Homebrew PCBs

Hello,

    My name is Jerry Kaidor.   I've been messing with electronics for 
many many years.  Also put in a 20-year stint as a firmware developer.

   The other day, I was doing a project with a PIC16F867A 
microcontroller.  Built up the circuit on one of those proto boards 
that have a grid of three-hole lands.  The resulting forest of little 
green wires did not inspire confidence.  Neither did the smoke that 
came out when I powered it up :).

   So I decided that a PCB would be more appropriate.  Found this 
group, read with interest about Toner Transfer.  I had tried this 
about 10 years ago, it didn't work at that time.  Like many things, 
the devil is in the details.

   This time, armed with better info, I downloaded the expressPCB 
software ( can't beat the price! ).  I designed a one-sided board for 
my project and printed it onto a sheet of Epson photo paper that I 
had laying around.  Found a gungy old piece of copper clad in the 
garage, spent about a half hour cleaning it off with 000 steel wool, 
paper towels, lacquer thinner, more paper towels, cosmetics buffs, 
etc etc.   Transferred the printout with my wife's clothes iron.  
Wow!  It came out perfect!

   The only problem ( and I realized this unfortunately when it was 
already mostly etched ) was that it was mirror imaged.  I had used a 
function in my printer setup that causes the printer to print mirror-
imaged - but apparently it wasn't needed.  Grrr!  OK, I'd just
solder all the parts on the top :).  Or just do it again...

   To play with the process, I started drilling holes.  Hit a snag.  
My smallest "ordinary" drill bit was a #60.  It was just too big.  I 
also had some little tiny PCB drills that I got at the ham swap some 
years ago.  Too small!  (.8mm, I think )Also, chucked in my giant 
tabletop drill press, the tiny bit only lasted three holes before 
breaking.

   So - how does one drill these holes?  I'll pick up an assortment 
of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is 
going to work.  Alternatives I see:

   * Jameco lists a little drill and press for about $60.
   * There is a Dremel drill press accessory for about $50.
   * I have a Sherline milling machine.  Sherline lists a "sensitive
     drilling attachment" that chucks into the mill.  Basically, 
     the mill only drives and holds the attachment - you move it up  
and down via a knurled ring.  This really looks like a hot setup, but
it's not cheap - $110.

                         - Jerry Kaidor

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "jerrytr2.com" <jerry@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] How do you Drill Them?


> Hello,
>
>    My name is Jerry Kaidor.   I've been messing with electronics for
> many many years.  Also put in a 20-year stint as a firmware developer.
>
>   The other day, I was doing a project with a PIC16F867A
> microcontroller.  Built up the circuit on one of those proto boards
> that have a grid of three-hole lands.  The resulting forest of little
> green wires did not inspire confidence.  Neither did the smoke that
> came out when I powered it up :).
>
>   So I decided that a PCB would be more appropriate.  Found this
> group, read with interest about Toner Transfer.  I had tried this
> about 10 years ago, it didn't work at that time.  Like many things,
> the devil is in the details.
>
>   This time, armed with better info, I downloaded the expressPCB
> software ( can't beat the price! ).  I designed a one-sided board for
> my project and printed it onto a sheet of Epson photo paper that I
> had laying around.  Found a gungy old piece of copper clad in the
> garage, spent about a half hour cleaning it off with 000 steel wool,
> paper towels, lacquer thinner, more paper towels, cosmetics buffs,
> etc etc.   Transferred the printout with my wife's clothes iron.
> Wow!  It came out perfect!
>
>   The only problem ( and I realized this unfortunately when it was
> already mostly etched ) was that it was mirror imaged.  I had used a
> function in my printer setup that causes the printer to print mirror-
> imaged - but apparently it wasn't needed.  Grrr!  OK, I'd just
> solder all the parts on the top :).  Or just do it again...
>
>   To play with the process, I started drilling holes.  Hit a snag.
> My smallest "ordinary" drill bit was a #60.  It was just too big.  I
> also had some little tiny PCB drills that I got at the ham swap some
> years ago.  Too small!  (.8mm, I think )Also, chucked in my giant
> tabletop drill press, the tiny bit only lasted three holes before
> breaking.
>
>   So - how does one drill these holes?  I'll pick up an assortment
> of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is
> going to work.  Alternatives I see:

