Homebrew PCBs

Hello just want to say If this is not allowed please delete post. I am
at the end of my rope here. Ive bought and modified a Epson c88
printer for direct printing. Ive bought a HP laserjet 1100 for TT. I
drove 100 miles today to get the right data cord for it. It will not
feed my staples basic photo paper. Now its blinking at me and I am to
the point o.k. you win. Is there anyone on this board who would print
out 10 sheets of prints for me. Need as many items per sheet as
possible. They are 2 inches round.Its not even really a pcb I need. Im
making slip rings with 4 commutators on it. Basically 4 circles like a
pistol target.Ive designed it in eagle cad so I have the design I
need. Does anyone want to make some Christmas money here.Single sided
one layer. I will do the ironing on and etching. If I had more time I
would figure this out just running out of time. Steve

TT (TonerTransfer) works with Toner...i.e.   laser printers.
Not LaserJET   (inkjet)..    Is this where your problem is??
I cannot read EagleCAD drawings.   Can U convert to pdf??
Or is there a "reader version" of EagleCAD.  If U can get it
in a file format that Staples can read, U can probably have them
do the TonerTransfer for U, since U say U are using photo paper
actually FROM Staples....(?)  PM me if U need more info.
Hope this helps....  afn tone

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mille_4me" <mille_4me@...> wrote:

>
> Hello just want to say If this is not allowed please delete post. I am
> at the end of my rope here. Ive bought and modified a Epson c88
> printer for direct printing. Ive bought a HP laserjet 1100 for TT. I
> drove 100 miles today to get the right data cord for it. It will not
> feed my staples basic photo paper. Now its blinking at me and I am to
> the point o.k. you win. Is there anyone on this board who would print
> out 10 sheets of prints for me. Need as many items per sheet as
> possible. They are 2 inches round.Its not even really a pcb I need. Im
> making slip rings with 4 commutators on it. Basically 4 circles like a
> pistol target.Ive designed it in eagle cad so I have the design I
> need. Does anyone want to make some Christmas money here.Single sided
> one layer. I will do the ironing on and etching. If I had more time I
> would figure this out just running out of time. Steve
>

TonyB wrote:
> TT (TonerTransfer) works with Toner...i.e.   laser printers.
> Not LaserJET   (inkjet).. 

Actually the HP LaserJet printers *are* laser printers, i.e. using toner, an 
OPC imaging drum and a laser to create images.

The HP DeskJet and PhotoSmart series and most of the all-in-ones are inkjet 
printers.

-- 
Phil.                         |  (\_/)  This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny
ygroups@...         | (='.'=) into your signature to help him gain
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | (")_(") world domination.

Hello tony I actually have the file in pdf. Kinda weird when i print the file in eagle it is the right size. when I change it to pdf is reduces it a little.I played with the laser printer some more,used National Geographic pages and they printed o.k. Ironed them and some of the toner let loose when removing the paper. Feeling better was at least able to get some transfer. Work in progress I guess. Just very frustrating. Thanks Guys

TonyB <tbarros@...> wrote:                               TT (TonerTransfer) works with Toner...i.e.   laser printers.
 Not LaserJET   (inkjet)..    Is this where your problem is??
 I cannot read EagleCAD drawings.   Can U convert to pdf??
 Or is there a "reader version" of EagleCAD.  If U can get it
 in a file format that Staples can read, U can probably have them
 do the TonerTransfer for U, since U say U are using photo paper
 actually FROM Staples....(?)  PM me if U need more info.
 Hope this helps....  afn tone
 
 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mille_4me" <mille_4me@...> wrote:
 >
 > Hello just want to say If this is not allowed please delete post. I am
 > at the end of my rope here. Ive bought and modified a Epson c88
 > printer for direct printing. Ive bought a HP laserjet 1100 for TT. I
 > drove 100 miles today to get the right data cord for it. It will not
 > feed my staples basic photo paper. Now its blinking at me and I am to
 > the point o.k. you win. Is there anyone on this board who would print
 > out 10 sheets of prints for me. Need as many items per sheet as
 > possible. They are 2 inches round.Its not even really a pcb I need. Im
 > making slip rings with 4 commutators on it. Basically 4 circles like a
 > pistol target.Ive designed it in eagle cad so I have the design I
 > need. Does anyone want to make some Christmas money here.Single sided
 > one layer. I will do the ironing on and etching. If I had more time I
 > would figure this out just running out of time. Steve
 >
 
