Homebrew PCBs

I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist for myself, but won't have 
much need for two 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if there 
would be a market to sell it in small quantities , say 2 to 20 meter 
lengths. I'm located in Australia and I'd charge for my time repackaging.

Hi Adam
I have just started out with PCBs.
I live in Sydney, Australia.
I would be interested in obtaining a small amount.
Since reading all your helpful info on the subject, I was thinking of 
using your methods, but had no idea where to get the film resist.

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> 
wrote:
>
> I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist for myself, but won't 
have 
> much need for two 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if there 
> would be a market to sell it in small quantities , say 2 to 20 meter 
> lengths. I'm located in Australia and I'd charge for my time 
repackaging.
>

Been there and doing that right now. 

Since I tried this I have had a total of 26 orders since my first
order on January 26.  The first 100 foot roll went pretty quick so I
thought why not buy the 500 foot roll and add some soldermask as well. 

Out of 600 feet of resist and 80 feet of soldermask initially
purchased, I have sold about 120 feet of resist and 23 feet of
soldermask. At the current rate I will be very lucky if I even make
back the original cost before the end of the year which is my cutoff
for the age of the material.

So there are people who will buy it and be very appreciative to get it
in small quantities, but it seems to be a very very small market. So
unless you are a much better marketer than me, selling 1000 feet of
resist to hobbyist IMHO is very optimistic. 

You will probably also want to compare your price to what a place like
Think Tink is offering to make sure you are offering a reasonable
price for the quantity.

Obviously there is some conflict of interest since I am selling
photoresist as well, so it may sound like I am trying to discourage
you. All I am trying to do is let you know what my personal experience
has been so far.  I wish you the best of luck if you decide the press
on with your idea. As I said, you may be a better salesman than me.


Damon Brantley
www.pcbhobbyist.com



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
wrote:
>
> I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist for myself, but won't
have 
> much need for two 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if there 
> would be a market to sell it in small quantities , say 2 to 20 meter 
> lengths. I'm located in Australia and I'd charge for my time
repackaging.
>

> Adam Seychell wrote:
>
> I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist
> for myself, but won't have much need for two
> 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if
> there would be a market to sell it in small
> quantities , say 2 to 20 meter lengths. I'm
> located in Australia and I'd charge for my
> time repackaging.
>

Adam,

I am more than happy to go halvesies and take a roll.

Also would be keen to go halvesies on soldermask if
you are keen to buy some of that too.

Hi Damon

Thanks for your advice. I had absolutely no idea of the market size. 
Since I live in Australia with population 1/15 of USA (I assume you are 
located in USA and most orders were local) then there won't be much hope 
selling 1000 ft of the stuff.

I was going to offer sell some of the equipment to apply it using low 
cost wet lamination method. I guess people need to know its not 
necessarily difficult nor expensive to apply. A kind of photoresist 
'kit' so its minimum fuss and opens up available market. But by what 
your describing, I'd still be hard pressed selling my first roll.

I.m wondering how can you sell US$25 to international customers when 
that almost the cost of shipping ?

ThinkTink sell it
$1.7/ft (50 ft roll)
$1.02/ft (100 ft roll)
$0.65/ft (500 ft roll)
$0.60/ft (2x500 ft rolls)

IMHO that's a tad pricey for most hobbyists.


javaguy11111 wrote:

> Been there and doing that right now. 
> 
> Since I tried this I have had a total of 26 orders since my first
> order on January 26.  The first 100 foot roll went pretty quick so I
> thought why not buy the 500 foot roll and add some soldermask as well. 
> 
> Out of 600 feet of resist and 80 feet of soldermask initially
> purchased, I have sold about 120 feet of resist and 23 feet of
> soldermask. At the current rate I will be very lucky if I even make
> back the original cost before the end of the year which is my cutoff
> for the age of the material.
> 
> So there are people who will buy it and be very appreciative to get it
> in small quantities, but it seems to be a very very small market. So
> unless you are a much better marketer than me, selling 1000 feet of
> resist to hobbyist IMHO is very optimistic. 
> 
> You will probably also want to compare your price to what a place like
> Think Tink is offering to make sure you are offering a reasonable
> price for the quantity.
> 
> Obviously there is some conflict of interest since I am selling
> photoresist as well, so it may sound like I am trying to discourage
> you. All I am trying to do is let you know what my personal experience
> has been so far.  I wish you the best of luck if you decide the press
> on with your idea. As I said, you may be a better salesman than me.
> 
> 
> Damon Brantley
> www.pcbhobbyist.com
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
> wrote:
>> I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist for myself, but won't
> have 
>> much need for two 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if there 
>> would be a market to sell it in small quantities , say 2 to 20 meter 
>> lengths. I'm located in Australia and I'd charge for my time
> repackaging.
> 
> 
>

Yes, I am in the US. I send by standard postal service. The extra 5
dollars pretty much covers the extra cost of shipping and filling out
customs forms. I have shipped 3 orders to Australia and one to New
Zealand. If no news is good news, I assume those orders arrived in
good condition.

The biggest problem with the photoresist is the limited shelf life.
There is a  time constraint to move the inventory. 

If you have the idea to sell something pcb related that does not have
a shelf life, I would not let the limited market stop  you. There are
probably people out there that would buy your products. It just may
not be enough to let you quit your day job.  :-) 

 However if you do find something to sell it could potentially offset
the cost of your hobby.  Assuming you can make back the initial
investment. 


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Damon
> 
> Thanks for your advice. I had absolutely no idea of the market size. 
> Since I live in Australia with population 1/15 of USA (I assume you are 
> located in USA and most orders were local) then there won't be much
hope 
> selling 1000 ft of the stuff.
> 
> I was going to offer sell some of the equipment to apply it using low 
> cost wet lamination method. I guess people need to know its not 
> necessarily difficult nor expensive to apply. A kind of photoresist 
> 'kit' so its minimum fuss and opens up available market. But by what 
> your describing, I'd still be hard pressed selling my first roll.
> 
> I.m wondering how can you sell US$25 to international customers when 
> that almost the cost of shipping ?
> 
> ThinkTink sell it
> $1.7/ft (50 ft roll)
> $1.02/ft (100 ft roll)
> $0.65/ft (500 ft roll)
> $0.60/ft (2x500 ft rolls)
> 
> IMHO that's a tad pricey for most hobbyists.
> 
> 
> javaguy11111 wrote:
> > Been there and doing that right now. 
> > 
> > Since I tried this I have had a total of 26 orders since my first
> > order on January 26.  The first 100 foot roll went pretty quick so I
> > thought why not buy the 500 foot roll and add some soldermask as
well. 

> > 
> > Out of 600 feet of resist and 80 feet of soldermask initially
> > purchased, I have sold about 120 feet of resist and 23 feet of
> > soldermask. At the current rate I will be very lucky if I even make
> > back the original cost before the end of the year which is my cutoff
> > for the age of the material.
> > 
> > So there are people who will buy it and be very appreciative to get it
> > in small quantities, but it seems to be a very very small market. So
> > unless you are a much better marketer than me, selling 1000 feet of
> > resist to hobbyist IMHO is very optimistic. 
> > 
> > You will probably also want to compare your price to what a place like
> > Think Tink is offering to make sure you are offering a reasonable
> > price for the quantity.
> > 
> > Obviously there is some conflict of interest since I am selling
> > photoresist as well, so it may sound like I am trying to discourage
> > you. All I am trying to do is let you know what my personal experience
> > has been so far.  I wish you the best of luck if you decide the press
> > on with your idea. As I said, you may be a better salesman than me.
> > 
> > 
> > Damon Brantley
> > www.pcbhobbyist.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@>
> > wrote:
> >> I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist for myself, but won't
> > have 
> >> much need for two 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if there 
> >> would be a market to sell it in small quantities , say 2 to 20 meter 
> >> lengths. I'm located in Australia and I'd charge for my time
> > repackaging.
> > 
> > 
> >
>

javaguy11111 wrote:

> The biggest problem with the photoresist is the limited shelf life.
> There is a  time constraint to move the inventory. 

