last  4 weeks,if they have been dissolved in 
> water..
> How does it look when the peroxide is in the solid form ? does it have a 
> limited liftime ?
>
> So does it take much of liftime ,if it is stored and it is not dry.
> and how long does a solution with water actually last ,to be usefull.
> thank you for any response

I use FeCl3, but used ammonium persulphate many years ago. The solid stuff 
lasts indefinitely provided that it is kept dry.

Leon

Re: amonium peroxide how long lasting

2009-12-02 by christiansen_alex@hotmail.com

it was not hellmembers but hello members ..sorry ..or a good laugh.

thank you Leon
Then I can relax and buy a new portion.
alex

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leon Heller" <leon355@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>

> 
> I use FeCl3, but used ammonium persulphate many years ago. The solid stuff 
> lasts indefinitely provided that it is kept dry.
> 
> Leon
>

Re: amonium peroxide how long lasting

2009-12-05 by designer_craig

I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate but I had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it all went bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board.  Not sure what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.

Craig

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, christiansen_alex@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> hell members
> I often see,that there are qualified chemist people here in the group.
>  
> So I have a question about the peroxide types etchants.
> Its often told that they only last  4 weeks,if they have been dissolved in water..
> How does it look when the peroxide is in the solid form ? does it have a limited liftime ?
> 
> So does it take much of liftime ,if it is stored and it is not dry.
> and how long does a solution with water actually last ,to be usefull.
> thank you for any response 
> alex
> denmark
>

Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-06 by Anthony Shipman

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 06:45:22 am designer_craig wrote:
> I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate but I
> had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it all went
> bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board.  Not sure
> what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.
>
> Craig

BTW how toxic is this stuff (Ammonium Persulfate). The container had no 
warnings on it. I have some etchant with dissolved copper in it. Is it 
poisonous? What is the best way to dispose of it?

-- 
Anthony Shipman                    Mamas don't let your babies 
als@...                   grow up to be outsourced.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-06 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Anthony Shipman" <als@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?


On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 06:45:22 am designer_craig wrote:
> I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate but I
> had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it all 
> went
> bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board. Not sure
> what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.
>
> Craig

BTW how toxic is this stuff (Ammonium Persulfate). The container had no
warnings on it. I have some etchant with dissolved copper in it. Is it
poisonous? What is the best way to dispose of it?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-06 by Stefan Trethan

On it's own it's Xn rating, no idea what it would be with the copper.
Anyway Xn is enough that you want to read the MSDS.

<http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/ammonium-persulfate.pdf>

Which is not too bad, seems it's just barely Xn.

Once you add the copper, you are not supposed to flush it down the
drain anyway, so it doesn't really matter if AP could be disposed of
that way. Bring it to your local waste disposal facility, in most
places around the world household hazardous waste can be brought in
free of charge, to discourage people dumping it illegally.


ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Anthony Shipman <als@...> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 06:45:22 am designer_craig wrote:
>> I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate but I
>> had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it all went
>> bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board.  Not sure
>> what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.
>>
>> Craig
>
> BTW how toxic is this stuff (Ammonium Persulfate). The container had no
> warnings on it. I have some etchant with dissolved copper in it. Is it
> poisonous? What is the best way to dispose of it?
>
> --
> Anthony Shipman                    Mamas don't let your babies
> als@...                   grow up to be outsourced.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-07 by tim.wade@l-3com.com

Read somewhere - can't find it now of course - that you should let it
evaporate so that you effectively end up with copper sulphate crystals
then place sealed bottle and put in the rubbish... 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 1:11 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

 

  

On it's own it's Xn rating, no idea what it would be with the copper.
Anyway Xn is enough that you want to read the MSDS.

<http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/ammonium-persulfate.pdf>

Which is not too bad, seems it's just barely Xn.

Once you add the copper, you are not supposed to flush it down the
drain anyway, so it doesn't really matter if AP could be disposed of
that way. Bring it to your local waste disposal facility, in most
places around the world household hazardous waste can be brought in
free of charge, to discourage people dumping it illegally.

