Homebrew_PCBs

That process looked fantastic. It appeared that the chemistry was safe
enough and he did not seem to mind washing it all down the sink
afterwards. Be great to find out more about that process. I wonder
what the plating chemistry is.

Trev

--- On Sun, 11/9/08, leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:

trevwhite74 wrote:

> That process looked fantastic. It appeared that the chemistry was safe
> enough and he did not seem to mind washing it all down the sink
> afterwards. Be great to find out more about that process. I wonder
> what the plating chemistry is.

I've looked at the different PTH methods used in industry, and I haven't
seen anything like that. The PCB started out as double sided etched
traces without holes. It was covered in some lacquer probably to mask
the traces and PCB from the subsequent electroless step. The holes were
then drilled exposing the epoxy laminate in holes walls.
A series of three chemicals were applied. Possibly the lacquer coating
on the surface inhibits the electroless seed layer from forming. I
assume the bubble bath at the end was the actual electroless copper ,
but these are normally deep blue.

If the video is genuine, then yes it very interesting. I'm a little
suspicious though. If true, the hole plating thickness would be no more
than a micron. People normally electroplate their holes.

--- On Mon, 11/10/08, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> wrote:

"Herbert E. Plett" <cachureos@...> wrote:

>
> --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> wrote:
> > If the video is genuine, then yes it very interesting.
> > I'm a little
> > suspicious though. If true, the hole plating thickness
> > would be no more
> > than a micron. People normally electroplate their holes.
>
> that's why we are hoping some nice Chinese guy translates the video....
>

Looks like this is a new product from Kinsten Taiwan
http://www.kinsten.com.tw/

The site links to two UTube videos

Unfortunately I cannot get the English version of the website to run
I could not find further information in other areas of the site so did
a Google translation of the 'New Product' announcement..

Translation: Chinese » English

NEW-to-date technical support
Photographic film circuit board production process

Hole through the production process of film
NEW-to-date product profiles
1. Pore through the latest chemical techniques

* Brush up-to-date research and development technology, a
substantial saving medicine, the process easier
* Since the success of the Institute of copper alloy plating
solution, close to neutral, having high temperature, almost tasteless,
security and environmental protection
* Longevity activation solution, in the past are no longer easy
to break down medicine troubles
* Coating welding performance is extremely good, much better than
that of ordinary copper coating
* Silver-white color oxide coating is not easy to ensure that the
appearance of the sample quality
* Direct use of chemical plating method, no expensive equipment,
electroplating and metal anodes
* E-payment ET-20 tank can be etched as a plating tank,
convenient, cheap and easy to use


Babelfish Translation
NEW newest technical backstopping Photosensitive circuit wafer
manufacture flow movie Passes through the hole manufacture flow movie
NEW newest product synopsis 1. The newest chemistry passes through the
hole technique * the newest research and development brush plate the
technology, saves the liquid medicines largely, makes the regulation
with ease easy * from grinds the successful copper alloy to plate the
fluid, the close neutrality, does not need the high temperature, is
nearly tasteless, safe environmental protection * the longevity
activates the fluid, no longer has the puzzle which the former liquid
medicines easy to decompose * the coating welding performance is
extremely outstanding, by far common pure copper coating * the
silver-white color coating not easy oxidative stain, to guarantee the
sample the outward appearance quality * use chemistry plates the law
straight, does not need the expensive galvanization equipment and the
anodic metal * the golden electron ET-20 etching bath then does to
plate the trough, convenient, cheap, is also easy to use

> nearly tasteless

And later they will be bringing out

Lime, Cola and Honeydew Melon flavours.

I want the General Tso’s chicken flavour…Yum…. I can’t wait!

Looks interesting though

and while you wait, could you find someone to translate this???
I am sure there is no such 'flavour' word in it....

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Herbert E. Plett <cachureos@...> wrote:

Hi all.

Well I managed to get a translation of the process. Here is what I
have received. I do not know how good the translation is but here it is.

Trev

Through Holes production process
1. Nickel-plated agent modulation
2. Glue fixing straps

Tools
Etching Tank x 1
Thermometer x 1
Heating Pipe x 1
Nickle-plated agent x 2
Fixing straps x 4
Double sided tape x 4

1. Nickel-plated agent modulation
Hold the etching tank with 1 hand and bottle with the other
Pour the chemical slowly (from sideway) into tank - to avoid spatter
When nearly done, change to the normal direction & pour in the remaining
Put the heating pipe into tank (centre) and afixed it to the side
Heating pipe set at approx. 55 degree celcius (50 - 60 degree celcius)
Then plug in the thermometer & oxygen tube
Note - put the standby power supply before putting the heating pipe
power on
Stick the double side tape onto fixing straps

First step - Anti-plating
Purpose - to apply a layer of anti-plating coating on electronic board
a. Unstrap the double-sided tape paper on fixing strap
b. Stick it onto blank paper
c. put the electronic board next to the fixing straps
d. unstrap the other double sided tape paper on fixing strap
e. stick it on the next to the electronic board
Note - Please do not touch the board surface with hand
f. Use anti-plating pen and smear over (from left to right) the board
g. Gently & intermedia speed, in order the whole board is coated with
the anti-plating
h. Needs to apply each coating strap 3 times
i. There is some overlapping between first and second strap, so on and
so fort
Note - Please do not touch the board surface until the coating is 100%
dried up
j. Use hair dyer to dry the coating, without touching the board
surface, takes about 3 mins
k. Take another piece of blank paper and 2 fixing straps, repeat the
same for the other side of the board
l. Repeat the coating on the other side of the board
m. Repeat the drying process

Second Step - Drilling
Note - MUST use the PCB specialise Tungsten/ Wolfram steel drilling needle