Interesting. I have not noticed any degradation over the 4 years I've 
owned my dry film negative active photoresist. I keep my dry film roll 
permanently stored at room temperature in a varnished wooden box fitted 
with a hinged lid and foam seal. It could have water or other solvent 
that evaporates and cause problems. There is a small odour when I open 
the box, so something is escaping, but its obviously insignificant.

Of course this doesn't mean photoresists have infinite shelf life. Some 
just may be longer than others. I suppose storing it in a fridge would 
extend it.

Adam

I am just going off the spec sheets for shelf life. I am not sure what
happens as the resist starts getting old.  I am sure the resist does
not instantly fail to work after a year, but it may become more
difficult to work with. It may not expose as well or may not develop
as easily.

I do not want to be selling something to people that may not perform
as expected. That is why I do not plan to sell the resist after I have
had it for a year.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
wrote:

>
> javaguy11111 wrote:
> 
> > The biggest problem with the photoresist is the limited shelf life.
> > There is a  time constraint to move the inventory. 
> 
> Interesting. I have not noticed any degradation over the 4 years I've 
> owned my dry film negative active photoresist. I keep my dry film roll 
> permanently stored at room temperature in a varnished wooden box fitted 
> with a hinged lid and foam seal. It could have water or other solvent 
> that evaporates and cause problems. There is a small odour when I open 
> the box, so something is escaping, but its obviously insignificant.
> 
> Of course this doesn't mean photoresists have infinite shelf life. Some 
> just may be longer than others. I suppose storing it in a fridge would 
> extend it.
> 
> Adam
>

javaguy11111 wrote:
> I am just going off the spec sheets for shelf life. I am not sure what
> happens as the resist starts getting old.  I am sure the resist does
> not instantly fail to work after a year, but it may become more
> difficult to work with. It may not expose as well or may not develop
> as easily.
> 
> I do not want to be selling something to people that may not perform
> as expected. That is why I do not plan to sell the resist after I have
> had it for a year.

Test it yourself every 6 months. Problem solved.

I'm one of the Aussie orderers, and received my photoresist in double 
quick time.  No problems with dealing with JavaGuy - happy to recommend 
him to you.

Trev

javaguy11111 wrote:

> Yes, I am in the US. I send by standard postal service. The extra 5
> dollars pretty much covers the extra cost of shipping and filling out
> customs forms. I have shipped 3 orders to Australia and one to New
> Zealand. If no news is good news, I assume those orders arrived in
> good condition.
>
> The biggest problem with the photoresist is the limited shelf life.
> There is a time constraint to move the inventory.
>
> If you have the idea to sell something pcb related that does not have
> a shelf life, I would not let the limited market stop you. There are
> probably people out there that would buy your products. It just may
> not be enough to let you quit your day job. :-)
>
> However if you do find something to sell it could potentially offset
> the cost of your hobby. Assuming you can make back the initial
> investment.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Damon
> >
> > Thanks for your advice. I had absolutely no idea of the market size.
> > Since I live in Australia with population 1/15 of USA (I assume you are
> > located in USA and most orders were local) then there won't be much
> hope
> > selling 1000 ft of the stuff.
> >
> > I was going to offer sell some of the equipment to apply it using low
> > cost wet lamination method. I guess people need to know its not
> > necessarily difficult nor expensive to apply. A kind of photoresist
> > 'kit' so its minimum fuss and opens up available market. But by what
> > your describing, I'd still be hard pressed selling my first roll.
> >
> > I.m wondering how can you sell US$25 to international customers when
> > that almost the cost of shipping ?
> >
> > ThinkTink sell it
> > $1.7/ft (50 ft roll)
> > $1.02/ft (100 ft roll)
> > $0.65/ft (500 ft roll)
> > $0.60/ft (2x500 ft rolls)
> >
> > IMHO that's a tad pricey for most hobbyists.
> >
> >
> > javaguy11111 wrote:
> > > Been there and doing that right now.
> > >
> > > Since I tried this I have had a total of 26 orders since my first
> > > order on January 26. The first 100 foot roll went pretty quick so I
> > > thought why not buy the 500 foot roll and add some soldermask as
> well.
> > >
> > > Out of 600 feet of resist and 80 feet of soldermask initially
> > > purchased, I have sold about 120 feet of resist and 23 feet of
> > > soldermask. At the current rate I will be very lucky if I even make
> > > back the original cost before the end of the year which is my cutoff
> > > for the age of the material.
> > >
> > > So there are people who will buy it and be very appreciative to get it
> > > in small quantities, but it seems to be a very very small market. So
> > > unless you are a much better marketer than me, selling 1000 feet of
> > > resist to hobbyist IMHO is very optimistic.
> > >
> > > You will probably also want to compare your price to what a place like
> > > Think Tink is offering to make sure you are offering a reasonable
> > > price for the quantity.
> > >
> > > Obviously there is some conflict of interest since I am selling
> > > photoresist as well, so it may sound like I am trying to discourage
> > > you. All I am trying to do is let you know what my personal experience
> > > has been so far. I wish you the best of luck if you decide the press
> > > on with your idea. As I said, you may be a better salesman than me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Damon Brantley
> > > www.pcbhobbyist.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@>
> > > wrote:
> > >> I was thinking of buying a box of photoresist for myself, but won't
> > > have
> > >> much need for two 500 foot x 12" wide roles. So I'm curious if there
> > >> would be a market to sell it in small quantities , say 2 to 20 meter
> > >> lengths. I'm located in Australia and I'd charge for my time
> > > repackaging.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I am just going off the spec sheets for shelf life. I am not sure what
>happens as the resist starts getting old.

