Homebrew PCBs

Last night I got all geared up to start making PCB #5 - my first  
double-sider. As with many possibly short-lived hobbies, I'm trying to  
do this with a minimum of capital outlay using whatever's lying around  
(no matter how inappropriate).

The gloss paper I have works well when it works, but it's 4x6 photo  
stuff, quite thick and with a nice curl on it that will often jam in  
the printer if I don't bend it just right prior to feeding it in.  
Also, the ancient HP 5MP is running low on toner and is a bit light on  
the left hand side (which is where the photo paper travels,  
naturally). (And, yes the 5MP does have a more-or-less flat paper path  
mode, which I am using)

So last night after three jams in a row, I decided to tape the paper  
into the centre of an A4 sheet (just tape the leading edge). This  
appeared to work well, despite going in slightly crooked and the  
mysterious disappearance of the "0" width dimension lines - which I  
didn't even notice at first.

Skipping the details, what I later discovered (after ironing and  
soaking one side, but fortunately before any drilling or etching), is  
that the whole output was vertically shrunk - presumably the extra  
drag of all that thickness (but other possibilities are: I've wrecked  
the whole feed mechanism with my tinkering, or that this was a one-off  
caused by the paper going in crooked). I would have thought that the  
80gsm paper plus, oh, 200gsm card would have been just within the  
abilities of the printer, but maybe not.

So, to conclude:

* Has anyone successfully stuck thick card in the middle of normal  
paper?
* If not - watch out overyone! If this wasn't a DS board, I would have  
never noticed until solder time
* Are folks using thinner, larger gloss paper? Is that abundant? (What  
I like about the 4x6 is that I don't waste so much)

Any other thoughts appreciated

PG

I've stuck the thick Pulsar paper to regular paper and sent it through
my laser printers in the past.  However, even on just bond paper my
printers shrink the print a little, about 0.5% to 1%.  Are you seeing
a small even shrinkage, or random major shrinkage?  Can you measure a
reference print and compensate?  (assuming your software has that
feature, gEDA's pcb does).  Oh - and measure the toner on the pcb, not
the toner on the printer, as the rest of the process changes the size
a little also.

However, I have had cases where "card stock" (100lb, 5x thicker than
standard bond) has problems getting through my current laser printer.
It depends.

This is probably something in the 10% range. What I failed to clearly  
express is that is only vertical (i.e. along the length of the paper)  
horizontally, it seems pretty perfect (I can only hold a draft print  
on normal paper above it with bright light - they line up well across  
but not up and down. Which is why I assume it's due to drag.

Plus the PCB's I have made *do* line up with the iPod connector which  
is a series of 15, 16mil traces, which is very obviously wrong on this  
one. (Though, I was almost certainly printing it at 90° to the current  
arrangement in the past)

I just got my other half to check the stock's weight and it's 210 gsm,  
so the total was 290, which is 3.6 x the standard weight here ... HP  
sez that 158 is the max (42lbs) so I was almost double.

Didn't somebody say they were using pages out of some catalogue?

PG

On 24/03/2009, at 12:38 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

>
> I've stuck the thick Pulsar paper to regular paper and sent it through
> my laser printers in the past. However, even on just bond paper my
> printers shrink the print a little, about 0.5% to 1%. Are you seeing
> a small even shrinkage, or random major shrinkage? Can you measure a
> reference print and compensate? (assuming your software has that
> feature, gEDA's pcb does). Oh - and measure the toner on the pcb, not
> the toner on the printer, as the rest of the process changes the size
> a little also.
>
> However, I have had cases where "card stock" (100lb, 5x thicker than
> standard bond) has problems getting through my current laser printer.
> It depends.
>
>

I use HammerMill Color Laser Gloss paper (16311-0). This is 32 # and easily passes thru printers. The thinner paper also takes less time and pressure to transfer the toner. Also less time to soak off the paper. I have used the heavier photo paper and the above paper is far easier to use, not to mention substantially less money. I believe it is around $11.00 for 300 sheets. I have tried a number of papers and this is the best I have found. It is available at Staples here. 

RD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:
> 
> I just got my other half to check the stock's weight and it's 210 gsm,  
> so the total was 290, which is 3.6 x the standard weight here ... HP  
> sez that 158 is the max (42lbs) so I was almost double.
> 
> Didn't somebody say they were using pages out of some catalogue?
> 
> PG
> 

Yes - I have used the program from a theatrical performance.  It worked great.  None of the 'ink' transferred, only the toner, and the paper cam off sooo easy with a little soak in some water.  I could not tell you the exact weight of the paper, but it is thinner than my 22lb. paper I use to print nicer graphic stuff in color.

Mike

I used paper from the Harbor Freight mailers for a few years with my Brother laser printer (ugh!). The Press 'n Peel Blue tech rep told me that some of the newer printers used hotter temperatures that might cause problems with that product. The catalog paper worked pretty well scotch-taped taped to a sheet of printer paper.

KC 
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:

>
> This is probably something in the 10% range. What I failed to clearly  
> express is that is only vertical (i.e. along the length of the paper)  
> horizontally, it seems pretty perfect (I can only hold a draft print  
> on normal paper above it with bright light - they line up well across  
> but not up and down. Which is why I assume it's due to drag.
> 
> Plus the PCB's I have made *do* line up with the iPod connector which  
> is a series of 15, 16mil traces, which is very obviously wrong on this  
> one. (Though, I was almost certainly printing it at 90° to the current  
> arrangement in the past)
> 
> I just got my other half to check the stock's weight and it's 210 gsm,  
> so the total was 290, which is 3.6 x the standard weight here ... HP  
> sez that 158 is the max (42lbs) so I was almost double.
> 
> Didn't somebody say they were using pages out of some catalogue?
> 
> PG
> 
> On 24/03/2009, at 12:38 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've stuck the thick Pulsar paper to regular paper and sent it through
> > my laser printers in the past. However, even on just bond paper my
> > printers shrink the print a little, about 0.5% to 1%. Are you seeing
> > a small even shrinkage, or random major shrinkage? Can you measure a
> > reference print and compensate? (assuming your software has that
> > feature, gEDA's pcb does). Oh - and measure the toner on the pcb, not
> > the toner on the printer, as the rest of the process changes the size
> > a little also.
> >
> > However, I have had cases where "card stock" (100lb, 5x thicker than
> > standard bond) has problems getting through my current laser printer.
> > It depends.
> >
> >
>

For the record I tried and had usable-but-demanding results with  
noncoated ("plain-but-glossy") 140gsm paper - I had to basically hand- 
scrape the last layer of paper out of the clear areas with a skewer,  
but I do have a *working* SMD USB mini-B socket coming off an iPod  
connector, which I feel a little pride in.

But it has become clear in that the paper path in our venerable 5MP  
has become compromised (I guess I'm the prime suspect) and the low- 
toner situation so low that I'm just out of the zone where I can do or  
learn much that is useful.

With this thinner paper I thought I had "squashed" the toner when  
ironing - it "grew" - but I now think that my have been the side with  
almost no toner on it (later attempts not squashed, but toner not  
sticking as well as with the other paper). I also did a small "delorie- 
inspired" 6mil spiral, which looked like it might have worked with non- 
fibrous paper, but I didn't even attempt to clear it off

I'm lucky enough to work where there's quite a bit of orphaned  
specialty paper around, so if I can fix whatever roller I've buggered  
and get some toner, there's some 150 gsm A4 "gloss coated" Tektronix  
paper I might give a go. They don't say what it's coated with, could  
be yoghurt ...

PG

On 27/03/2009, at 4:37 AM, Ted Bruce KX4OM wrote:

> I used paper from the Harbor Freight mailers for a few years with my  
> Brother laser printer (ugh!). The Press 'n Peel Blue tech rep told  
> me that some of the newer printers used hotter temperatures that  
> might cause problems with that product. The catalog paper worked  
> pretty well scotch-taped taped to a sheet of printer paper.
>
> KC
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is probably something in the 10% range. What I failed to  
> clearly
> > express is that is only vertical (i.e. along the length of the  
> paper)
> > horizontally, it seems pretty perfect (I can only hold a draft print
> > on normal paper above it with bright light - they line up well  
> across
> > but not up and down. Which is why I assume it's due to drag.
> >
> > Plus the PCB's I have made *do* line up with the iPod connector  
> which
> > is a series of 15, 16mil traces, which is very obviously wrong on  
> this
> > one. (Though, I was almost certainly printing it at 90° to the  
> current
> > arrangement in the past)
> >
> > I just got my other half to check the stock's weight and it's 210  
> gsm,
> > so the total was 290, which is 3.6 x the standard weight here ... HP
> > sez that 158 is the max (42lbs) so I was almost double.
> >
> > Didn't somebody say they were using pages out of some catalogue?
> >
> > PG
> >
> > On 24/03/2009, at 12:38 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I've stuck the thick Pulsar paper to regular paper and sent it  
> through
> > > my laser printers in the past. However, even on just bond paper my
> > > printers shrink the print a little, about 0.5% to 1%. Are you  
> seeing
> > > a small even shrinkage, or random major shrinkage? Can you  
> measure a
> > > reference print and compensate? (assuming your software has that
> > > feature, gEDA's pcb does). Oh - and measure the toner on the  
> pcb, not
> > > the toner on the printer, as the rest of the process changes the  
> size
> > > a little also.
> > >
> > > However, I have had cases where "card stock" (100lb, 5x thicker  
> than
> > > standard bond) has problems getting through my current laser  
> printer.
> > > It depends.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>