Chemical Process
First step - Surface treatment
Purpose - Clean the holes to enhance the plating effect
Time - 3mins (2-4mins)
a. Put 2-3cc surface treatment agent onto board
b. Use brush to apply the agent all over the board surface
c. Use fingers to press on board, make sure liquid has get thru all holes
d. repeat the above for about 3mins, to make sure liquid has get thru
all holes thoroughly
e. Clean brush, container and board with water
f. Fling the brush, container and board till dry

Second Step - Activation
Purpose - To coat the board surface and inner holes with activator agent
Time - 3mins (2-4mins)
a. Put 1-2cc activator agent onto board
b. Use brush to apply the agent all over the board surface
c. Use fingers to press on board, make sure liquid has get thru all holes
d. repeat the above for about 3mins, to make sure liquid has get thru
all holes thoroughly
e. Clean brush, container and board with water
f. Fling the brush, container and board till dry

Step Three - Coat stripping
Purpose - To clear out anti-plating coating
Time - 3mins (2-4mins)
a. Put 2-3cc coat stripping agent onto board
b. Use brush to apply the agent all over the board surface
c. Use fingers to press on board, make sure liquid has get thru all holes
d. repeat the above for about 3mins, to make sure liquid has get thru
all holes thoroughly
e. Clean brush, container and board with water
f. Fling the brush, container and board till dry

Step Four - Pre-plating Treatment
Purpose - Copper Foil pre-plating treatment
Time - 3mins (2-4mins)
a. Put 2-3cc pre-plating treatment agent onto board, this would change
the colour of copper foil if it is working
b. Use brush to apply the agent all over the board surface
c. Use fingers to press on board, make sure liquid has get thru all holes
d. repeat the above for about 3mins, to make sure liquid has get thru
all holes thoroughly
e. Clean brush, container and board with water
f. Fling the brush, container and board till dry
g. If unable to place the board into etching tank within the next 20
second, please soak the board in container filled with water, to avoid
contact to the air

Step Five - Nickel Plating
Purpose - to plate electric conductive metal onto holes and copper foil
Time - approx 30min to an hour (the longer time, the thicker coat)
a. When temperature reaches 55 degree celcius, put the board into
etching tank (filled up with nickel-plated agent)
b. Needs approx. 30mins
c. Should have tiny bubble raising in the nickel-plated agent
d. Upon completion, u are able to see holes are coated with nickel.

The translation matches well with the process shown in the video.
Translation issues
strap == strip (like strip of tape)
etching tank == tank with plating chemicals(step 4)
------
That is pretty interesting.
Would tape or sticky plastic sheet work as well, in step 1? Or maybe
toner? A posibility would be to laser print the negative circuit onto
unplated board (no copper) and than just run the whole thing through
the plating cycle.
What are the chemicals attaching to, the glass, or the epoxy? Or does
it just leach into anything but the anti-plating coating? Any ideas?
I'm on travel, and don't have any spare PCBs around. Does the
fiberglass look like it has pores the chemical could leach into?
We'd have to figure out if acetone would remove it (or poison the
chemicals) if it was used to remove the toner.
But if it just soaks into the board, the toner might not have to be
removed prior to plating, since it would not have soaked up chems.
Sorry, babbling brook.

thanks alot for your effort....
now the remaining task is to find out what the chemicals are, and how/where to get.
thanks again
(I am moving this text to the files section)

>
> thanks alot for your effort....
> now the remaining task is to find out what the chemicals are, and

how/where to get.

trevwhite74 wrote:

>> thanks alot for your effort....
>> now the remaining task is to find out what the chemicals are, and
> how/where to get.
>> thanks again
>> (I am moving this text to the files section)
>>
>>
>
> No problem. The group made me aware of it so nice to share the
> information. I am actually in touch with the company and trying to
> find out if it is possible to buy the kit and how much it will cost to
> ship to the UK. I have no idea at this time if that is possible.
>
> Depending on how much it will cost to try and purchase them I might be
> able to sort out something if others in the UK are interested. Some
> kind of group buy? Fingers crossed they do not cost too much.
>
> Trev
>

Thanks for doing the translation. The process is a lot less mystical
now. Its a novel method they use to selectively plate the holes by their
initial "anti plating" mask coating. They have obviously spent lot of
time working out the process and chemistry, and it might not be cheap.
But like any proprietary highly specialised product, it depends entirely
what the market are willing to pay. Just think what sort of profit
margins do you think are in some perfumes.

People have been using electroless nickel plating on non-conductors for
many years, just like electroless copper. I'm afraid a palladium
chloride solution is used as the "activation" step which cost like
AU$700 /litre last time I checked. The dark brown colour of the
"activator" step in the video gives this away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium_chloride

Two main drawbacks I see are:
* The hole plating thickness will be thin and not suitable for high
current PCBs.
* Nickel salts are quite toxic compared to copper salts.
* Electroless baths are inherently unstable so they might not be good
for hobbyists who use them once a month or so. Hope someone can prove me
wrong here.

And an overview of electroless nickel
http://www.pfonline.com/articles/pfdbarnstead01.html

> Two main drawbacks I see are:
> * The hole plating thickness will be thin and not suitable
> for high
> current PCBs.
> * Nickel salts are quite toxic compared to copper salts.
> * Electroless baths are inherently unstable so they might
> not be good
> for hobbyists who use them once a month or so. Hope someone
> can prove me
> wrong here.
>

the products seem to be pretty safe, judging from the non protection the guy works with and the non care of dumping the washings...
or the guy at Kinsten is a careless clown (?!)

hope the contact with the factory gives good news!

can anybody place the video at the gruops, btw i can't access that video at youtube
thanks

any news on the Kinsten process?