 
     
                               

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Check your PDF printer settings. You may have "fit to page" or "reduce
to fit" chosen, this will cause it to print very slightly undersized.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, steve lacey <mille_4me@...> wrote:
>
> Hello tony I actually have the file in pdf. Kinda weird when i print
the file in eagle it is the right size. when I change it to pdf is
reduces it a little.I played with the laser printer some more,used
National Geographic pages and they printed o.k. Ironed them and some
of the toner let loose when removing the paper. Feeling better was at
least able to get some transfer. Work in progress I guess. Just very
frustrating. Thanks Guys
>

Hello Steve,

A possible solution (one that I use since I don't have a laser 
printer) is to print out the PC artwork.  Take it to a big box office 
supply store (Office Depot in my case) and have them print it out on 
the toner transfer paper I provide using their laser copier.  Cost 
seven cents a copy.  I use Techniks, Inc. TT paper.

Also, what I do is print multiple copies of the artwork, cut them 
out, and paste on another sheet of paper.  Use this sheet of paper 
for the original and you get the maximum use of a sheet of TT 
paper.  Cost the same, seven cents, as printing just a single PC 
artwork item.

At 09:06 PM 12/5/2007, you wrote:
>Hello just want to say If this is not allowed please delete post. I am
>at the end of my rope here. Ive bought and modified a Epson c88
>printer for direct printing. Ive bought a HP laserjet 1100 for TT. I
>drove 100 miles today to get the right data cord for it. It will not
>feed my staples basic photo paper. Now its blinking at me and I am to
>the point o.k. you win. Is there anyone on this board who would print
>out 10 sheets of prints for me. Need as many items per sheet as
>possible. They are 2 inches round.Its not even really a pcb I need. Im
>making slip rings with 4 commutators on it. Basically 4 circles like a
>pistol target.Ive designed it in eagle cad so I have the design I
>need. Does anyone want to make some Christmas money here.Single sided
>one layer. I will do the ironing on and etching. If I had more time I
>would figure this out just running out of time. Steve
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

         73,
         Mike, K4GMH 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amen to Mikes suggestion.

I don't own a laser printer, and will not purchase one just for
the purpose of producing PCB's via the TT method.

The folks at my local Office Depot will print anything on
just about any paper that I provide, on condition that it
is not so thick as to cause the printer to jam.

They even allow me to dictate which side of the paper
I want the image to be printed on, and I usually submit
"step and repeat" image original which contains
multiple images for fabricating multiple PCB's from
identical artwork. In that way, I can utilize nearly the
entire 8" x 11" area of the TT paper.

I use a variety of papers, including Office Depot
branded High Gloss photo paper (rather thick), Epson
Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper (thin), and a paper from Fry's
called Professional Quality Glossy Photo Paper
#2687282 (medium thickness), and a few others I
can't identify.

I've also had TT images laser printed at a number of
local "Mom & Pop" operated postal/printing establishments in my area,
and all seem to produce very acceptable images for the
TT method. They all seem to use one or the other of the three major
brand laser printer machines.

It seems that the "snags" in the TT method arise in transferring
the image from the paper to the copper laminate.

This  info has been offered ad nauseam on this forum.
But then, everyone knows that I'm a bit pedantic.

