Homebrew PCBs

Hi gang.  This is my first time trying this method and I am having
some troubles.

First of all I am using photo paper and an iron to transfer component
artwork to a PC board.  The boards are thick 1/8" and big 4" x 12". 
Unfortunately the only large glossy photo paper I can find in Canada
is Staples Photo Supreme high gloss paper - it says for Inkjet
printers, but they assure me it works with lasers as well.  I am using
a Panasolnix KXP7100 laser printer with panasonic toner.

I reverse print onto paper just fine. As directed on the web sites, I
cleaned the board with scotchbrite and then acetone.  I warmed up the
board with an iron set to "wool" for about 4 mins.  I first tried
ironing the paper for 1 minute, then warm water for 10 mins but barely
anything stuck.  My next attempt was trying 5 minutes with the iron -
but again, little stuck.

Any suggestions?

thanks
Don

--- d1camero <a8723@...> wrote:

> Hi gang.  This is my first time trying this method and I
> am having
> some troubles.
>...
> I reverse print onto paper just fine. As directed on the
> web sites, I
> cleaned the board with scotchbrite and then acetone.  I
> warmed up the
> board with an iron set to "wool" for about 4 mins.  I
> first tried
> ironing the paper for 1 minute, then warm water for 10
> mins but barely
> anything stuck.  My next attempt was trying 5 minutes
> with the iron -
> but again, little stuck.

you must set to "linen", not wool. you need the hottest you
can get.
use a paper towel between the iron and the paper and you
may iron until the paper yellows. do not apply too much
pressure and insure you move the iron so the holes don't
copy.
iron long enough so the board heats up well and uniform.
drop the hot board into luke warm water and gently lift the
borders so water get under the paper and releases quicker.


 
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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "d1camero" <a8723@...> wrote:
>
> Hi gang.  This is my first time trying this method and I am having
> some troubles.
> 
> First of all I am using photo paper and an iron to transfer component
> artwork to a PC board.  The boards are thick 1/8" and big 4" x 12". 
...

 My next attempt was trying 5 minutes with the iron -
> but again, little stuck.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 


Hmmm, after poor results with TT years ago, I've been trying it again
and it's working quite well. My biggest probelm is with ironing by
hand, the trace width varies slightly. I can get 12/12 in small areas
but I pretty much feel 16mil/16mil is the lower limit (stuff above
20mils wide looks great.

Stephan T. seems to really have this down but here's my process

Best paper for me right now is Hammermill OfficeOne Glossy Paper 
#229030  - I get mine at Sam's Club (online only). Thisn is also
inkjet paper but works just fine in Lasers. I think the  	 Hammermill
Color Laser Gloss Paper #292253 might also be worth a shot but I
haven't tried it yet.

I clean my board with just a Scotch Brite sponge & some drops of Dawn
dish soap with a little water, scrubbing both directions and little
circles, ect. Just a minute or so of cleaning is plenty. If the
appears to be any residue or I get a fingerprint on it, then I wipe it
with 99% alcohol (most drug stores have or can order the 95 or 99% stuff).

One important tip, I take a small file and file the ridge off the edge
of the board. Sometimes there's one left from the shear process and it
can keep the image from being pressed well.

I pre-heat the board for only about 30 seconds (if I'm doing single
sided, no preheat for double as the toner gets tacky and makes
alignment more difficult).

I place the image on the board and a plain sheet of printer paper over
that and then iron it with the irn on high (cotton). I place the iron
on the image and push just straight down to set it and then holding
the paper by the corner, slowly move the iron around the board. I've
found it best to push the iron away from the corner I hold so the
paper doesn't lift up (the sheet of printer paper helps here to, it
helps the iron slide better). I've been ironing the trace for 2
minutes on a pre-heated board, 2 1/2 to 3 if not pre-heated. A larger
board like yours is going to need a lot more time with an iron.
Probably about 2 minutes in each quadrant I would guess.

For double sided, I let the board cool, flip it over (image & transfer
paper still attached), align the second image (pre-driiled alignment
holes before transfers), and repeat the ironing process.

