Homebrew PCBs

Hi,

I am about to order eyelets, anvil, and forming tool from
international eyelets.

I guess I would also need an anvil press. Do you have any
recommendations on what to get, and where ? 

Also, is do you think International eyelets is the way to go, or
should I go with someone else ?

NOTE: eyelets are $40 ( minimum order, not sure how many ), the anvil
is $75, and the forming tool another $75 )

Thanks

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:53:24 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am about to order eyelets, anvil, and forming tool from
>international eyelets.

I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias.  This
allows me to use a small (!) ball peen hammer and a block of aluminum
or steel as an anvil.  Seems to work fine for me.  I'd do a forming
tool if I felt it was needed, but who's to say...?

1000 eyelets (another company, another place) has lasted me a
reasonable amount of time.

>
>I guess I would also need an anvil press. Do you have any
>recommendations on what to get, and where ? 
>
>Also, is do you think International eyelets is the way to go, or
>should I go with someone else ?
>
>NOTE: eyelets are $40 ( minimum order, not sure how many ), the anvil
>is $75, and the forming tool another $75 )

If you had a machine shop, you could make one, I bet, or adapt
something.  Hard to say.  A hand center punch tool with a different
front end might work well.

Harvey

>
>Thanks

>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias

What do you mean "separate vias" ?

>>allows me to use a small (!) ball peen hammer and a block of aluminum
>> or steel as an anvil

can you expand a bit here ? I assume the piece of steel is flat, and
you place your PCB with
the eyelet in place on top of it.
Then you use the hammer to form the other side of the eyelet ? Do you
use any other tool along with
the hammer to punch on the eyelet and form it ? or just the hammer is enough ?

What specific hammer do you use ( how small ). I am interested.

You don't happen to have any photos do you ?

Thanks

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:14:10 -0500, you wrote:

>>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias

>
>What do you mean "separate vias" ?

A via is used only to connect the top and bottom layers, but not at a
parts lead.  That way, I do not have to worry about the hole in the
eyelet.  
>
>>>allows me to use a small (!) ball peen hammer and a block of aluminum
>>> or steel as an anvil
>
>can you expand a bit here ? I assume the piece of steel is flat, and
>you place your PCB with
>the eyelet in place on top of it.

That's correct, rolled side down, of course.

>Then you use the hammer to form the other side of the eyelet ? Do you
>use any other tool along with
>the hammer to punch on the eyelet and form it ? or just the hammer is enough ?

The ball peen hammer is enough, I use something about 5 oz or so, and
the round end.  With a little practice, you'll swage the end over
nicely without killing anything.

Pictures of the board design (not the board) are here.

You want to note the blowups at the bottom.  I've arbitrarily made all
the vias square.

http://www.dragonworks.info/Electronics/making%20PC%20boards/pc_board_design.htm
>
>What specific hammer do you use ( how small ). I am interested.
>
>You don't happen to have any photos do you ?

http://www.dragonworks.info/CAD-CAM-CNC/xyzr%20table/XYZR%20Table%20Controller.htm

Has the start, but you really want part two, assuming that part 1
makes interesting enough reading.

I can go take a couple of pictures if you need them.

Harvey


>
>Thanks

What do you use to make a white silkscreen ?

--- On Fri, 7/4/08, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

From: Harvey White <madyn@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelet press recommendation
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 7:01 PM










    
            On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:14:10 -0500, you wrote:



>>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias



>

>What do you mean "separate vias" ?



A via is used only to connect the top and bottom layers, but not at a

parts lead.  That way, I do not have to worry about the hole in the

eyelet.  

>

>>>allows me to use a small (!) ball peen hammer and a block of aluminum

>>> or steel as an anvil

>

>can you expand a bit here ? I assume the piece of steel is flat, and

>you place your PCB with

>the eyelet in place on top of it.



That's correct, rolled side down, of course.



>Then you use the hammer to form the other side of the eyelet ? Do you

>use any other tool along with

>the hammer to punch on the eyelet and form it ? or just the hammer is enough ?



The ball peen hammer is enough, I use something about 5 oz or so, and

the round end.  With a little practice, you'll swage the end over

nicely without killing anything.



Pictures of the board design (not the board) are here.



You want to note the blowups at the bottom.  I've arbitrarily made all

the vias square.



http://www.dragonwo rks.info/ Electronics/ making%20PC% 20boards/ pc_board_ design.htm

>

>What specific hammer do you use ( how small ). I am interested.

>

>You don't happen to have any photos do you ?



http://www.dragonwo rks.info/ CAD-CAM-CNC/ xyzr%20table/ XYZR%20Table% 20Controller. htm



Has the start, but you really want part two, assuming that part 1

makes interesting enough reading.



I can go take a couple of pictures if you need them.



Harvey



>

>Thanks


      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:19:39 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>What do you use to make a white silkscreen ?

It's toner transfer onto the board, then a white film available from
pulsar (www.pulsar.gs).