ST

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Anthony Shipman <als@...
<mailto:als%40iinet.net.au> > wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 06:45:22 am designer_craig wrote:
>> I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate
but I
>> had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it
all went
>> bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board.  Not
sure
>> what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.
>>
>> Craig
>
> BTW how toxic is this stuff (Ammonium Persulfate). The container had
no
> warnings on it. I have some etchant with dissolved copper in it. Is it
> poisonous? What is the best way to dispose of it?
>
> --
> Anthony Shipman                    Mamas don't let your babies
> als@... <mailto:als%40iinet.net.au>                    grow
up to be outsourced.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-07 by Piers Goodhew

I've wondered about this, too, and I've read a few things "somewhere" - i.e.
I can't actually swear they're true, but they seem to add up:

Ammonium Persulphate as-is is a mild fertiliser without much toxicity. Once
copper is dissolved in it, we get Copper Sulphate which is a little more
toxic. This should be evaporated and disposed of in your local hazardous
waste facility - you evaporate because at "non-hobby" quantities, you pay by
weight. However, CuSO4 is also commonly used as a pool fungicide
(algicide?), so folks with pools often just throw it in there - i.e. it's
not that toxic to humans.

Now, the following I do have evidence for:

Looks like the original poster is in Australia, as I am. At least in NSW you
can dispose of "hobby chemicals" for free on special days which rotate
around the local councils:

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/households/CleanoutGuide.htm

When I eventually turn all of my jar of Ammonium Persulphate into blue salt,
that's where I'll be heading, but it will be years!

PG


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM, <tim.wade@...> wrote:

>
>
> Read somewhere - can't find it now of course - that you should let it
> evaporate so that you effectively end up with copper sulphate crystals
> then place sealed bottle and put in the rubbish...
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
> Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 1:11 AM
>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?
>
>
> On it's own it's Xn rating, no idea what it would be with the copper.
> Anyway Xn is enough that you want to read the MSDS.
>
> <http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/ammonium-persulfate.pdf>
>
> Which is not too bad, seems it's just barely Xn.
>
> Once you add the copper, you are not supposed to flush it down the
> drain anyway, so it doesn't really matter if AP could be disposed of
> that way. Bring it to your local waste disposal facility, in most
> places around the world household hazardous waste can be brought in
> free of charge, to discourage people dumping it illegally.
>
> ST
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Anthony Shipman <als@...<als%40iinet.net.au>
> <mailto:als%40iinet.net.au <als%2540iinet.net.au>> > wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 06:45:22 am designer_craig wrote:
> >> I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate
> but I
> >> had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it
> all went
> >> bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board. Not
> sure
> >> what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.
> >>
> >> Craig
> >
> > BTW how toxic is this stuff (Ammonium Persulfate). The container had
> no
> > warnings on it. I have some etchant with dissolved copper in it. Is it
> > poisonous? What is the best way to dispose of it?
> >
> > --
> > Anthony Shipman Mamas don't let your babies
> > als@... <als%40iinet.net.au> <mailto:als%40iinet.net.au<als%2540iinet.net.au>>
> grow
>
> up to be outsourced.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-07 by Stefan Trethan

They do let copper salts go into the environment at times. Someone
found copper chloride firebox cleaning sticks, and copper sulphate was
(is?) used as pesticide. Fireworks also use metal salts for color. I
think copper sulphate is even naturally occuring as a mineral.

So it's not a crazy "you will kill us all" kind of hazard, but it will
damage wastewater treatment bacteria in significant quantities so you
shouldn't just dump it down the drain. Evaporating sounds like a good
idea, especially since copper sulphate is useful for plating and such.