After ironing, I let the board cool, fill a sink with warm water
(couple of inches) and soak the board (usually 5 to 10 minutes because
I forget about it, couple is enough). I rub gently (sometimes scuffing
a spot with my nail to start it) and almost all of the paper falls
right off.I then soak the board a few more minutes and rub it again,
the rest of the paper removes easily. Rubbing gently with a foam Magic
Cleaning pad (not a scouring pad, a white foamy thing) removes any
residue between the small traces (ST says he uses plain foam rubber).

Then etch.  I used HCL once.  the mix was Muratic Acid (31% HCL) with
drug store Hydrogen Peroxide (3%).  I 50/50 mix etched the board well
but gave off plenty of nasty fumes. In a tub of warm water below the
etch tank though, it did etch the board in a couple of minutes. Went
back to Ferric Chloride though, it's more user friendly and can be
used indoors. I'll probably use the Muratic acid when the weather is
better (outside on a sunny day).


One thing is some toners work better than others. Work machines are HP
Laserjet 8000 series with HP cartridges. They work good. My home
machine is an HP Laserjet 1200.  I have a remanufactured cartridge in
it and it works really well, better than the machines at work (gotta
order a couple of spare cartridges from that place!)


I still like the photo process for fine images and truely professional
looking boards, but for pumping out a quick proto-type the Toner
Transfer is hard to beat. It's become my first choice for home boardz.

Phil
KA0HBG

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:02:39 +0200, d1camero <a8723@...>  
wrote:

> Hi gang.  This is my first time trying this method and I am having
> some troubles.
> First of all I am using photo paper and an iron to transfer component
> artwork to a PC board.  The boards are thick 1/8" and big 4" x 12".
> Unfortunately the only large glossy photo paper I can find in Canada
> is Staples Photo Supreme high gloss paper - it says for Inkjet
> printers, but they assure me it works with lasers as well.  I am using
> a Panasolnix KXP7100 laser printer with panasonic toner.
> I reverse print onto paper just fine. As directed on the web sites, I
> cleaned the board with scotchbrite and then acetone.  I warmed up the
> board with an iron set to "wool" for about 4 mins.  I first tried
> ironing the paper for 1 minute, then warm water for 10 mins but barely
> anything stuck.  My next attempt was trying 5 minutes with the iron -
> but again, little stuck.
> Any suggestions?
> thanks
> Don


You say you are trying to print component legend, if you try that on  
single-sided stock it is very tricky.
The smooth surface of the epoxy doesn't take toner well. I have trouble  
with it too, only roughening it (sandpaper) works.

OTOH the surface left by removed copper is rough and takes toner like  
crazy, so i'm always using double sided stock these days and just etching  
away the back side. Yes you can't transfer both copper artwork and legend  
in one go that way, but that's not too much bother. The micro rough  
surface left by etched copper holds toner so well i just rip the paper off  
without water. Sanding doesn't get it nearly as good for some reason.


My hat is off to anyone who can make repeatable transfers with a clothes  
iron, i would not want to attempt it any more.

I find the times usually suggested somewhat long, i believe my fuser takes  
just about 1 minute for a whole A4 sheet (30cm or so). My average board is  
much smaller than that so i do not know why it should take so long to iron  
it, especially since unlike the fuser the iron should be able to heat a  
large area at once. Maybe it is not hot enough. I don't know.

ST

Everyone, thanks for the help.  The problem really turned out to be
the paper.  I live in Canada, so the paper we get here is much
different names/numbers that in the States.  The paper I was using was
Staples Photo Supreme Hi Gloss Paper and it was terrible.

I finally tried HP COlour Lasrer Presentation Paper, Glossy and this
worked quite well.

Don

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "d1camero" <a8723@...> wrote:
>
> Everyone, thanks for the help.  The problem really turned out to be
> the paper.  I live in Canada, so the paper we get here is much
> different names/numbers that in the States.  The paper I was using was
> Staples Photo Supreme Hi Gloss Paper and it was terrible.
> 
> I finally tried HP COlour Lasrer Presentation Paper, Glossy and this
> worked quite well.
> 
> Don
>


Good news.  I think that's the same as the Office Gloss I'm using from
Hammermill. I was looking a both and they match up perfectly (I bought
the Hammermill because it was cheaper ;-) ... both were reasonably
priced though).

My results with this corporate presentation stuff have been really
good. Glad to here it worked, thanks for the feedback, I'll add the HP
stuff to my good list too.