Homebrew_PCBs

Hi everyone,

Got info about when direct printing' thread began this
year.

Keyword search was : 'Future floor polish',

Thanks Stefan!

With that hint I understood lot of things.

Still I have a few basic questions about how-to-begin

1.

Do I need a torch to hack a Epson C84 ? (was told that
about Stylus 880)

2. Guess that in all cases I'd need a flatbed tray or
surface to put there the phenolic or epoxy,
copper laminated substrates to be printed on.

3. Which inks are recommended and wonder if it's
possible to get cartridge refills ?

Hope your hints.

Sam






__________________________________________________
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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, teknochaman <teknochaman@...> wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Got info about when direct printing' thread began this
> year.
>
> Keyword search was : 'Future floor polish',
>
> Thanks Stefan!
>
> With that hint I understood lot of things.
>
> Still I have a few basic questions about how-to-begin
>
> 1.
>
> Do I need a torch to hack a Epson C84 ? (was told that
> about Stylus 880)
>
> 2. Guess that in all cases I'd need a flatbed tray or
> surface to put there the phenolic or epoxy,
> copper laminated substrates to be printed on.
>
> 3. Which inks are recommended and wonder if it's
> possible to get cartridge refills ?

Take a look in the Links section, Inkjet Application of Etch Resist.
The one relevant to your question:

Direct Inkjet resist printing with Epson printers
Volkan and Stefan's tips to direct resist printing, using MIS Pro ink.
Thanks to James Newton for putting the pages together.
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm

Please, those with links where you've posted info, add to that Links
folder.

Thanks,
Steve Greenfield

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:52:15 +0100, teknochaman <teknochaman@...>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> Got info about when direct printing' thread began this
> year.
> Keyword search was : 'Future floor polish',
> Thanks Stefan!

Well, as i said, that keyword would turn up the very old posts about using
it in a HP, nothing ever worked back then, not even close, so no much
point in reading it unless you want to know how to kill a printer. The
good stuff is Volkan's post from 2006-4-13 and the following posts.

> With that hint I understood lot of things.
> Still I have a few basic questions about how-to-begin
> 1.
> Do I need a torch to hack a Epson C84 ? (was told that
> about Stylus 880)

My theory is that one needs high resolution or a printhead with many
nozzles or both to make it work. The old epsons i tried did not look
promising, the printout came out in individual lines. But it's only a
theory. Still seems safer to me to start with a printer similar to
something known to work.

> 2. Guess that in all cases I'd need a flatbed tray or
> surface to put there the phenolic or epoxy,
> copper laminated substrates to be printed on.

Or at the very least a modified CD tray in a CD printer.

> > Do I need a torch to hack a Epson C84 ? (was told that
> > about Stylus 880)

I just bought an 880 at a neighborhood thrift store (which BTW is a
good source for inkjet printers. Given that it would cost about $15.00
to ship ANY printer from ebay, I suggest everyone check their thrift
stores first, as I have seen them as cheap as $7.00 each)

I feel that ANY epson inkjet will probably work, and any used print is
likely to have problems, which I just buy the cheapest printer. Older
printers generally tend to be easier to hack apart, as well.

> I feel that ANY epson inkjet will probably work, and any used print

Well after hours of wrestling and reading, I think I have to take this
back. I feel a brand-new printer is the only way to save yourself from
spending hours upon days to fix nozzle/head issues from used printers.
Unless anyone manages to find to buy a used one that they can check
before they buy it.

The problem now with the new printers is having to buy 6,7, and 8
expensive printer cartridges instead of two.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 02:24:09 +0100, docstein99 <docstein99@...>
wrote:

Hello all -
A little update needed. I'm working on my second C84 conversion, and
had it working. But then the heads clogged(?), and after more
cleaning (even soaking for 2 days in a few mm deep isopropyl alcohol),
I can't get the ink to feed through the heads, at least not much.
Printing is very faint, and only the black print heads work. No
amount of having the printer clean its heads seems to have done
anything. Any hints? Is it time for a new broken printer?

