Homebrew PCBs

I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.  

It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.

Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B

I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.

Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/suggestions?

Spend the money and get a real one.  The digital one
will probably suck.

Real is better.

Chuck
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: mcjonster@yahoo.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Stereo Microscope vs Digital
>Microscopes?
>Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:20:33 -0000
>
>>I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There
>are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB
>work.  
>>
>>It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.
>>
>>Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital
>microscope like this one:
>http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM
>-480B
>>
>>I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens
>as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably
>just didn't know what I was doing.
>>
>>Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I
>could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/suggestions?
>>
>>



$4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!

I've been using an IntelPlay "toy" microscope for my inspections.  I
don't use it for soldering (I have an optivisor for that) but I use it
to inspect - it does 200x if you don't mind a little graininess.

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/inkjet/inkmask-via-f.html
http://www.delorie.com/pcb/brass/20070220-sot535-60x.html
http://www.delorie.com/pcb/smd-challenge/fp-pix/

I've both stereo microscope and USB microscope. I found both them are useful. I uploaded some pictures under  the folder http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/usb_microscope. You can check and than decide yourself. It is a very cheap one ~$50. The only problem you need at least 30fps otherwise it is not easy to solder a component. 
Cheers,
Volkan 

 

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, mcjonster <mcjonster@...> wrote:

From: mcjonster <mcjonster@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Stereo Microscope vs Digital Microscopes?
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 10:20 AM






 




    
                  I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.  



It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.



Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonop tical.com/ Pocket_Microscop es/Pocket_ Microscopes/ MM-480B



I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.



Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/ suggestions?




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "mcjonster" <mcjonster@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:20 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Stereo Microscope vs Digital Microscopes?


> I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many 
> options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.

This is what I use (SM20):

http://www.lakeland-microscopes.co.uk/stereo.html

The quality is surprisingly good.

Leon

The camera ones suck! I have access to a really expensive one at work
but all the good optics are wasted on a low resolution camera.

Even a cheap stereo microscope will have _a lot_ more resolution than
any camera.

Also, don't forget the benefit of a stereo microscope specifically is
that it provides two parallel optical paths one for each eye, so you
see in 3D. This is a huge advantage over just a 2D image. You need to
rotate items a lot under 2D magnification to make sense of what you
see, while with a stereo microscope you can immediately see the shape.

Personally, I would suggest a stereo microscope with two magnification
settings on a revolver. It really helps to get a wider view at first
to find what you are looking for, and then switch to the higher
magnification for inspection. Changing eyepieces isn't really a good
option since it takes long and you open the optics up to dust.

Another thing I find practical is the rod/tube type vertical support.
The very cheap import units have done away with that and replaced this
with a fixed flat support which is cast with the base. The round
column allows you to swivel the head around and work on large items.
Also it has generally more flexibility in terms of working height.

Most useless to me is the through-light from below. For electronics
work this really seems pointless. I always work with light from above.

If you do a lot of soldering under the microscope I would suggest to
install a glass plate to cover the optics. It is difficult to clean
the lenses, at least compared to just wiping off a flat plate.
Personally I have rarely soldered under the microscope (only really
really small stuff such as bridges on the AMD processors or tiny wires
from earphone speakers membranes). It is a lot more use for inspection
since you can be really certain about what you see once PCB traces
look like huge wooden planks.

ST

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:20 PM, mcjonster <mcjonster@...> wrote:
> I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.
>
> It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.
>
> Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B
>
> I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.
>
> Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/suggestions?
>
>
>

I have the SM4020 almost exactly but with the magnification of the
SM3010. Seems the cheap ones all come from the same mold in china no
matter which brand.
I would consider the SM3010 pretty much the ideal stereo microscope if
one wants a cheap but new unit. Only used high end microscopes _might_
offer a better value for money.

The single magnification units do have a much smaller head compared to
the large round revolver, which does get in the way sometimes. But I
think this is well outweighed by the second magnification.

Also notice the two different viewing angles. The revolver units have
a prism which puts the eyepieces at an angle. This is intended to
provide a more comfortable working position, but you need to put the
microscope quite high to keep a natural posture, otherwise you need to
duck down which may actually be a less comfortable position than bent
over looking straight down, especially for tall people. The single
magnification units can be used with the column near your chest, or
turned around with the workpice near your chest. If you have very
large boards to work on that can be an advantage and you can not do
that with the revolver units. Actually on the more expensive ones
(zeiss etc.) you have the top revolving too for just this purpose but
not those cheap ones we are looking at.