     As I understand it (I think from someone mentioning it here), the 
film will go bad from the edges in - oxidation or something and the edges 
being the unprotected bit. Potentially disastrous for a company using 
it's full width in a double roll laminator in a production setting, but 
mostly just an annoyance for hobbyist types. However, I sell things for a 
living and I completely understand your concerns.

Russel has a good point - test it every so often. I'm not sure what to 
look for though, hardening? Poor adhesion? Loss of photosensitivity? A 
color change along the edges and separation of the cover sheets at the 
edges would probably indicate failure in those areas, and should cast 
suspicion on the areas farther toward the center. Information on this 
would be useful to those of us with more than a small supply of the stuff.

-Gary

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "garydeal" <garydeal@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:10 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: hobby market for dry film photoresist ?


> Here's a related question:
>
> Has anyone dissolved dry film resist in a solvent and then used it to
> coat a board? And if so, success? Failure? Something in between?
>
> Why make it a liquid, it's "dry" film (you might ask)? - In order to get
> a thinner film and make it possible to get finer detail, and to maybe
> increase it's shelf life.

Why not just buy some liquid resist? It's fairly easy to apply using spin 
coating, if a bit messy.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign  G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND transceiver
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

Here's a related question:

Has anyone dissolved dry film resist in a solvent and then used it to 
coat a board? And if so, success? Failure? Something in between?

Why make it a liquid, it's "dry" film (you might ask)? - In order to get 
a thinner film and make it possible to get finer detail, and to maybe 
increase it's shelf life.

     -Gary

--- On Tue, 6/10/08, Leon <leon355@...> wrote:
> Why not just buy some liquid resist? It's fairly easy
> to apply using spin 
> coating, if a bit messy.
> 

just about the original subject:
what about 'hobby market liquid resist'?
where? how much? who?

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Herbert E. Plett" <cachureos@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] hobby market for dry film photoresist ?


> --- On Tue, 6/10/08, Leon <leon355@...> wrote:
>> Why not just buy some liquid resist? It's fairly easy
>> to apply using spin 
>> coating, if a bit messy.
>> 
> 
> just about the original subject:
> what about 'hobby market liquid resist'?
> where? how much? who?

You can buy it in applicator:

http://www.megauk.com/pcb_chemicals.php

It's difficult to buy in small quantities in containers.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller