Homebrew PCBs

I have been making PCBs about just about every homemade method for a
while currently I am using Kepro NEG dry film. But looking for a
faster CAD to finished board.

Well the direct method looks good I thought years ago about trying to
convert a copier to transfer the toner directly to the baord but thats
as far as I got.

Anyway I have convereted a C84 Epson to print on some thin copper clad
I am very disapointed in the results I have major pitting on the
etched PCB.

I am using the genuine Durabrite inks.
I have tried yellow magenta and cyan even tried black.
 yellow looked best but still not even usable.
Tried pre-etching + Preheating.
Tried FeCl and Sodium Persulfate.

Why do the color inks not laydown solid like the black they have an
orangepeel texture?   Black looks solid but doesnt hold up.
All inks look solid when printed on paper.

I think if I could get yellow to cover like the black it would work.

I tried to use the durabrite ink as a blocker and tinplate and use the
tin as the etch resist but the durabrite didnt even holdup to the ITP
plating. 

Oh well enough rambling throw in your input or questions and I'll keep
 plugging away.

I may settle for using this to print NEGs for the dry film the black
on transparencys is way better than I expected that would speed things
up I wouldnt have to wait for the NEGs to be made.

I will try and post some pictures Sunday.

Later
Ken

> Anyway I have convereted a C84 Epson to print on some thin copper 
clad
> I am very disapointed in the results I have major pitting on the
> etched PCB.
> 
> I am using the genuine Durabrite inks.
> I have tried yellow magenta and cyan even tried black.
>  yellow looked best but still not even usable.
> Tried pre-etching + Preheating.
> Tried FeCl and Sodium Persulfate.

You missed curing. You have to cure the ink at the temperature 
specified at
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm 
Without curing, it just washes off as you have seen.

> Why do the color inks not laydown solid like the black they have an
> orangepeel texture?   Black looks solid but doesnt hold up.
> All inks look solid when printed on paper.

That seems to happen to most people and it doesn't matter. Volkan is 
the only person I am aware of who has been able to get it to print 
without the texture. The texture doesn't seem to hurt anything.

> I think if I could get yellow to cover like the black it would 
> work. 

Magenta seems to have the reputation for the best resist after 
curing, but I believe there has been some success with other colors. 
Not black.

> 
> I tried to use the durabrite ink as a blocker and tinplate and use 
the
> tin as the etch resist but the durabrite didnt even holdup to the 
ITP
> plating. 


Again, curing is a critical step.

 
> Oh well enough rambling throw in your input or questions and I'll 
keep
>  plugging away.
> 
> I may settle for using this to print NEGs for the dry film the 
black
> on transparencys is way better than I expected that would speed 
things
> up I wouldnt have to wait for the NEGs to be made.

A number of people have reported success with that. 


> I will try and post some pictures Sunday.

I alway appreciate seeing the pictures, and a description of what we 
are looking at would be even better.


> Later
> Ken
>

James Newton
http://www.massmind.org

You have to cure the ink before you etch. 230C to 240C works best for 
me. If you preheat you should get the ink to look perfectly smooth 
after printing. If you look in the photos section you can see that it 
works extremely well if done correctly.

<jamesmichaelnewton@...> wrote:
> You missed curing. You have to cure the ink at the temperature 
Opps yes just in the post though I have been curing the pcbs tried 
the oven at 200deg for 1 hr and right on the flat cooktop at semi low 
until the pcb started to discolor.

> > orangepeel texture?   Black looks solid but doesnt hold up.
> That seems to happen to most people and it doesn't matter.
Ok I thought that the pit patterns kinda looked like what I was 
seeing in the ink so assumed it had something to do with it.

I havent had much time to play the last few days I do think that 
using irfanview for my conversions seems to make the fill better
but I havent had a chance to test it.

> > I tried to use the durabrite ink as a blocker and tinplate and 
thinking out loud what about a ink that doesnt cure until exposed to 
uv I am sure they make them just finding the right one.

I was even thinking about some kinda lacqure and flushing the heads 
after each use if I could figure out a solvent that wouldnt damage 
them.

Anyone know how much plastic touches the ink after the spike and 
what kinda chemical resistance it has?

> I alway appreciate seeing the pictures, and a description of what
> we are looking at would be even better.
I will get them I main computer is tied up crunching so I am stuck 
with the laptop for right now.

Thanks
Ken

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wnnelson0" <wnnelson@...> wrote:
>
> You have to cure the ink before you etch. 230C to 240C works best for 
WOW thats alot hotter than I was going.
Do you bake it at that temp? For how long? 

> If you preheat you should get the ink to look perfectly smooth 
I tried this but I think my method was useless by the time I ran from 
the oven to the printer I think it had totally cooled. I'll try again 
with a refined method.

> after printing. If you look in the photos section you can see that it 
> works extremely well if done correctly.
I have seen some VERY nice looking results thats why I JUMPED on the 
band wagon. I just am not seeing them yet I dont give up easy though.

Thanks for the input.
Ken

Ok I went and looked at the pics again and yet I am doing something 
wrong. Duh!

First nice mods on your printer.
I am using a c84 BTW dont know if I said that before.

A few more questions popped in my head.
How much do you preheat your boards before printing?
How long do you cure them?
What paper settings and quality settings?
and where is the file for that test board?

I am sure theres more I am gonna spend some more time reading 
then try again. 


Thanks
Ken

I use a small heat-gun to preheat the board to about 75C. This heating is done on the feed tray
and carrier so it is ready to go when I hit the print button. I actually continue to heat while it
is printing if it is a long board. You have to be careful to not melt the plastic on the back of
the printer, ask me how I know. The cure time is the same as Stefan's about 3 minutes until the
board is somewhat oxidized, slightly purple. I think most people are using matte paper setting
with best photo. Is there is another setting which gives a better dot pattern but is is a lot
slower. The board gets to cold using that setting. I'm not sure what you mean by " where is the
file".

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Nelson <wnnelson@...> wrote:
>
> I use a small heat-gun to preheat the board to about 75C. 
Ok I can do that.

After reading more last night I think you guys were right I wasnt
cureing the ink but just drying it real well at 200 deg F. I think
these two changes will help alot. 

>you mean by " where is the file".
The file that the boards in your photo section were made from.
It says something like epson magenta t0623 and has a bunch of 
sample footprints.

Thanks
Ken

I just made up that board in Eagle just for testing, I did not post the actual file. Anything will
do. You need to crank up the heat to about 450F.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kpyro2" <justnoone@...> wrote:
>
> Ok I went and looked at the pics again and yet I am doing something 
> wrong. Duh!
> 
> First nice mods on your printer.
> I am using a c84 BTW dont know if I said that before.
> 
> A few more questions popped in my head.
> How much do you preheat your boards before printing?
> How long do you cure them?
> What paper settings and quality settings?
> and where is the file for that test board?
> 
> I am sure theres more I am gonna spend some more time reading 
> then try again. 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Ken
>
HI TO ALL

a  questions regarding this subject pls:
 Reading an article one of this days on this subject, the author
mentioned we was able to feed ( on a NON MECHANICALLY MODIFIED EPSON),
a pcb material ( obtained from E-bay ) with a thickness of (0.005" /
130 micrometer).   
I spent quite some time trying to identify a source for this material,
as it will be perfect to my  application, especially if I could avoid
the delicate work of printer modification.
So far I have not found any source for it on any country.   
could anybody help please?????
Thanks in advance
JJ