Anyway, if I wasn't into electronics optics would have to be afraid of me ;-)

ST

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 8:22 PM, leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:

> This is what I use (SM20):
>
> http://www.lakeland-microscopes.co.uk/stereo.html
>
> The quality is surprisingly good.
>
> Leon
>

In article <0584387B0A3345809AA2DD049702ED36@AZATHOTH>,
   leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:

> This is what I use (SM20):

> http://www.lakeland-microscopes.co.uk/stereo.html

> The quality is surprisingly good.

I have something similar to the SM2010 but by Gallenkamp.

-- 
Stuart
http://www.torrens.org.uk/ZFC/gallery/winsor.html

Go for a stereo zoom microscope. If they have them, get one with a camera mount on it. Then you can mount any kind of camera you want. 
When I bought mine, I also got the movable boom. It adds to the cost some, but makes it much nicer to use and put the scope exactly where you want it.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mcjonster" <mcjonster@...> wrote:

>
> I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.  
> 
> It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.
> 
> Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B
> 
> I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.
> 
> Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/suggestions?
>

Go for stereo microscope, but be careful. Here atre my practical
experience:

1. if you have larger PCBs, you'll need longer arm for microscope, but
here the cheap crap is useless. It's not rigid and picture will shake.
Good arm for at least 50cm working area will cost you more than few
cheap stereo microscopes.
2. Don't look for magnifications larger than 15-20. It's enough for 0201
or 0.5mm pitch. Normally, x5 is most commonly used for all work.
3. Look for good illumination. Cheap bulbs are useless. I replaced with
power LED - it's like night and day.
4. Get good grip or holding tool with heavy base, which will hold your
PCB in place. For hand soldering QFNs it's very practical to tilt the
PCB, but you'll have to move it 4 times for each chip - get holder with
handy quick release.
5. ... I can't remember anything else at the moment. That's all which is
usually under my microscope, beside good soldering station, good
tweezers, flux gel, gull wing tips for my weller, desoldering wick...
... ...

That's for hand soldering work.

M.



javaguy11111 pravi:

>  
>
> Go for a stereo zoom microscope. If they have them, get one with a
> camera mount on it. Then you can mount any kind of camera you want.
> When I bought mine, I also got the movable boom. It adds to the cost
> some, but makes it much nicer to use and put the scope exactly where
> you want it.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "mcjonster" <mcjonster@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope. There are
> many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.
> >
> > It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.
> >
> > Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital
> microscope like this one:
> http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B
> <http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B>
> >
> > I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens
> as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just
> didn't know what I was doing.
> >
> > Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I
> could hook up to my netbook. Any experiences/suggestions?
> >
>

I agree.  Stereo zoom is what I would go with. I have done a bit of microscope repair,
for the hospital where I work.   This gives me access to whatever kind of microscope
I need.  We have at least three Olympus stereo zoom units. Of course for my own use
I'm off the clock.
Gary Webb NI9V

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...> wrote:

From: javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Stereo Microscope vs Digital Microscopes?
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 4:11 PM






 




    
                  Go for a stereo zoom microscope. If they have them, get one with a camera mount on it. Then you can mount any kind of camera you want. 

When I bought mine, I also got the movable boom. It adds to the cost some, but makes it much nicer to use and put the scope exactly where you want it.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, "mcjonster" <mcjonster@. ..> wrote:

>

> I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.  

> 

> It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.

> 

> Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonop tical.com/ Pocket_Microscop es/Pocket_ Microscopes/ MM-480B

> 

> I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.

> 

> Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/ suggestions?

>




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You have 3 pairs of eyes!!!!......Sigourney Weaver come here, I have a small job for you if you have time.........

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have an older B&L Stereozoom 4 that works quite well. I was given the head and a couple of stand parts many years back but had to build the base and arm pipes.

The important thing is not to go too high on the magnificaiton. With higher magnificaitons your vield of view is restricted, you have limited depth of field and the lense to object distances becomes quite close, making soldering a problem.

The zoom head of my microscope goes from .7x to 3x. The head came with 15X eye pieces which I changed out to 10X for a net power of 7x to 30x.  To this I added a .5X Barlow auxiliary objective lense to reduce magnificaiton by 50% and double the lense to object distance for easer soldering.  The net magnificaiton is now 3.5x to 15x which is just about what you need.  I can always remove the Barlow and double the power.

You also want a long arm stand so larger boards are not a problem.  I can swing the head over the edge of my bench to gain access to boards mounted in some chassis or assembly.  Also get an LED ring light for illumination.

