Homebrew PCBs

Any one looking at printing on copper boards (or any material for that 
matter) using non-standard fluids might want to check out the print 
heads and inks being offered at this site: http://www.dimatix.com/. 
They offer piezoelectric print heads capable of 450 dpi to 900 dpi, 
printing fluids ranging from UV cured inks to hot wax. The printer is a 
bit expensive at $35K, but the print heads seem to be mostly self 
contained and are refillable, they range from $59 to $99 and may be 
adaptable to a cnc machine.

Dave

> bit expensive at $35K, but the print heads seem to be mostly self 
> contained and are refillable, they range from $59 to $99 and may be 
> adaptable to a cnc machine.

Now that is interesting.  I'd like to find out more details about the 
print head pricing, it feels like I'm going to call them on the phone 
and somebody's going to try and talk me into spending much more then 
$60 - $100 on a head assembly to retrofit my own equiptment.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "docstein99" <docstein99@...> 
wrote:
>
> > bit expensive at $35K, but the print heads seem to be mostly self 
> > contained and are refillable, they range from $59 to $99 and may be 
> > adaptable to a cnc machine.
> 
> Now that is interesting.  I'd like to find out more details about the 
> print head pricing, it feels like I'm going to call them on the phone 
> and somebody's going to try and talk me into spending much more then 
> $60 - $100 on a head assembly to retrofit my own equiptment.
>

The $59 to $99 numbers were quoted in the Feb. 26th issue of the EE 
Times. The $59 heads are 10 pL, the $99 heads were 1 pL.
See the full article original here: 
http://www.eeproductcenter.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197004425

Is this in quantities of one or thousands? One pico liter I believe is better than the Epsons, 4
pico liter I think. Would they give out the documentation to allow you to use on your own
equipment? That price is probably only for use in there box.

I agree, I am too a bit skeptical.  It doesnt look like that place is 
setup to sell and service one printhead to someone for $60.  Probably 
$60 for a print head, and $5,000 for the circuit board driver for the 
printhead.

Ok I called the office, and spoke with a very informative engineer.  
He then explained all the stuff I read on the website, and mentioned 
alot about how their versitile technology can print pretty much 
anything on anything.

But all that really doesnt make a difference, unless anyone is 
interested in spending $35,000 - $90,000 on the smallest machine they 
make, or sign a contract to liscence their printhead design for like 
100,000 units.  If you were a government funded research company, 
then you would get an invite to their labratory to use their 
equipment on site and develop a solution.

And even with the $35,000 machine, he said the heads for that cost 
$1,000 and offer no guarantee to clogging or damage so when they go 
bad you would have to pony up another $1k each time you tried a 
different ink or wax that clogged the head.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

JUST my two cents here --- if a company doesnt list a catalog online 
with prices and a check-out option, then the products are probably 
too expensive to buy.  And if their "contact us" lists offices all 
over the world?  Another sign that their products are intended to be 
bought a million at a time.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "docstein99" <docstein99@...> 
wrote:
>
> Ok I called the office, and spoke with a very informative 
engineer.  
> He then explained all the stuff I read on the website, and 
mentioned 
> alot about how their versitile technology can print pretty much 
> anything on anything.
> 
> But all that really doesnt make a difference, unless anyone is 
> interested in spending $35,000 - $90,000 on the smallest machine 
they 
> make, or sign a contract to liscence their printhead design for 
like 
> 100,000 units.  If you were a government funded research company, 
> then you would get an invite to their labratory to use their 
> equipment on site and develop a solution.
> 
> And even with the $35,000 machine, he said the heads for that cost 
> $1,000 and offer no guarantee to clogging or damage so when they go 
> bad you would have to pony up another $1k each time you tried a 
> different ink or wax that clogged the head.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> 
> JUST my two cents here --- if a company doesnt list a catalog 
online 
> with prices and a check-out option, then the products are probably 
> too expensive to buy.  And if their "contact us" lists offices all 
> over the world?  Another sign that their products are intended to 
be 
> bought a million at a time.
>

Thanks, It did seem to good to be true!
Oh well, back to hacking Epson cartriges!

>JUST my two cents here --- if a company doesnt list a catalog online
 >with prices and a check-out option, then the products are probably
 >too expensive to buy. And if their "contact us" lists offices all
 >over the world? Another sign that their products are intended to be
 >bought a million at a time.

<very big grin>....that description fits Microshaft, and some many 
others that it IS funny.

Regards,

Ross McKenzie
ValuSoft
Melbourne Australia

I should mention it was a very interesting and informative phone 
call.  The guy I got (think the name was RICK) tried keeping me on 
the phone for as long as possible (normally, if they hear "I wanna 
buy something for $60 the call ends quick).

He said, one of the clients is using the heads to print a silver-
conductive fluid onto the boards, which are then heat-cured in the 
oven @ 130 degrees 7-15 minutes.  This solidifies the fluid.  I 
said "oh, like solder-paste?" he said "yes".  So somehow- these 
printers are printing silver to BLANK (i mean NO COPPER) fibreboard 
and printing the traces right on it for oven cure.  No etching!

The piezo head technology is pretty much the same as what epson 
uses.  He explained alot about the chemistry and physics involved 
with the thermal print-heads (hp technology) and how those heads wont 
work for many fluids as the heat alters the molecules in such a way.

Unlike most big companies I call which try to get me off the phone 
once they found out I wasnt "the sony corporation" or someone else 
big trying to buy a million dollars worth of stuff, this guy kept 
trying to fill me with more and more information.  If you are at all 
a bit interested, I strongly suggest giving them a call, tell the 
telephone operator you want to speak with someone about the piezo 
heads.  The engineer I got on the phone was extremely enthusiastic 
about his technology and ready, willing and happily explained all 
aspects of the process in precise detail.