Roland F. Harriston, PD
*****************


Mike wrote:

>
> Hello Steve,
>
> A possible solution (one that I use since I don't have a laser
> printer) is to print out the PC artwork. Take it to a big box office
> supply store (Office Depot in my case) and have them print it out on
> the toner transfer paper I provide using their laser copier. Cost
> seven cents a copy. I use Techniks, Inc. TT paper.
>
> Also, what I do is print multiple copies of the artwork, cut them
> out, and paste on another sheet of paper. Use this sheet of paper
> for the original and you get the maximum use of a sheet of TT
> paper. Cost the same, seven cents, as printing just a single PC
> artwork item.
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mille_4me" <mille_4me@...> wrote:
>Thank you for all the suggestions. I did have the page size set wrong
so Im printing from pdf to the right size. Have some good prints now
on the national geographic paper. Going to try sanding the copper with
1500 grit on a da sander see if that doesnt help. Though about Staples
and wondered how they would feel about using inkjet paper in a laser?
Have my afternoon planned will let you guys know how it works,Steve

> Hello just want to say If this is not allowed please delete post. I am
> at the end of my rope here. Ive bought and modified a Epson c88
> printer for direct printing. Ive bought a HP laserjet 1100 for TT. I
> drove 100 miles today to get the right data cord for it. It will not
> feed my staples basic photo paper. Now its blinking at me and I am to
> the point o.k. you win. Is there anyone on this board who would print
> out 10 sheets of prints for me. Need as many items per sheet as
> possible. They are 2 inches round.Its not even really a pcb I need. Im
> making slip rings with 4 commutators on it. Basically 4 circles like a
> pistol target.Ive designed it in eagle cad so I have the design I
> need. Does anyone want to make some Christmas money here.Single sided
> one layer. I will do the ironing on and etching. If I had more time I
> would figure this out just running out of time. Steve
>

agscal -AGSCalabrese <agscal@...> writes:
> What would you HBPCBers say is the best laser TT paper in your
> opinion *

I've only used three: The two styles of Pulsar paper (the old white,
and the new blue), and some magazine paper.  The Pulsar paper wins
hands down, but that's no surprise.  However, there's a trick to the
Pulsar paper too: it works best if you re-hydrate it by sticking it in
a closed box with some water (the paper should not *touch* the water
of course) for a few minutes so that the fibers are pliable and lay
flat when run through the laser printer.  I've also just held it over
a sink full of hot water for ten seconds; you can tell when it's
"right" because it loses its natural curl.

I tried making the gelatin paper once but all it made was a mess.

DJ Delorie:

Try as many types and brands of paper as you can get your hands on
and settle on the one that works best for you and your iron-on technique.

I have read about people who just use plain, ordinary photocopy paper with
good results. Some others use pages from Time magazine or mail order
catalogs.

As mentioned, and I believe, that the thing that separates to "men from 
the boys"
in the TT technique is how you transfer the image from whatever paper
you use, to the copper surface.

Roland F. Harriston, PD
*****************

I use the Pulsar paper with good results.  The secret tip to good results for me was preheating the board before transfer.  A cool or cold board won't heat up fast enough for a good transfer.  With a warm to hot board the transfer was quite good.

Stuart
WB6RXG

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: agscal -AGSCalabrese 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:27 AM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Poll: What is the best laser TT paper


  I have been lurking on the list for a long time and have seen many
  suggestions for TT paper.
  What would you HBPCBers say is the best laser TT paper in
  your opinion *

  Best

  Gus


   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Techniks

At 02:27 PM 12/6/2007, you wrote:
>I have been lurking on the list for a long time and have seen many
>suggestions for TT paper.
>What would you HBPCBers say is the best laser TT paper in
>your opinion *
>
>Best
>
>Gus
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

         73,
         Mike, K4GMH 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please do -not- start a thread by responding to another thread. Even
when you change the subject line and delete the quotes, Yahoogroups
strings it into the same thread.

See what I mean here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/19670

Thank you,
Steve Greenfield
listowner

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, agscal -AGSCalabrese
<agscal@...> wrote:

>
> I have been lurking on the list for a long time and have seen many
> suggestions for TT paper.
> What would you HBPCBers say is the best laser TT paper in
> your opinion *
> 
> Best
> 
> Gus
>

Sorry    I forgot about the thread issue again.
Gus

On Dec 6, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Steve wrote:

Please do -not- start a thread by responding to another thread. Even
when you change the subject line and delete the quotes, Yahoogroups
strings it into the same thread.