Avoid having the stuff over traces and it does much better.  I
recommend putting it on before hole drilling and even before trimming
the board, easier to have things to hold onto on the edges.

They have directions on the website.

Harvey

>
>--- On Fri, 7/4/08, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>From: Harvey White <madyn@...>
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelet press recommendation
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 7:01 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    
>            On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:14:10 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias
>
>
>
>>
>
>>What do you mean "separate vias" ?
>
>
>
>A via is used only to connect the top and bottom layers, but not at a
>
>parts lead.  That way, I do not have to worry about the hole in the
>
>eyelet.  
>
>>
>
>>>>allows me to use a small (!) ball peen hammer and a block of aluminum
>
>>>> or steel as an anvil
>
>>
>
>>can you expand a bit here ? I assume the piece of steel is flat, and
>
>>you place your PCB with
>
>>the eyelet in place on top of it.
>
>
>
>That's correct, rolled side down, of course.
>
>
>
>>Then you use the hammer to form the other side of the eyelet ? Do you
>
>>use any other tool along with
>
>>the hammer to punch on the eyelet and form it ? or just the hammer is enough ?
>
>
>
>The ball peen hammer is enough, I use something about 5 oz or so, and
>
>the round end.  With a little practice, you'll swage the end over
>
>nicely without killing anything.
>
>
>
>Pictures of the board design (not the board) are here.
>
>
>
>You want to note the blowups at the bottom.  I've arbitrarily made all
>
>the vias square.
>
>
>
>http://www.dragonwo rks.info/ Electronics/ making%20PC% 20boards/ pc_board_ design.htm
>
>>
>
>>What specific hammer do you use ( how small ). I am interested.
>
>>
>
>>You don't happen to have any photos do you ?
>
>
>
>http://www.dragonwo rks.info/ CAD-CAM-CNC/ xyzr%20table/ XYZR%20Table% 20Controller. htm
>
>
>
>Has the start, but you really want part two, assuming that part 1
>
>makes interesting enough reading.
>
>
>
>I can go take a couple of pictures if you need them.
>
>
>
>Harvey
>
>
>
>>
>
>>Thanks
>
>
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>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I haven't bothered in quite a few years... I ground and filed flat the tip 
of a spring-loaded centerpunch. The anvil is just whatever was suitable and 
lying about. The stationary jaw of the mini-benchvise worked pretty well.


----- Original Message ----- 

From: "perroinmaui" <gustavo@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 9:53 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelet press recommendation


> Hi,
>
> I am about to order eyelets, anvil, and forming tool from
> international eyelets.
>
> I guess I would also need an anvil press. Do you have any
> recommendations on what to get, and where ?
>
> Also, is do you think International eyelets is the way to go, or
> should I go with someone else ?
>
> NOTE: eyelets are $40 ( minimum order, not sure how many ), the anvil
> is $75, and the forming tool another $75 )

If they're simple eyelets, you might just use a small steel plate and
a transfer punch.

When I built an amplifier a bit ago, I used a transfer punch to stake
the posts, and it worked well.

--torx

Thanks for the replies.

For those of you who have used the International eyelets, which type
have you used ? ( i.e. flat, funnel or rolled flange ).
Also what type of plating. Have you used the solder plated eyelets ?
Would using those mean that after setting them I would just have to
heat them with the iron and be done with them ?

Thanks

In a message dated 7/5/2008 11:52:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
gustavo@... writes:

For  those of you who have used the International eyelets, which type
have you  used ? ( i.e. flat, funnel or rolled flange ).<<
I have used flat infrequently, but mostly rolled flange.  These should  not 
be NON-plated, as it is virtually impossible for solder to wick under the  
rolled head, when swaged tightly in a hole.  Also, the PCB should be  
solder-plated for same reason.

Also  what type of plating. Have you used the solder plated eyelets  ?<<
See above.  Gold (expensive) wick OK (I got some cheap at a "surplus"  
outlet), but "solder-plated" is best for small-quantity ("hobbiest") purposes, I  
think

Would  using those mean that after setting them I would just have to heat 
them with  the iron and be done with them ?<<
IF there is re-flowed solder-plate on the PCB, this might work, but only if  
there had been some "rosin flux" for the purpose, I suppose like is used for  
SMT, painted on before eyelets.  If you would not be applying solder-wire  at 
time of eyelet-heating, the iron-tip would become nasty and "dry" very fast,  
and leave a streaky, dirty mess about the tiny eyelet heads!  For this kind  
of "re-heat soldering" a hot-air gun might be a better idea, but decent use  
would require experience and failure until "learned"!!!




**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 11:51:47 -0500, you wrote:

>Thanks for the replies.
>
>For those of you who have used the International eyelets, which type
>have you used ? ( i.e. flat, funnel or rolled flange ).
>Also what type of plating. Have you used the solder plated eyelets ?
>Would using those mean that after setting them I would just have to
>heat them with the iron and be done with them ?

Solder plated just means that they solder a bit more easily, and go
better with tin/lead plated boards. 

