Yahoo Groups archive

Homebrew PCBs

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:05 UTC

Thread

UV LED Test

UV LED Test

2008-03-01 by javaguy11111

I just did a quick test with my UV LEDs using a step pattern going
from 10/10 spacing down to 1/1 spacing in thousands of an inch. This
test pattern was printed by an Epson 2400 printer using Pictorico
transparency.

The leds were 1 1/4 inches above the board with a .5 inch spacing. I
tested with 4 LED's running 2 in series and then 2 of those in
parallel running 20ma at 6.6V. 
Exposure time was 60 seconds. 

After developing in sodium carbonate, I got good lines down to  3/3
spacing. The 2/2 looked pretty good as well, but was a bit jagged.
Possibly due to the 1440 dpi resolution of the printer. The 1/1 lines
were all merged together. 

I will try 3/4 inch and 1 inch spacing over the weekend to see how
those work, before I commit to a spacing. I will post the results of
those tests as well.

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-03 by javaguy11111

I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.

The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1 left some
areas okay, but other areas underexposed.

I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45 seconds
as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the LEDs.

So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use to get
uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the distance to 2
inches above the board to see how that works.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
<javaguy11111@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I just did a quick test with my UV LEDs using a step pattern going
> from 10/10 spacing down to 1/1 spacing in thousands of an inch. This
> test pattern was printed by an Epson 2400 printer using Pictorico
> transparency.
> 
> The leds were 1 1/4 inches above the board with a .5 inch spacing. I
> tested with 4 LED's running 2 in series and then 2 of those in
> parallel running 20ma at 6.6V. 
> Exposure time was 60 seconds. 
> 
> After developing in sodium carbonate, I got good lines down to  3/3
> spacing. The 2/2 looked pretty good as well, but was a bit jagged.
> Possibly due to the 1440 dpi resolution of the printer. The 1/1 lines
> were all merged together. 
> 
> I will try 3/4 inch and 1 inch spacing over the weekend to see how
> those work, before I commit to a spacing. I will post the results of
> those tests as well.
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-03 by Leon

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "javaguy11111" <javaguy11111@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:12 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test


>I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
> plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
> external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
> spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.
>
> The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
> variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
> areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
> minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1 left some
> areas okay, but other areas underexposed.
>
> I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
> above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
> exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45 seconds
> as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the LEDs.
>
> So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use to get
> uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the distance to 2
> inches above the board to see how that works.

From the light distribution in the data sheet, it should be possible to 
calculate the optimum spacing for a given distance.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign  G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND transceiver
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-03 by javaguy11111

The half angle is 10 degrees which is the half power point according
to the data sheet from Best Hong Kong. So if I want the two LEDs half
power point to fall halfway between them, that would be .25 inches. A
little trig gives me that the LEDs should be 1.4 inches  above the board. 

So I am pretty close to what a calculation will show. Of course 1.25
was just a guess, not a calculation. 


 
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Leon" <leon355@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "javaguy11111" <javaguy11111@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:12 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test
> 
> 
> >I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
> > plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
> > external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
> > spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.
> >
> > The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
> > variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
> > areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
> > minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1 left some
> > areas okay, but other areas underexposed.
> >
> > I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
> > above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
> > exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45 seconds
> > as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the
LEDs.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >
> > So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use to get
> > uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the distance to 2
> > inches above the board to see how that works.
> 
> From the light distribution in the data sheet, it should be possible to 
> calculate the optimum spacing for a given distance.
> 
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller
> Amateur radio call-sign  G1HSM
> Yaesu FT-817ND transceiver
> Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
> leon355@...
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-04 by Adam Seychell

I also got the 390-395nm BestHongKong LEDs. To test the exposure time I 
made a 3x3 square array as you did, but with 15mm pitch, not 13mm. To 
look for uniformity, just shine on some white paper and see how much 
variation there is on the reflection. I found an LED pitch of 15mm gave 
fairly uniform projection at 100mm or more. A 30mm distance as you are 
talking about looked way too non-uniform to my liking.
There is no big penalty going further distance, except the edges of the 
projected light will tapper off more slowly the further distance away. 
All this means is your array will need 1 to 4 LEDs in size larger than 
PCB artwork area to compensate for tapering intensity. Remember an 
infinite LED array has constant intensity at all distances. So, it beats 
me why your trying to get the LEDs close as possible.

The best way to test exposure times is to expose without any image 
printed on the photomask. Then expose small sections at incrementing 
times. I did this by cutting strips of photoresist film about 100 x 20mm 
, and drawing 4 lines equally spaced across the strip to give 5 squares. 
I used some black plastic to mask out all but one square and exposed 
this area for a recorded time. Exposing in small steps, e.g 
10,20,30,40,50 seconds, you can get very good estimation of time it 
takes to fully expose photoresist. After development you will see the 
squares which are slightly underexposed will look different (more 
damaged or loss of smoothness) than those 100% exposed.

Only after doing that you should test artwork, because now you know what 
the minimum exposure time is.

javaguy11111 wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
> plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
> external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
> spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.
> 
> The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
> variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
> areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
> minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1 left some
> areas okay, but other areas underexposed.
> 
> I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
> above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
> exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45 seconds
> as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the LEDs.
> 
> So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use to get
> uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the distance to 2
> inches above the board to see how that works.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> <javaguy11111@...> wrote:
>> I just did a quick test with my UV LEDs using a step pattern going
>> from 10/10 spacing down to 1/1 spacing in thousands of an inch. This
>> test pattern was printed by an Epson 2400 printer using Pictorico
>> transparency.
>>
>> The leds were 1 1/4 inches above the board with a .5 inch spacing. I
>> tested with 4 LED's running 2 in series and then 2 of those in
>> parallel running 20ma at 6.6V. 
>> Exposure time was 60 seconds. 
>>
>> After developing in sodium carbonate, I got good lines down to  3/3
>> spacing. The 2/2 looked pretty good as well, but was a bit jagged.
>> Possibly due to the 1440 dpi resolution of the printer. The 1/1 lines
>> were all merged together. 
>>
>> I will try 3/4 inch and 1 inch spacing over the weekend to see how
>> those work, before I commit to a spacing. I will post the results of
>> those tests as well.
>>
> 
> 
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-04 by DJ Delorie

Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> writes:
> There is no big penalty going further distance, except the edges of the 
> projected light will tapper off more slowly the further distance away. 

What if you built your exposure box with mirrors on the sides?  It
would appear to the pcb like an infinite grid of LEDs.

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-04 by javaguy11111

I am using the 395-400nm LEDs. Since there is a strong UV component to
the LEDs I am not sure if a visual test for uniformity is going to be
accurate. 
Since I am working in english units obvious I am working around 12.7
mm or .5 inch. Not a big difference. 
To really measure exposure I need stouffer gauge. I may go ahead and
order one from Think Tink at some point.
As far as distances, the further away the longer it takes. So
initially I will be going for 1.25 to 1.5 inches. Based on my
calculations from yesterday in another message it looks like 1.42
inches is the distance I want so that the half power points sum up
properly. Since these point sources and not infinitely sized, the
illumination will never be perfectly uniform.

My design at this point is leaning towards a 4x6 board, which with .5
inch spacing will use 96 LEDs. I will also get the board sized so that
I can add more if I need a larger size, but my largest board to date
is 2.5 by 3.5 inches. 

I am looking into also using LT3591 boost regulator for driving the
LEDs. Obviously it will take several of these to drive all 96 LEDs,
but I do not like the idea of current limiting resistors or just
putting them all in parallel. 




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
wrote:
>
> I also got the 390-395nm BestHongKong LEDs. To test the exposure time I 
> made a 3x3 square array as you did, but with 15mm pitch, not 13mm. To 
> look for uniformity, just shine on some white paper and see how much 
> variation there is on the reflection. I found an LED pitch of 15mm gave 
> fairly uniform projection at 100mm or more. A 30mm distance as you are 
> talking about looked way too non-uniform to my liking.
> There is no big penalty going further distance, except the edges of the 
> projected light will tapper off more slowly the further distance away. 
> All this means is your array will need 1 to 4 LEDs in size larger than 
> PCB artwork area to compensate for tapering intensity. Remember an 
> infinite LED array has constant intensity at all distances. So, it
beats 
> me why your trying to get the LEDs close as possible.
> 
> The best way to test exposure times is to expose without any image 
> printed on the photomask. Then expose small sections at incrementing 
> times. I did this by cutting strips of photoresist film about 100 x
20mm 
> , and drawing 4 lines equally spaced across the strip to give 5
squares. 
> I used some black plastic to mask out all but one square and exposed 
> this area for a recorded time. Exposing in small steps, e.g 
> 10,20,30,40,50 seconds, you can get very good estimation of time it 
> takes to fully expose photoresist. After development you will see the 
> squares which are slightly underexposed will look different (more 
> damaged or loss of smoothness) than those 100% exposed.
> 
> Only after doing that you should test artwork, because now you know
what 
> the minimum exposure time is.
> 
> javaguy11111 wrote:
> > I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
> > plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
> > external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
> > spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.
> > 
> > The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
> > variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
> > areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
> > minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1 left some
> > areas okay, but other areas underexposed.
> > 
> > I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
> > above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
> > exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45 seconds
> > as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the
LEDs.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 
> > So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use to get
> > uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the distance to 2
> > inches above the board to see how that works.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> > <javaguy11111@> wrote:
> >> I just did a quick test with my UV LEDs using a step pattern going
> >> from 10/10 spacing down to 1/1 spacing in thousands of an inch. This
> >> test pattern was printed by an Epson 2400 printer using Pictorico
> >> transparency.
> >>
> >> The leds were 1 1/4 inches above the board with a .5 inch spacing. I
> >> tested with 4 LED's running 2 in series and then 2 of those in
> >> parallel running 20ma at 6.6V. 
> >> Exposure time was 60 seconds. 
> >>
> >> After developing in sodium carbonate, I got good lines down to  3/3
> >> spacing. The 2/2 looked pretty good as well, but was a bit jagged.
> >> Possibly due to the 1440 dpi resolution of the printer. The 1/1 lines
> >> were all merged together. 
> >>
> >> I will try 3/4 inch and 1 inch spacing over the weekend to see how
> >> those work, before I commit to a spacing. I will post the results of
> >> those tests as well.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-04 by javaguy11111

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...> writes:
> > There is no big penalty going further distance, except the edges
of the 
> > projected light will tapper off more slowly the further distance
away. 
> 
> What if you built your exposure box with mirrors on the sides?  It
> would appear to the pcb like an infinite grid of LEDs.
>

I think all the mirrors would do is reflect the light that is at a
high angle of incidence and cause broader lines. Light at lower angles
would never get a chance to be reflected.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-05 by Adam Seychell

Damon,
If you do the maths, you'll find that intensity for an infinite array of 
infinitesimal small point sources gives constant light intensity at all 
distances. In other words, your light array does NOT follow a 1/r^2 law. 
If I were you I'll move it back to at least 2" so that light blends from 
adjacent LEDs.

These UV LEDs are narrow band, so its unlikely you will see reflected 
light at other frequencies obfuscating true UV intensity.

Can you explain why the fluorescence from white paper will produce an 
inaccurate intensity image projected from the UV light source ?

For the power supply, I've built one based on a LM3488, but you can 
probably configure any boost converter IC as constant current source. 
input is 8 to 20VDC, output 35V @ 400mA constant current, and is capable 
of driving 25 strings of 10 LEDs in series for total of 250 LEDs. I'll 
send you schematics if interested.
The LED array is based on National's app. note.

http://www.national.com/appinfo/power/ledrefdesign/LM26988x4LEDArrayDriver.pdf 



javaguy11111 wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I am using the 395-400nm LEDs. Since there is a strong UV component to
> the LEDs I am not sure if a visual test for uniformity is going to be
> accurate. 
> Since I am working in english units obvious I am working around 12.7
> mm or .5 inch. Not a big difference. 
> To really measure exposure I need stouffer gauge. I may go ahead and
> order one from Think Tink at some point.
> As far as distances, the further away the longer it takes. So
> initially I will be going for 1.25 to 1.5 inches. Based on my
> calculations from yesterday in another message it looks like 1.42
> inches is the distance I want so that the half power points sum up
> properly. Since these point sources and not infinitely sized, the
> illumination will never be perfectly uniform.
> 
> My design at this point is leaning towards a 4x6 board, which with .5
> inch spacing will use 96 LEDs. I will also get the board sized so that
> I can add more if I need a larger size, but my largest board to date
> is 2.5 by 3.5 inches. 
> 
> I am looking into also using LT3591 boost regulator for driving the
> LEDs. Obviously it will take several of these to drive all 96 LEDs,
> but I do not like the idea of current limiting resistors or just
> putting them all in parallel. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
> wrote:
>> I also got the 390-395nm BestHongKong LEDs. To test the exposure time I 
>> made a 3x3 square array as you did, but with 15mm pitch, not 13mm. To 
>> look for uniformity, just shine on some white paper and see how much 
>> variation there is on the reflection. I found an LED pitch of 15mm gave 
>> fairly uniform projection at 100mm or more. A 30mm distance as you are 
>> talking about looked way too non-uniform to my liking.
>> There is no big penalty going further distance, except the edges of the 
>> projected light will tapper off more slowly the further distance away. 
>> All this means is your array will need 1 to 4 LEDs in size larger than 
>> PCB artwork area to compensate for tapering intensity. Remember an 
>> infinite LED array has constant intensity at all distances. So, it
> beats 
>> me why your trying to get the LEDs close as possible.
>>
>> The best way to test exposure times is to expose without any image 
>> printed on the photomask. Then expose small sections at incrementing 
>> times. I did this by cutting strips of photoresist film about 100 x
> 20mm 
>> , and drawing 4 lines equally spaced across the strip to give 5
> squares. 
>> I used some black plastic to mask out all but one square and exposed 
>> this area for a recorded time. Exposing in small steps, e.g 
>> 10,20,30,40,50 seconds, you can get very good estimation of time it 
>> takes to fully expose photoresist. After development you will see the 
>> squares which are slightly underexposed will look different (more 
>> damaged or loss of smoothness) than those 100% exposed.
>>
>> Only after doing that you should test artwork, because now you know
> what 
>> the minimum exposure time is.
>>
>> javaguy11111 wrote:
>>> I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
>>> plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
>>> external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
>>> spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.
>>>
>>> The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
>>> variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
>>> areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
>>> minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1 left some
>>> areas okay, but other areas underexposed.
>>>
>>> I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
>>> above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
>>> exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45 seconds
>>> as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the
> LEDs.
>>> So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use to get
>>> uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the distance to 2
>>> inches above the board to see how that works.
>>>
>>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
>>> <javaguy11111@> wrote:
>>>> I just did a quick test with my UV LEDs using a step pattern going
>>>> from 10/10 spacing down to 1/1 spacing in thousands of an inch. This
>>>> test pattern was printed by an Epson 2400 printer using Pictorico
>>>> transparency.
>>>>
>>>> The leds were 1 1/4 inches above the board with a .5 inch spacing. I
>>>> tested with 4 LED's running 2 in series and then 2 of those in
>>>> parallel running 20ma at 6.6V. 
>>>> Exposure time was 60 seconds. 
>>>>
>>>> After developing in sodium carbonate, I got good lines down to  3/3
>>>> spacing. The 2/2 looked pretty good as well, but was a bit jagged.
>>>> Possibly due to the 1440 dpi resolution of the printer. The 1/1 lines
>>>> were all merged together. 
>>>>
>>>> I will try 3/4 inch and 1 inch spacing over the weekend to see how
>>>> those work, before I commit to a spacing. I will post the results of
>>>> those tests as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
>

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-05 by javaguy11111

The distance from the board is easily adjusted. If it needs 2 inches
fine. If it needs 1.42, that is fine to.

Thanks for the pointer to the pdf. I will take a look at it.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@...>
wrote:
>
> Damon,
> If you do the maths, you'll find that intensity for an infinite
array of 
> infinitesimal small point sources gives constant light intensity at all 
> distances. In other words, your light array does NOT follow a 1/r^2
law. 
> If I were you I'll move it back to at least 2" so that light blends
from 
> adjacent LEDs.
> 
> These UV LEDs are narrow band, so its unlikely you will see reflected 
> light at other frequencies obfuscating true UV intensity.
> 
> Can you explain why the fluorescence from white paper will produce an 
> inaccurate intensity image projected from the UV light source ?
> 
> For the power supply, I've built one based on a LM3488, but you can 
> probably configure any boost converter IC as constant current source. 
> input is 8 to 20VDC, output 35V @ 400mA constant current, and is
capable 
> of driving 25 strings of 10 LEDs in series for total of 250 LEDs. I'll 
> send you schematics if interested.
> The LED array is based on National's app. note.
> 
>
http://www.national.com/appinfo/power/ledrefdesign/LM26988x4LEDArrayDriver.pdf

> 
> 
> 
> javaguy11111 wrote:
> > I am using the 395-400nm LEDs. Since there is a strong UV component to
> > the LEDs I am not sure if a visual test for uniformity is going to be
> > accurate. 
> > Since I am working in english units obvious I am working around 12.7
> > mm or .5 inch. Not a big difference. 
> > To really measure exposure I need stouffer gauge. I may go ahead and
> > order one from Think Tink at some point.
> > As far as distances, the further away the longer it takes. So
> > initially I will be going for 1.25 to 1.5 inches. Based on my
> > calculations from yesterday in another message it looks like 1.42
> > inches is the distance I want so that the half power points sum up
> > properly. Since these point sources and not infinitely sized, the
> > illumination will never be perfectly uniform.
> > 
> > My design at this point is leaning towards a 4x6 board, which with .5
> > inch spacing will use 96 LEDs. I will also get the board sized so that
> > I can add more if I need a larger size, but my largest board to date
> > is 2.5 by 3.5 inches. 
> > 
> > I am looking into also using LT3591 boost regulator for driving the
> > LEDs. Obviously it will take several of these to drive all 96 LEDs,
> > but I do not like the idea of current limiting resistors or just
> > putting them all in parallel. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <a_seychell@>
> > wrote:
> >> I also got the 390-395nm BestHongKong LEDs. To test the exposure
time I 
> >> made a 3x3 square array as you did, but with 15mm pitch, not
13mm. To 
> >> look for uniformity, just shine on some white paper and see how much 
> >> variation there is on the reflection. I found an LED pitch of
15mm gave 
> >> fairly uniform projection at 100mm or more. A 30mm distance as
you are 
> >> talking about looked way too non-uniform to my liking.
> >> There is no big penalty going further distance, except the edges
of the 
> >> projected light will tapper off more slowly the further distance
away. 
> >> All this means is your array will need 1 to 4 LEDs in size larger
than 
> >> PCB artwork area to compensate for tapering intensity. Remember an 
> >> infinite LED array has constant intensity at all distances. So, it
> > beats 
> >> me why your trying to get the LEDs close as possible.
> >>
> >> The best way to test exposure times is to expose without any image 
> >> printed on the photomask. Then expose small sections at incrementing 
> >> times. I did this by cutting strips of photoresist film about 100 x
> > 20mm 
> >> , and drawing 4 lines equally spaced across the strip to give 5
> > squares. 
> >> I used some black plastic to mask out all but one square and exposed 
> >> this area for a recorded time. Exposing in small steps, e.g 
> >> 10,20,30,40,50 seconds, you can get very good estimation of time it 
> >> takes to fully expose photoresist. After development you will see
the 
> >> squares which are slightly underexposed will look different (more 
> >> damaged or loss of smoothness) than those 100% exposed.
> >>
> >> Only after doing that you should test artwork, because now you know
> > what 
> >> the minimum exposure time is.
> >>
> >> javaguy11111 wrote:
> >>> I did a little more testing of UV LEDs this weekend. The LEDs are
> >>> plugged into a solderless breadboard and driven with a variable
> >>> external power supply I tried a 3x3 grid with 1 inch and .5 inch
> >>> spacing. The LEDs were run at 20mA and pulled about 10V.
> >>>
> >>> The 1 inch spacing at 1.25 inches above the board showed too much
> >>> variation in exposure. I would get areas of overexposure while other
> >>> areas would not get enough exposure. I tried times of 1,5 and 10
> >>> minutes. 10 minutes was way over exposed, 5 not so bad and 1
left some
> >>> areas okay, but other areas underexposed.
> >>>
> >>> I then did tests with .5 inch spacing with the LEDs at 1.25 inches
> >>> above the board. Uniformity of exposure was much better. I tried an
> >>> exposure time of 1 minute. I think I can drop that down to 45
seconds
> >>> as I still saw a little extra exposure in areas directly below the
> > LEDs.
> >>> So I think for me .5 inch LED spacing is what I am going to use
to get
> >>> uniformity. I will do a few more tests of increasing the
distance to 2
> >>> inches above the board to see how that works.
> >>>
> >>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
> >>> <javaguy11111@> wrote:
> >>>> I just did a quick test with my UV LEDs using a step pattern going
> >>>> from 10/10 spacing down to 1/1 spacing in thousands of an inch.
This
> >>>> test pattern was printed by an Epson 2400 printer using Pictorico
> >>>> transparency.
> >>>>
> >>>> The leds were 1 1/4 inches above the board with a .5 inch
spacing. I
> >>>> tested with 4 LED's running 2 in series and then 2 of those in
> >>>> parallel running 20ma at 6.6V. 
> >>>> Exposure time was 60 seconds. 
> >>>>
> >>>> After developing in sodium carbonate, I got good lines down to  3/3
> >>>> spacing. The 2/2 looked pretty good as well, but was a bit jagged.
> >>>> Possibly due to the 1440 dpi resolution of the printer. The 1/1
lines
> >>>> were all merged together. 
> >>>>
> >>>> I will try 3/4 inch and 1 inch spacing over the weekend to see how
> >>>> those work, before I commit to a spacing. I will post the
results of
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >>>> those tests as well.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-05 by Ben Buxton

javaguy11111 wrote:
> 
> 
> The half angle is 10 degrees which is the half power point according
> to the data sheet from Best Hong Kong. So if I want the two LEDs half
> power point to fall halfway between them, that would be .25 inches. A
> little trig gives me that the LEDs should be 1.4 inches above the board.
> 
> So I am pretty close to what a calculation will show. Of course 1.25
> was just a guess, not a calculation.

Have you tried chopping off the tops of the LEDs with a Dremel? That 
should give significantly broader coverage, no longer constrained to the 
10 degree lens. I do this when making arrays of LEDs for illumination.

You can test the coverage using a luminescent (day-glow) material. The 
average intensity will be lower, but more even.

BB

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-05 by javaguy11111

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ben Buxton <bb@...> wrote:
>
> javaguy11111 wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > The half angle is 10 degrees which is the half power point according
> > to the data sheet from Best Hong Kong. So if I want the two LEDs half
> > power point to fall halfway between them, that would be .25 inches. A
> > little trig gives me that the LEDs should be 1.4 inches above the
board.
> > 
> > So I am pretty close to what a calculation will show. Of course 1.25
> > was just a guess, not a calculation.
> 
> Have you tried chopping off the tops of the LEDs with a Dremel? That 
> should give significantly broader coverage, no longer constrained to
the 
> 10 degree lens. I do this when making arrays of LEDs for illumination.
> 
> You can test the coverage using a luminescent (day-glow) material. The 
> average intensity will be lower, but more even.
> 
> BB
>

You want to keep the 10 degree angle so the lines do not get undercut.

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-05 by pork_u_pine2000

I have been fooling around with these UV LED's for several months by
fits and starts.  I bought a bunch from BestHongKong, and started out
to use those, but then I found some suspiciously similar devices
assembled into arrays at Sure Electronics, another vendor hailing from
China as well.  

I was pretty happy with BestHongKong since they put up more technical
information than I have seen from anyone similar on eBay, and service
was as good as it can be from that distance.  Sure Electronics has
proved to be an equally good source for different stuff - quite a
range of things.   The information on LEDs is not quite so complete,
but the service has been very good.  

The arrays I purchased are assembled on an aluminum strip with thermal
compound and include some sort of power conditioning that allows them
to work direct from up to 13.5 v DC or 9 v AC.  They just seem to
work, and don't get particularly warm as far as I can tell.  I later
purchased larger modules that have 24 UV LEDs per strip.  

Sure claims (I have no means to verify) the strips produce a narrow
emission peak between 385 and 395nm.  This seems to match the optimal
sensitivity of commercial (and home brew) organo-bichromate emulsions
pretty well.  I thought that something closer to the actinic UV-B peak
at 254 nm would be required, but several sources indicate otherwise.  

Polymeric activation of UV sensitive plastics may be another matter. 
There is wide variation depending on chemistry.  But these are the
shortest wavelength LEDs I have been able to find at these kind of
prices.  If you can pay, Roithner-Lasertechnik and others have devices
almost to the soft x-ray region (at > $US1k-3K *per* LED).

Anyway, being somewhat conflicted about spending a lot of time on
this, and more than a little lazy, I opted to put together an array of
of the initial 8 LED arrays on a piece of heat sink. I put this inside
a box constructed from 0.5 inch foamcore that I had glued a thin mylar
'spaceblanket' material to as a reflector.  With a generous
application of duct tape this made a pretty good base for my unit.  

For the upper half I used the upper portion of an old HP Greyscale
scanner that had given its life for science sometime before (they sure
don't make them like they used to).  For simplicity I power the whole
works with a couple of 12v Gel Cells that I trickle charge with an old
car charger.

I have not characterized this contrivance rigorously as you seem to be
trying to do, and even I see this as a largely inadequate design, but
I have worked with it enough to be surprised at the total output.  I
keep overexposing things.  I began with my own coating that I
concocted from purified fish glue (gelatin made from cold water
species of fish), ammonium bichromate, and a bit of pigment to make it
easier to see.

I began by trying to measure an H & D type exposure curve using a
stepped gradient exposure strip leftover from my father's darkroom
equipment.  The biggest problem I had was getting into the correct
range.  Particularly because, as I believe Adam observed,  most of the
formulations used for this sort of thing are tuned for high contrast.
This is just as it has been in the graphic arts for many years where
materials like Kodalith Ortho #3 were used for producing halftone
images and line art for arcing printing plates.  

What I did find was that uniformity of illumination was not *as*
critical as I believe you are assuming it is (the high contrast
corrects for that in large part) and that these things put out a lot
more light than I would have guessed.  

I hope to get back to these researches soon ("wife be willing and the
creek don't rise").  I have acquired a substantial stash of the dry
emulsion to play with and I 'm impressed with the potential for the
chemical machining of steel and other metals in addition to the
fabrication of PCBs.

Some links to (kind of BIG) pictures that may work:

http://206.152.116.84/Pictures/Projects/PCB/PCB_073.jpg
http://206.152.116.84/Pictures/Projects/PCB/PCB_074.jpg
http://206.152.116.84/Pictures/Projects/PCB/PCB_075.jpg
http://206.152.116.84/Pictures/Projects/PCB/PCB_076.jpg
http://206.152.116.84/Pictures/Projects/PCB/PCB_077.jpg
http://206.152.116.84/Pictures/Projects/PCB/PCB_078.jpg

-- Dave W.

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-06 by javaguy11111

I did up a little program in scilab to add up contributions of a 1D
array of LEDs based on the intensity diagram from the BestHongKong
LEDs. You will have to download scilab to run it. Google for it if you
do not know what it is.

I am assuming that the radiation diagram is in W/m^2-sr or Watts per
meter squared per steradian, but values returned are just relative to
the what is in the radiation diagram. 

For my case of a .5 inch grid spacing it looks like something around
1.9 inches looks optimal which is close to what Adam was recommending.

Disclaimer, I am not an optics expert so I could be doing something
wrong, but the results look reasonable.


//Simple 1D intensity calculator
//Use with scilab
//Change gridl,gridy,gridx to get different patterns
clear all;
gridl=12;  //Number of LEDs
gridy=1.9;//Height above the board
//gridy=1.42;//Height above the board
gridx=.5;//Spacing of LEDs

//Calculate the intensity of a single LED based on 
//angle
function result=getInten(rtheta)
  //Angles step with intensity .1
  //20 Degree LED/10 degree half angle
  point=[0  5  6 7  8  9  10  11  15  20 90];
  //40 degree LED
//  point=[0  8  11 15 18  20  22  28  37  55 90];
  inten=[1,.9,.8, .7, .6, .5, .4, .3, .2, .1, 0];
  theta=abs(rtheta*180/%pi);
//  printf("angle is %i\n",theta);
  prevVal=0;
  currentVal=0;
  if(theta==0)
    result=1;
    return;
  end
  for i=2:length(point)
    currentVal=point(i);
    if currentVal>theta then
      dtheta=currentVal-prevVal;
      dinten=inten(i)-inten(i-1);
      result=inten(i-1)+(theta-point(i-1))*dinten/dtheta;
      return;
    end
    prevVal=currentVal;
//    printf("%i\n",point(i));
  end
  result=0;
endfunction

//Calculate total intensity at a point from
//an line of LEDs
function result=getTotal(x)
  result=0;
  for i=1:gridl
    result=result+getInten(atan((x-gridx*i)/gridy));
  end
endfunction

x=-3*gridx:.05:gridx*(gridl+3);
value=1:1:length(x);

for i=1:length(x)
  value(i)=getTotal(x(i));
end

scf(1);
clf();
text=sprintf("%i LEDs   %.2f spacing   %.2f height",gridl,gridx,gridy);
plot2d(x,value,leg=text);

Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-06 by pork_u_pine2000

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "javaguy11111"
<javaguy11111@...> wrote:
>
> I did up a little program in scilab to add up contributions of a 1D
> array of LEDs based on the intensity diagram from the BestHongKong
> LEDs. You will have to download scilab to run it. Google for it if you

....

Very interesting!  I have had SciLab installed and wanted to do
something useful with it for a while, so I just opened it up and
dropped in the code and it drew me a nice graph!.  Unfortunately this
sort of tool came along long after I gave up on math (or it gave up on
me) and I never learned to use this kind of modeling.

SciLab is an extremely cool tool on either Windows or Linux!


-- Dave

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: UV LED Test

2008-03-06 by Adam Seychell

javaguy11111 wrote:
> I did up a little program in scilab to add up contributions of a 1D
> array of LEDs based on the intensity diagram from the BestHongKong
> LEDs. You will have to download scilab to run it. Google for it if you
> do not know what it is.
> 
> I am assuming that the radiation diagram is in W/m^2-sr or Watts per
> meter squared per steradian, but values returned are just relative to
> the what is in the radiation diagram. 
> 
> For my case of a .5 inch grid spacing it looks like something around
> 1.9 inches looks optimal which is close to what Adam was recommending.

That 2" was just minimum distance from what I observed to look 'fairly' 
uniform. I had a quick look at you model and it seems valid to me. I'm a 
bit of a Scilab fan too. You biggest problem might be inaccuracy of the 
1/2 intensity verse angle plot on the datasheet. To do it properly you 
really need a contour diagram at various intensities. Well its good for 
the exercise anyway.


I've just made the array using the BestHongKong 390-395nm LEDs.
After experimentation, my final grid arrangement is 11 x 9 LEDs, with a 
18mm pitch. PCB to LED distance will be about 170mm (7")
This gives a usable exposure area of approximately 180 x 130mm (7 x 5").

Adam

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.