Homebrew PCBs

I didn't expect to generate so much attention to Ferric Chloride and with that living in Oregon I've been concerned with the environment so is there a environmentally safe method to etching?

Thanks for all the comments and information,

John


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Michaud <greyfox1143@...> writes:
> I didn't expect to generate so much attention to Ferric Chloride and
> with that living in Oregon I've been concerned with the environment
> so is there a environmentally safe method to etching?

I'm switching to CuCl etching for that reason - nothing to throw away,
unless you grow too much etchant.  Even then, you can precipitate out
the copper and recycle it.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/

That's what you need the HCl and H2O2 for.

DJ Delorie wrote:
> John Michaud <greyfox1143@...> writes:
>> I didn't expect to generate so much attention to Ferric Chloride and
>> with that living in Oregon I've been concerned with the environment
>> so is there a environmentally safe method to etching?
> 
> I'm switching to CuCl etching for that reason - nothing to throw away,
> unless you grow too much etchant.  Even then, you can precipitate out
> the copper and recycle it.
> 
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
> 
> That's what you need the HCl and H2O2 for.

Well Geez, i've been etching with the same tank of FeCl for 2 years.

Enviroweenies need not worry because this stuff is inorganic, just
like the naturally occuring lead, uranium, and radiation in the soil.

DJ Delorie wrote:
> John Michaud <greyfox1143@...> writes:
>> I didn't expect to generate so much attention to Ferric Chloride and
>> with that living in Oregon I've been concerned with the environment
>> so is there a environmentally safe method to etching?
> 
> I'm switching to CuCl etching for that reason - nothing to throw away,
> unless you grow too much etchant.  Even then, you can precipitate out
> the copper and recycle it.
> 
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/
> 
> That's what you need the HCl and H2O2 for.

Well Geez, i've been etching with the same tank of FeCl for 2 years.

Enviroweenies need not worry because this stuff is inorganic, just
like the naturally occuring lead, uranium, and radiation in the soil.

What's more, one of the bulk uses for FeCl is for treating sewage
to make it more "environment friendly" like.

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008, Russell Shaw wrote:
> Well Geez, i've been etching with the same tank of FeCl for 2 years.

I've been using the same batch of FeCl for over a year (and many boards)
too, it does seem to last well.

Someone told me that salt helps rejuvinate FeCl - not being a chemistry
geek I have no idea if this is right or not - is this true or is it BS?

Hi John,
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, John Michaud <greyfox1143@...> 
wrote:
>
> I didn't expect to generate so much attention to Ferric Chloride and 
with that living in Oregon I've been concerned with the environment so 
is there a environmentally safe method to etching?

Most places that recycle hazardous material (like paint and oil) will 
also take used ferric chloride.  I've been etching boards for several 
years now and still don't have enough to make it worth a trip to a 
recycler.

Regards,
Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Dylan Smith" <dyls@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives


> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008, Russell Shaw wrote:
>> Well Geez, i've been etching with the same tank of FeCl for 2 years.
>
> I've been using the same batch of FeCl for over a year (and many boards)
> too, it does seem to last well.
>
> Someone told me that salt helps rejuvinate FeCl - not being a chemistry
> geek I have no idea if this is right or not - is this true or is it BS?

I  doubt it. HCl and H2O2 works - I think that the H2O2 oxidises the ferrous 
chloride and cuprous chloride to ferric and cupric chloride, and the HCl 
provides additional Cl ions.

Leon

Yes, but doesn't that just produce CuCl contaminated with dirty FeCl
(AKA "Stain from Hell")?

ST

On 6/28/08, Leon <leon355@...> wrote:

>
> I  doubt it. HCl and H2O2 works - I think that the H2O2 oxidises the ferrous
>  chloride and cuprous chloride to ferric and cupric chloride, and the HCl
>  provides additional Cl ions.
>
>
>  Leon
>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives


> Yes, but doesn't that just produce CuCl contaminated with dirty FeCl
> (AKA "Stain from Hell")?

Yes, but they are both etchants, so the regeneration works. Do it for long 
enough and the FeCl3 will gradually disappear. 8-)

Leon

John Michaud wrote:
> I didn't expect to generate so much attention to Ferric Chloride and with that living in Oregon I've been concerned with the environment so is there a environmentally safe method to etching?
> 

It will become environmentally unsafe if you decide to dump your *spent* 
etchant in a pond full of aquatic life.
Copper are the toxic atoms here, not the iron ions, chlorides, 
persulfates, peroxide. Copper is an essential nutrient in trace amounts 
so it ok if soil concentrations are not allowed to get too high. I 
forget what the figure is. You should precipitate the salts by adding 
lime before sprinkling it on your garden.

Adam

Leon wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dylan Smith" <dyls@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 4:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives
> 
> 
>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008, Russell Shaw wrote:
>>> Well Geez, i've been etching with the same tank of FeCl for 2 years.
>> I've been using the same batch of FeCl for over a year (and many boards)
>> too, it does seem to last well.
>>
>> Someone told me that salt helps rejuvinate FeCl - not being a chemistry
>> geek I have no idea if this is right or not - is this true or is it BS?
> 
> I  doubt it. HCl and H2O2 works - I think that the H2O2 oxidises the ferrous 
> chloride and cuprous chloride to ferric and cupric chloride, and the HCl 
> provides additional Cl ions.

Every few weeks when i use it, i top it up with HCl. It's a bubble
etcher, so maybe the air has some kind of regeneration.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Russell Shaw" <rjshaw@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives


> Every few weeks when i use it, i top it up with HCl. It's a bubble
> etcher, so maybe the air has some kind of regeneration.

I think that would be the case.

I do that with my manual agitation technique, and add a little H2O2 if I 
have it.

Leon

If you "revigorate" it with a slug of HCl after etching a board or two, over time the Fe will oxidise and settle as insoluble FeO. Then just decant it. That's how I quite unintentionally converted from FeCl to CuCl. Didn't dawn on me until I started looking at the chemistries involved.

--- On Sat, 6/28/08, Leon <leon355@...> wrote:

From: Leon <leon355@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 3:02 PM










    
            ----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@ gmx.at>

To: <Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com>

Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:59 PM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives



> Yes, but doesn't that just produce CuCl contaminated with dirty FeCl

> (AKA "Stain from Hell")?



Yes, but they are both etchants, so the regeneration works. Do it for long 

enough and the FeCl3 will gradually disappear. 8-)



Leon




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "YD" <yd_br@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ferric Chloride - Alternatives


> Here are a couple of webpages giving a bit more detail on the reactions:
> http://artmondo.net/printworks/articles/ferric.htm
> http://www.p-m-services.co.uk/ferric_chloride.htm

All I could see is that HCl removes the sludge. Adding ammonia precipitates 
the iron hydroxide, not HCl.

Leon