I normally use 0.7 mm or 0.8 mm drills for most component holes. I use 
reduced-shank tungsten carbide drills with a Minicraft drill in a cheap 
Minicraft drill stand. I have to be very careful when drilling FR4 material 
(the drills break easily), but it's fine with FEC-1. I use resharpened 
drills, they aren't very expensive, and are available from Mega Electronics.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign  G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND transceiver
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

"jerrytr2.com" <jerry@...> writes:
>    So - how does one drill these holes?

I built a jig for my dremel out of some scrap wood - cantilevered
arms, haven't broken a bit with it yet.  I got a box of random sized
carbide PCB drills (resharpened) for $50, although I pretty much only
use the 13, 26, and 35 mil ones.  I also have a set of #61-#80 wire
drills from Woodcraft that I sometimes use with it.

http://www.delorie.com/pcb/dremel-stand/

The only wiggle left in that system is the runout in the dremel
itself.

I recently bought a cheap 'ryobi' bench-top drill press - it costs about
$110AU which is about $70US. Its made in china, nothing special. It comes
with a "laser" (think doctor evil) which is supposed to help hit the right
spot but I dont see the point. (no pun intended)

I typically use 0.8mm bits for most component holes, and FR4 ~1.5mm thick.
I've only drilled one board (~30 holes) but no broken bits. I try to ensure
that the minimum amount of the drill bit is protruding from the chuck, to
reduce breakages.

James.

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:26 AM, jerrytr2.com <jerry@...> wrote:

>   Hello,
>
> My name is Jerry Kaidor. I've been messing with electronics for
> many many years. Also put in a 20-year stint as a firmware developer.
>
> The other day, I was doing a project with a PIC16F867A
> microcontroller. Built up the circuit on one of those proto boards
> that have a grid of three-hole lands. The resulting forest of little
> green wires did not inspire confidence. Neither did the smoke that
> came out when I powered it up :).
>
> So I decided that a PCB would be more appropriate. Found this
> group, read with interest about Toner Transfer. I had tried this
> about 10 years ago, it didn't work at that time. Like many things,
> the devil is in the details.
>
> This time, armed with better info, I downloaded the expressPCB
> software ( can't beat the price! ). I designed a one-sided board for
> my project and printed it onto a sheet of Epson photo paper that I
> had laying around. Found a gungy old piece of copper clad in the
> garage, spent about a half hour cleaning it off with 000 steel wool,
> paper towels, lacquer thinner, more paper towels, cosmetics buffs,
> etc etc. Transferred the printout with my wife's clothes iron.
> Wow! It came out perfect!
>
> The only problem ( and I realized this unfortunately when it was
> already mostly etched ) was that it was mirror imaged. I had used a
> function in my printer setup that causes the printer to print mirror-
> imaged - but apparently it wasn't needed. Grrr! OK, I'd just
> solder all the parts on the top :). Or just do it again...
>
> To play with the process, I started drilling holes. Hit a snag.
> My smallest "ordinary" drill bit was a #60. It was just too big. I
> also had some little tiny PCB drills that I got at the ham swap some
> years ago. Too small! (.8mm, I think )Also, chucked in my giant
> tabletop drill press, the tiny bit only lasted three holes before
> breaking.
>
> So - how does one drill these holes? I'll pick up an assortment
> of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is
> going to work. Alternatives I see:
>
> * Jameco lists a little drill and press for about $60.
> * There is a Dremel drill press accessory for about $50.
> * I have a Sherline milling machine. Sherline lists a "sensitive
> drilling attachment" that chucks into the mill. Basically,
> the mill only drives and holds the attachment - you move it up
> and down via a knurled ring. This really looks like a hot setup, but
> it's not cheap - $110.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> So - how does one drill these holes?  I'll pick up an assortment
> of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is
> going to work.