I haven't had a problem with either type.

Harvey

>
>Thanks

I most definitely remember reading somewhere that a completely "dry"
iron (free of any solder) is to be used to reflow eyelets, else the
solder will close the eyelet center making it impossible to use for
component leads later.
I do not remember where exactly i read it, or which brand of eyelets, etc..

ST

On 7/5/08, JanRwl@... <JanRwl@...> wrote:
>>  Would  using those mean that after setting them I would just have to heat
>>  them with  the iron and be done with them ?<<
>
> IF there is re-flowed solder-plate on the PCB, this might work, but only if
>  there had been some "rosin flux" for the purpose, I suppose like is used for
>  SMT, painted on before eyelets.  If you would not be applying solder-wire  at
>  time of eyelet-heating, the iron-tip would become nasty and "dry" very fast,
>  and leave a streaky, dirty mess about the tiny eyelet heads!  For this kind
>  of "re-heat soldering" a hot-air gun might be a better idea, but decent use
>  would require experience and failure until "learned"!!!
>

Here is an interesting piece of related information:
A lot of years ago one major company, that I am not allowed to mention, was
eyeletting double sided PCB for best reliability since the plated through
holes sometimes were not so good in the beginning.

Originally they used simple split eyelets but then later the "improved" true
tubular eyelets with a rolled edge were implemented.  They caused a lot of
reliability problems!

When the PCBs were going over the soldering wave, the solder was properly
wicked up in the tubular eyelet and the component leads were properly
soldered but the solder did not reliably creep over the top rolled edge and
solder the eyelet to the top foil.  The old split one never had that problem
since it was partially open.

That brings the question: Why reflow the eyelets first?  Why not solder them
together with the leads in the holes?
Bertho
========================================

From:  Stefan Trethan     Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 14:54
I most definitely remember reading somewhere that a completely "dry"
iron (free of any solder) is to be used to reflow eyelets, else the
solder will close the eyelet center making it impossible to use for
component leads later.
I do not remember where exactly i read it, or which brand of eyelets, etc..

_._,___

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:14:10 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias
> 
> >
> >What do you mean "separate vias" ?
> 
> A via is used only to connect the top and bottom layers, but not at a
> parts lead.  That way, I do not have to worry about the hole in the
> eyelet.  

If you use separate vias, why bother with an eyelet? Just
insert a snipped off lead (from a resistor, or cap?) and solder
on both sides. Or am I missing something?

- GK

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:37:02 -0000, you wrote:

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:14:10 -0500, you wrote:
>> 
>> >>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias
>> 
>> >
>> >What do you mean "separate vias" ?
>> 
>> A via is used only to connect the top and bottom layers, but not at a
>> parts lead.  That way, I do not have to worry about the hole in the
>> eyelet.  
>
>If you use separate vias, why bother with an eyelet? Just
>insert a snipped off lead (from a resistor, or cap?) and solder
>on both sides. Or am I missing something?

The wires falling out of the holes.  Simple "wire through" does not
work well for me, the wire ought to be properly bent over (and is a
bit awkward to do).

Harvey

>
>- GK
>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Eyelet press recommendation


> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:37:02 -0000, you wrote:
>
>>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:14:10 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>I use eyelets (0.050 diameter), copper, and then separate vias
>>>
>>> >
>>> >What do you mean "separate vias" ?
>>>
>>> A via is used only to connect the top and bottom layers, but not at a
>>> parts lead.  That way, I do not have to worry about the hole in the
>>> eyelet.
>>
>>If you use separate vias, why bother with an eyelet? Just
>>insert a snipped off lead (from a resistor, or cap?) and solder
>>on both sides. Or am I missing something?
>
> The wires falling out of the holes.  Simple "wire through" does not
> work well for me, the wire ought to be properly bent over (and is a
> bit awkward to do).

Uninsulated bus wire is cheap (~ $20/100'). "Sew" a long length through 
several vias, solder both sides, and snip the excess; repeat. They're not 
quite flush enough to fit under an SMT footprint. If you're careful, you can 
get away with it under an SO part, but that's almost begging for trouble.

Eyelets would be useful for through hole headers, jacks, etc. anywhere the 
component side is inaccessible under the installed device. The trouble is, 
eyelets are too wide for .10" pitch, making them useless for almost 
everything, including .10" header rows. I often bring up the solder-able 
bottom trace where needed with vias. So, it begs the question: why? You 
drill and fill 2 holes where 1 should suffice. The ubiquitous 2x header rows 
are cheap and easy to keep on hand. They are superior for this reason alone. 
The alternative is keeping an assortment of SMT headers, 3x to 10x more 
expensive even counting the eyelets you can't use, and you never have the 
right size in the part box. Right angle headers work with paste and hot air, 
but are seldom what I really want. I use special bottom-pad only footprints 
for straight headers. Mechanical anchoring is compromised, but not an issue 
for long rows. For everything else, SMT works best for many reasons.