Craig

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mcjonster" <mcjonster@...> wrote:

>
> I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.  
> 
> It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.
> 
> Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B
> 
> I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.
> 
> Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/suggestions?
>

I would suggest getting a used dynascope, way easier on the eyes and very comfortable

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@...> wrote:

>
> I have an older B&L Stereozoom 4 that works quite well. I was given the head and a couple of stand parts many years back but had to build the base and arm pipes.
> 
> The important thing is not to go too high on the magnificaiton. With higher magnificaitons your vield of view is restricted, you have limited depth of field and the lense to object distances becomes quite close, making soldering a problem.
> 
> The zoom head of my microscope goes from .7x to 3x. The head came with 15X eye pieces which I changed out to 10X for a net power of 7x to 30x.  To this I added a .5X Barlow auxiliary objective lense to reduce magnificaiton by 50% and double the lense to object distance for easer soldering.  The net magnificaiton is now 3.5x to 15x which is just about what you need.  I can always remove the Barlow and double the power.
> 
> You also want a long arm stand so larger boards are not a problem.  I can swing the head over the edge of my bench to gain access to boards mounted in some chassis or assembly.  Also get an LED ring light for illumination.
> 
> Craig
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mcjonster" <mcjonster@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for suggestions on a decent stereo microscope.  There are many options on ebay but I have no idea what is good for SMD PCB work.  
> > 
> > It'd be nice to be able to solder or fix stuff as well as inspect.
> > 
> > Also, I was thinking that maybe a good option would be a digital microscope like this one: http://www.carsonoptical.com/Pocket_Microscopes/Pocket_Microscopes/MM-480B
> > 
> > I always seemed to have problems looking through a microscope lens as whenever I blink I'd see my eyelashes and stuff but I probably just didn't know what I was doing.
> > 
> > Anyway, it sounds like a good idea to get a digital one which I could hook up to my netbook.  Any experiences/suggestions?
> >
>

Slightly O.T., But I've been sort of tuned in lately reading
about what you guys all think about stereo microscopes for
doing tiny SMD PCB work.   At relatively low magnification.
Around 40x.  Here's my question, I am needing a good microscope
to use to work on, and inspect old Edison cylinder phonograph
styli, both for recording and reproduction.  These are sapphire
jeweled things, and are highly polished.  A good look at them
requires at least 100x, and I have looked at them a couple
of times at 200x and 400x, and that is really a good view!

Any ideas about where I might look for such a tool that would
go from maybe 100x, 200x, 400x?

Thanks,  Chuck Richards
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: redliquid33@...
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Stereo Microscope vs Digital
>Microscopes?
>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:46:16 -0000
>
>>I would suggest getting a used dynascope, way easier on the eyes and
>very comfortable
>>



$4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!

Do you need stereoscopic vision or just a 2d image?

ST

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 7:53 AM, chuck richards <chuckrr@...> wrote:
> Slightly O.T., But I've been sort of tuned in lately reading
> about what you guys all think about stereo microscopes for
> doing tiny SMD PCB work.   At relatively low magnification.
> Around 40x.  Here's my question, I am needing a good microscope
> to use to work on, and inspect old Edison cylinder phonograph
> styli, both for recording and reproduction.  These are sapphire
> jeweled things, and are highly polished.  A good look at them
> requires at least 100x, and I have looked at them a couple
> of times at 200x and 400x, and that is really a good view!
>
> Any ideas about where I might look for such a tool that would
> go from maybe 100x, 200x, 400x?
>
> Thanks,  Chuck Richards
>>

Forget that comment, it's too early in the morning...

Maybe you can get a metallurgical microscope somewhere, used?
<http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-40x-600x-Metallurgical-Compound-Microscope-w-LIGHT_W0QQitemZ370275157319QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0>

If you add the incident light source yourself, you should have far
more options (medical microscopes with transmitted light for slides).
You may have trouble getting light under the high magnification
objectives (800 and more) but since you only need 400 that should
probably be fine without through the objective lighting. If you can
get your hands on any microscope (even a kids toy) try it with a
strong LED flashlight or something.

ST

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:00 AM, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> Do you need stereoscopic vision or just a 2d image?
>
> ST
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 7:53 AM, chuck richards <chuckrr@all2easy.net> wrote:
>> Slightly O.T., But I've been sort of tuned in lately reading
>> about what you guys all think about stereo microscopes for
>> doing tiny SMD PCB work.   At relatively low magnification.
>> Around 40x.  Here's my question, I am needing a good microscope
>> to use to work on, and inspect old Edison cylinder phonograph
>> styli, both for recording and reproduction.  These are sapphire
>> jeweled things, and are highly polished.  A good look at them
>> requires at least 100x, and I have looked at them a couple
>> of times at 200x and 400x, and that is really a good view!
>>
>> Any ideas about where I might look for such a tool that would
>> go from maybe 100x, 200x, 400x?
>>
>> Thanks,  Chuck Richards
>>>
>

I'd start cruising Ebay and Craiglist. You could get a cheaper( student) 
one to get by and eventually a deal will be found on a better one.
I got several off of Ebay for ranging from $65 to $200. All where Zoom, 
some with bases. (1ea)Nikon, (2ea)Olympus'


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