I use a Black and Becker hand-held mini-drill.  Photo here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/2840023402

I use both 1.0mm and 0.8mm drills, tungsten carbide, to suit the
components to be fitted.  I find that it helps to have a "dot"
of the right size pre-etched into the pads -- check the settings
in your CAD software to get the size right.  This acts like a
centre-punch mark, and keeps the bit on target.

-- 
John Honniball.

Hi Jerry,

I had the same experience as you. I'm an EE and do a lot of 1-off's
and proto-typing. Many years ago I tried Toner Transfer with special
paper and had very mediocre results. Several traces would always lift
and be damaged the the end product was very hobby looking. I switched
to the positive photo process with pre-sensitized boards. Kind of a
pain but always good results. After reading here, I tried TT again and
the results have been excellent. I rarely have a botched board and I
can easily handle 8/8 geometries (mils). I almost always do TT now
(thanks group!!!). I think paper is the big secret - I use the
Hammermill Office Gloss stuff (Hammermill OfficeOne Glossy Paper 
#229030) with an iron and it works great. I've heard this has gone
extinct, my next choice would be Hammermill Color Laser Gloss Paper -
300 ct #292253 (Sams). I think this might be the same stuff with a new
name. It seems the secret is a thin light weight (cheap) glossy paper.
Usually called something like business gloss. I haven't tried this yet
but I just ordered a pack from Sam's Club to see what it's like.

Drilling is the big pain. I by the carbide bits from Jameco (#59 &
#75) and use a good drill press (I have an older Black & Decker from
when they were made in the US). It works quite well although the speed
should be higher for PCB's (I do have a small milling machine on my
x-mas list - hehe ... but yes, even the small ones are not cheap, $320
for the micro-mill from Harbor Freight). Someone here built a pretty
cool jig for holding a Dremel tool a while back. I'm sure it's in the
archives and I think there are even pictures of it uploaded.

One thing I did was switch to surface mounted parts where ever
possible. Once you get used to them, they're just as easy to work with
and the number of holes to drill goes way down ... usually just the
vias and a couple of connectors.

One other tip I like, When I'm done, I smear the whole board with a
little flux paste (harder to find but MCM still sells some), heavily
tin a large tip on the soldering iron, and drag it over the whole
board. Tins it up really nice in no time at all.

Phil
KA0HBG


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "jerrytr2.com" <jerry@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
>     My name is Jerry Kaidor.   I've been messing with electronics for 
> many many years.  Also put in a 20-year stint as a firmware developer.
> 
>    The other day, I was doing a project with a PIC16F867A 
> microcontroller.  Built up the circuit on one of those proto boards 
> that have a grid of three-hole lands.  The resulting forest of little 
> green wires did not inspire confidence.  Neither did the smoke that 
> came out when I powered it up :).
> 
>    So I decided that a PCB would be more appropriate.  Found this 
> group, read with interest about Toner Transfer.  I had tried this 
> about 10 years ago, it didn't work at that time.  Like many things, 
> the devil is in the details.
> 
>    This time, armed with better info, I downloaded the expressPCB 
> software ( can't beat the price! ).  I designed a one-sided board for 
> my project and printed it onto a sheet of Epson photo paper that I 
> had laying around.  Found a gungy old piece of copper clad in the 
> garage, spent about a half hour cleaning it off with 000 steel wool, 
> paper towels, lacquer thinner, more paper towels, cosmetics buffs, 
> etc etc.   Transferred the printout with my wife's clothes iron.  
> Wow!  It came out perfect!
> 
>    The only problem ( and I realized this unfortunately when it was 
> already mostly etched ) was that it was mirror imaged.  I had used a 
> function in my printer setup that causes the printer to print mirror-
> imaged - but apparently it wasn't needed.  Grrr!  OK, I'd just
> solder all the parts on the top :).  Or just do it again...
> 
>    To play with the process, I started drilling holes.  Hit a snag.  
> My smallest "ordinary" drill bit was a #60.  It was just too big.  I 
> also had some little tiny PCB drills that I got at the ham swap some 
> years ago.  Too small!  (.8mm, I think )Also, chucked in my giant 
> tabletop drill press, the tiny bit only lasted three holes before 
> breaking.
> 
>    So - how does one drill these holes?  I'll pick up an assortment 
> of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is 
> going to work.  Alternatives I see:
> 
>    * Jameco lists a little drill and press for about $60.
>    * There is a Dremel drill press accessory for about $50.
>    * I have a Sherline milling machine.  Sherline lists a "sensitive
>      drilling attachment" that chucks into the mill.  Basically, 
>      the mill only drives and holds the attachment - you move it up  
> and down via a knurled ring.  This really looks like a hot setup, but
> it's not cheap - $110.
> 
>                          - Jerry Kaidor
>

I have a couple of Dremel drill presses, the old one where the table 
raised to the bit and the new one that lowers the Dremel tool into 
the work piece. 