A while ago someone also suggested mixing it with cement into concrete.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:
> I've wondered about this, too, and I've read a few things "somewhere" - i.e.
> I can't actually swear they're true, but they seem to add up:
>
> Ammonium Persulphate as-is is a mild fertiliser without much toxicity. Once
> copper is dissolved in it, we get Copper Sulphate which is a little more
> toxic. This should be evaporated and disposed of in your local hazardous
> waste facility - you evaporate because at "non-hobby" quantities, you pay by
> weight. However, CuSO4 is also commonly used as a pool fungicide
> (algicide?), so folks with pools often just throw it in there - i.e. it's
> not that toxic to humans.
>
> Now, the following I do have evidence for:
>
> Looks like the original poster is in Australia, as I am. At least in NSW you
> can dispose of "hobby chemicals" for free on special days which rotate
> around the local councils:
>
> http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/households/CleanoutGuide.htm
>
> When I eventually turn all of my jar of Ammonium Persulphate into blue salt,
> that's where I'll be heading, but it will be years!
>
> PG
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM, <tim.wade@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Read somewhere - can't find it now of course - that you should let it
>> evaporate so that you effectively end up with copper sulphate crystals
>> then place sealed bottle and put in the rubbish...
>>
>> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
>> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
>> On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
>> Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 1:11 AM
>>
>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?
>>
>>
>> On it's own it's Xn rating, no idea what it would be with the copper.
>> Anyway Xn is enough that you want to read the MSDS.
>>
>> <http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/ammonium-persulfate.pdf>
>>
>> Which is not too bad, seems it's just barely Xn.
>>
>> Once you add the copper, you are not supposed to flush it down the
>> drain anyway, so it doesn't really matter if AP could be disposed of
>> that way. Bring it to your local waste disposal facility, in most
>> places around the world household hazardous waste can be brought in
>> free of charge, to discourage people dumping it illegally.
>>
>> ST
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Anthony Shipman <als@...<als%40iinet.net.au>
>> <mailto:als%40iinet.net.au <als%2540iinet.net.au>> > wrote:
>> > On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 06:45:22 am designer_craig wrote:
>> >> I am not sure if you mean Ammonium Peroxide or Ammonium Persulfate
>> but I
>> >> had some quantity of the latter sitting around for 15 years and it
>> all went
>> >> bad and would not etch anything when I tried to etch a board. Not
>> sure
>> >> what it decomposed to but I suspect it reverted to Ammonium Sulphate.
>> >>
>> >> Craig
>> >
>> > BTW how toxic is this stuff (Ammonium Persulfate). The container had
>> no
>> > warnings on it. I have some etchant with dissolved copper in it. Is it
>> > poisonous? What is the best way to dispose of it?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Anthony Shipman Mamas don't let your babies
>> > als@... <als%40iinet.net.au> <mailto:als%40iinet.net.au<als%2540iinet.net.au>>
>> grow
>>
>> up to be outsourced.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>> Photos:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-07 by kabowers@NorthState.net

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:54:29 +0100, you wrote:

>They do let copper salts go into the environment at times. Someone
>found copper chloride firebox cleaning sticks, and copper sulphate was
>(is?) used as pesticide. Fireworks also use metal salts for color. I
>think copper sulphate is even naturally occuring as a mineral.
>
Go to your local hardware and look for sewer root killer. I've got
a bottle down in the basement.
Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-07 by Stefan Trethan

Pulling just one random root killer MSDS shows Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate 99%.

It's really kinda absurd that you can possibly dump this into the
drain legally while at the same time there are stringent restrictions
on metal salts in sewage.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM,  <kabowers@northstate.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:54:29 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>They do let copper salts go into the environment at times. Someone
>>found copper chloride firebox cleaning sticks, and copper sulphate was
>>(is?) used as pesticide. Fireworks also use metal salts for color. I
>>think copper sulphate is even naturally occuring as a mineral.
>>
> Go to your local hardware and look for sewer root killer. I've got
> a bottle down in the basement.
> Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-07 by shklaw75

Or if you are in Victoria, there is a mobile service that goes around that you can take it to.

http://www.resourcesmart.vic.gov.au/for_households_1965.html

Simon
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Looks like the original poster is in Australia, as I am. At least in NSW you
> can dispose of "hobby chemicals" for free on special days which rotate
> around the local councils:
> 
> http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/households/CleanoutGuide.htm
> 
> When I eventually turn all of my jar of Ammonium Persulphate into blue salt,
> that's where I'll be heading, but it will be years!
> 
> PG
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ammonium Persulfate - poisonous?

2009-12-08 by William Alford

At 12:54 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>but it will damage wastewater treatment bacteria in significant 
>quantities so you
>shouldn't just dump it down the drain.

it's illegal to put in drain in many municipalities and they can 
track it to your drain line and levy significant fines. and for sure 
don't put it in your septic tank, which is a living thing and must be 
healthy to digest the waste!