See what I mean here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/19670

Thank you,
Steve Greenfield
listowner

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, agscal -AGSCalabrese
<agscal@...> wrote:
 >
 > I have been lurking on the list for a long time and have seen many
 > suggestions for TT paper.
 > What would you HBPCBers say is the best laser TT paper in
 > your opinion *
 >
 > Best
 >
 > Gus
 >






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

	I bought the laminator and Pulsar paper from Digikey and I can say
that it is well woth the money !! On my first attempt I was able to do a
double sided board with 8/8 mils rules and it worked first time !!! Very
nice system with the green film that covers the pinholes left by the toner. 

	I used mechanical vias from bungard and cool-amp to plate the board.

 
	I was VERY impressed at the results. Much cheaper than sending to a
board house and very professional results more than good enough for
prototypes.
 
Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, agscal -AGSCalabrese <agscal@...>
wrote:

>
> I have been lurking on the list for a long time and have seen many 
> suggestions for TT paper.
> What would you HBPCBers say is the best laser TT paper in your opinion 
> *
> 
> Best
> 
> Gus

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, garydeal <garydeal@...> wrote:
>
> Steve, if you're anywhere near southwest Kansas, email me, I might be 
> able to help get the job done. I have plenty of various stuff here
aside 
> from the pcb material. I get the feeling you're not nearby though,
so you 
> have my sympathies.
> 
> >Is there anyone on this board who would print
> >out 10 sheets of prints for me.
>
Hello Gary, I live south of Manhattan. But I Make a trip to Liberal
about once every 2 months. I Drive thru Greensburg every time breaks
my heart. I appreciate the offer I have been able to produce some
pcb's. A little fine tuning and I will conquer this.Do the laminators
help that much? And what paper are you using? Thanks again Steve

Steve, if you're anywhere near southwest Kansas, email me, I might be 
able to help get the job done. I have plenty of various stuff here aside 
from the pcb material. I get the feeling you're not nearby though, so you 
have my sympathies.

>Is there anyone on this board who would print
>out 10 sheets of prints for me.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 02:30:31 -0000, you wrote:

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, garydeal <garydeal@...> wrote:
>>
>> Steve, if you're anywhere near southwest Kansas, email me, I might be 
>> able to help get the job done. I have plenty of various stuff here
>aside 
>> from the pcb material. I get the feeling you're not nearby though,
>so you 
>> have my sympathies.
>> 
>> >Is there anyone on this board who would print
>> >out 10 sheets of prints for me.
>>
>Hello Gary, I live south of Manhattan. But I Make a trip to Liberal
>about once every 2 months. I Drive thru Greensburg every time breaks
>my heart. I appreciate the offer I have been able to produce some
>pcb's. A little fine tuning and I will conquer this.Do the laminators
>help that much? And what paper are you using? Thanks again Steve

Laminators help lots, but you may have to feed it through a lot
depending on the board thickness.  

Some stuff at www.dragonworks.info.  If the front page links don't
work, then use the menus and go from there.

Harvey

Hey Steve,

>Hello Gary, I live south of Manhattan.

     Well, you're closer than I thought, I'm in Ensign, outside of Dodge 
City. It was that "100 miles for a printer cable" thing that made me 
wonder.

>A little fine tuning and I will conquer this.Do the laminators
>help that much? And what paper are you using? Thanks again Steve

     I've never tried TT. I have a roll of dry film resist, more than 
I'll be able to use before it dies unless I suddenly go into full-bore 
major production. I also have film, darkroom, and a variety of other 
stuff, most of which I already had when I decided I wanted to try 
etching, so I really only had to get the dry film, a UV source and a 
small laminator, and etchant to get that started. The run you spoke of 
didn't sound too difficult for two ingenious guys with a bunch of 
supplies.

     I've only made one pcb, my focus has been on being able to do simple 
brass photoetching for prototypes and special parts. I'm in the business 
of supplying miniaturists that work with horse related stuff in 1/6 and 
smaller scales. As a hobby, I tend to dabble in a variety of things - 
just enough so that I have the capability to use a process to make what I 
want. Another part of that "hobby" involves doing so with the least 
possible cash outlay, for the challenge of figuring it out and because I 
don't have lots of extra cash.

     If worse really came to worst, I also have a pantomill, which could 
be used to machine the boards. (the *hard* way)

     -Gary