I asked at mt dentist and they saved, autoclaved and gave me a whole 
small bag of dentist drills and burrs. That was several years ago, 
not sure with all the concerns for dieases these days they would do 
the same thing. The bits seem to work the price was good. 

I have made circuit boards from tapping out the hole pattern with a 
sctatch awl and connecting the "dots" with a Sharpie, using masking 
tape, Hunter Speedball pens and a special lacquer resist a chemist 
friend made, Press and Peel Blue, Need to try the photo paper method 
I have a GBC laminator I modified to slow it down. 

Photo etching using a overhead projector for the exposure lamp, 
worked well too. I removed the actual projection lens and used the 
projector "table" top. Did pretty good, exposed a circuit board in 
about 30 seconds. I lay a piece of white plexiglass on it and utilize 
it for a light table too.

Anyway the Dremel drill press always worked well for me. I am now 
assembling a CNC router for my PC boards and should have it 
operational over my annual Christmas vacation. Should be fun to watch 
it chew through the copper clads board and drill the holes for me.

Gary Fiber K8IZ

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "jerrytr2.com" <jerry@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
>     My name is Jerry Kaidor.   I've been messing with electronics 
for 
> many many years.  Also put in a 20-year stint as a firmware 
developer.
> 
>    The other day, I was doing a project with a PIC16F867A 
> microcontroller.  Built up the circuit on one of those proto boards 
> that have a grid of three-hole lands.  The resulting forest of 
little 
> green wires did not inspire confidence.  Neither did the smoke that 
> came out when I powered it up :).
> 
>    So I decided that a PCB would be more appropriate.  Found this 
> group, read with interest about Toner Transfer.  I had tried this 
> about 10 years ago, it didn't work at that time.  Like many things, 
> the devil is in the details.
> 
>    This time, armed with better info, I downloaded the expressPCB 
> software ( can't beat the price! ).  I designed a one-sided board 
for 
> my project and printed it onto a sheet of Epson photo paper that I 
> had laying around.  Found a gungy old piece of copper clad in the 
> garage, spent about a half hour cleaning it off with 000 steel 
wool, 
> paper towels, lacquer thinner, more paper towels, cosmetics buffs, 
> etc etc.   Transferred the printout with my wife's clothes iron.  
> Wow!  It came out perfect!
> 
>    The only problem ( and I realized this unfortunately when it was 
> already mostly etched ) was that it was mirror imaged.  I had used 
a 
> function in my printer setup that causes the printer to print 
mirror-
> imaged - but apparently it wasn't needed.  Grrr!  OK, I'd just
> solder all the parts on the top :).  Or just do it again...
> 
>    To play with the process, I started drilling holes.  Hit a 
snag.  
> My smallest "ordinary" drill bit was a #60.  It was just too big.  
I 
> also had some little tiny PCB drills that I got at the ham swap 
some 
> years ago.  Too small!  (.8mm, I think )Also, chucked in my giant 
> tabletop drill press, the tiny bit only lasted three holes before 
> breaking.
> 
>    So - how does one drill these holes?  I'll pick up an assortment 
> of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is 
> going to work.  Alternatives I see:
> 
>    * Jameco lists a little drill and press for about $60.
>    * There is a Dremel drill press accessory for about $50.
>    * I have a Sherline milling machine.  Sherline lists a "sensitive
>      drilling attachment" that chucks into the mill.  Basically, 
>      the mill only drives and holds the attachment - you move it 
up  
> and down via a knurled ring.  This really looks like a hot setup, 
but

> it's not cheap - $110.
> 
>                          - Jerry Kaidor
>

I too use the Dremel tool with the Dremel Drill Press. I have had very
good luck and have drilled a lot of holes with the same bit. There is
3 piece chuck set for using it as a drill.  I also have an aquarium
bubbler that I am going to use to blow the dust away from the holes
just drilled.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "jerrytr2.com" <jerry@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
>     My name is Jerry Kaidor.   I've been messing with electronics for 
> many many years.  Also put in a 20-year stint as a firmware developer.
> 
>    The other day, I was doing a project with a PIC16F867A 
> microcontroller.  Built up the circuit on one of those proto boards 
> that have a grid of three-hole lands.  The resulting forest of little 
> green wires did not inspire confidence.  Neither did the smoke that 
> came out when I powered it up :).
> 
>    So I decided that a PCB would be more appropriate.  Found this 
> group, read with interest about Toner Transfer.  I had tried this 
> about 10 years ago, it didn't work at that time.  Like many things, 
> the devil is in the details.
> 
>    This time, armed with better info, I downloaded the expressPCB 
> software ( can't beat the price! ).  I designed a one-sided board for 
> my project and printed it onto a sheet of Epson photo paper that I 
> had laying around.  Found a gungy old piece of copper clad in the 
> garage, spent about a half hour cleaning it off with 000 steel wool, 
> paper towels, lacquer thinner, more paper towels, cosmetics buffs, 
> etc etc.   Transferred the printout with my wife's clothes iron.  
> Wow!  It came out perfect!
> 
>    The only problem ( and I realized this unfortunately when it was 
> already mostly etched ) was that it was mirror imaged.  I had used a 
> function in my printer setup that causes the printer to print mirror-
> imaged - but apparently it wasn't needed.  Grrr!  OK, I'd just
> solder all the parts on the top :).  Or just do it again...
> 
>    To play with the process, I started drilling holes.  Hit a snag.  
> My smallest "ordinary" drill bit was a #60.  It was just too big.  I 
> also had some little tiny PCB drills that I got at the ham swap some 
> years ago.  Too small!  (.8mm, I think )Also, chucked in my giant 
> tabletop drill press, the tiny bit only lasted three holes before 
> breaking.
> 
>    So - how does one drill these holes?  I'll pick up an assortment 
> of PCB drill bits today, but I don't think my giant drill press is 
> going to work.  Alternatives I see:
> 
>    * Jameco lists a little drill and press for about $60.
>    * There is a Dremel drill press accessory for about $50.
>    * I have a Sherline milling machine.  Sherline lists a "sensitive
>      drilling attachment" that chucks into the mill.  Basically, 
>      the mill only drives and holds the attachment - you move it up  
> and down via a knurled ring.  This really looks like a hot setup, but
> it's not cheap - $110.
> 
>                          - Jerry Kaidor
>

I use the Dermel tool and Dermel drill press. Theres others too Dermel
is not the only one around.  I have drilled many a thousands of holes
from .7mm to 2mm.  Most of the time if a bit breaks it is because I
allowed the board to move, that snaps the bit off real fast.

I use a shop vac with a good filter in it to suck up the dust.

One of these days I will get my CNC drilling machine done.

Ben

Hi!

I am using old drill/mill tools from local PCB manufacturer. They waste
tools, which may be used for hobby for long time. I buld CNC machine and
use kress motor:
http://mare.moj-album.com/album/7045942/?os=11208495

Machine has manual control for drilling, but for PCBs with higher hole
count I import coordinates from NC/Drill files from PCB CAD software.

M.

Hi Marko

Please share the info on how to build you're CNC.

some assembly drawings would be nice

best regard
Rene

2008/12/17 Marko Pavlin <mp@...>

> Hi!
>
> I am using old drill/mill tools from local PCB manufacturer. They waste
> tools, which may be used for hobby for long time. I buld CNC machine and
> use kress motor:
> http://mare.moj-album.com/album/7045942/?os=11208495
>
> Machine has manual control for drilling, but for PCBs with higher hole
> count I import coordinates from NC/Drill files from PCB CAD software.
>
> M.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]