Never, ever use just isopropyl to clean heads. It doesn't completely
dissolve all the ink, and worst of all it replaces/displaces the water
in the ink, then dries quickly and completely, leaving behind a
compacted hard mess.

I use a mixture of ammonia, water, and isopropyl. Details here:
http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/printheadcleaning

Do NOT think that more is better! Do NOT use undiluted household
ammonia, do NOT use lemoney scented ammonias, do NOT use bleach!

I've cleaned up a lot of clogged Epsons and never had to remove the
heads to do so.

Steve Greenfield

Steve wrote:

> I use a mixture of ammonia, water, and isopropyl. Details here:
> http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/printheadcleaning
>
>

Steve -
That link appears broken. Can you send the full details - proportions,
etc.?
Norm

Norm Stewart <w6nim@...> wrote: Steve wrote:

> I use a mixture of ammonia, water, and isopropyl. Details here:
> http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/printheadcleaning
>
>

Steve -
That link appears broken. Can you send the full details - proportions,
etc.?
Norm

Here is the link

http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Kim Vellore <kimvellore@...> wrote:

Thanks for the advice Steve. So you think that I have a chance with
some more cleaning? The weird thing was I was in the middle of
printing when the ink stopped flowing. I guess that may bode well
actually..

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:52:15 +0100, teknochaman <teknochaman@...>
> wrote:

> My theory is that one needs high resolution or a printhead with many
> nozzles or both to make it work. The old epsons i tried did not look
> promising, the printout came out in individual lines. But it's only a
> theory. Still seems safer to me to start with a printer similar to
> something known to work.
>

I recently discovered that people were printing PCB directly on copper
So I modified an old EPSON Stylus Color 600 to give it a try. Results
were poor, see photo album. I wonder how to avoid individual lines ?

> The initial results were with mispro, especially the yellow. More

recently

"bagmik" <bagmik@...> writes:

> So I modified an old EPSON Stylus Color 600 to give it a try. Results

Hey! I've got one of these on the shelf; the black ink was dead last
time I used it (long ago) but the color inks at least worked (then,
will have to get it working again). Do you have tips or photos of
your conversion?

one more word, I used the SCC service utility to clean the print head

http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml


DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
"bagmik" <bagmik@...> writes:

First, take a look at the results, the 3 photos in album "Stylus Color 600 original ink on copper" that I uploaded to get sure you wanna try.
I will probably try the Mispro inks, don't know yet where to find them, I'm living in Belgium. But I fear that results won't be better with this old printer.
So I'll do like others, find an used C84 or C87 to modify and try to get as good results as they do.
Nevertheless, here are some pictures with a description on how I modified the color 600.

On the front view (Pic 01) ,
- remove the cover (four screws) and the ouput bin,
- remove the platte which hold the 'pizza' (Pic 08) there are two screws,

On the back view (Pic 02), remove the automatic sheet feeder (two screws on each side), to do this, you
have to remove the top gear with a spring first, see pic 11

The print head assembly has to be dismounted to be able to remove a plastic part (Pic 09) from the paper input.
- on the top view (pic 12), remove the platte that hold the printhead ribbon cable, two screws,
- on the back, remove all the pressure roller (pic 13),
- on the left side view (pic 11), remove the three visible screws, there is a fourth screw on the front left side
- once all this done, remove the plastic part (pic 09)
- then reassemble all the stuff back

The automatic sheet feeder sensor has to be put back in place. Without it, the printer will always think there is a paper jam
Keep an eye on how the sensor is assembled to be able to reassemble it later
To do this, cut a part of the sheet feeder (pic 10) and about 5 cm (2") of the black axle.
Mount the sensor in place(Pic 03 - Pic 04)
As you can see, I used some plastic parts to keep the axle in place.

The paper sensor on the left side of the rear view (pic 05) has to be modified. The two lever form an angle of about 45°
I cut the axle in the middle and attach back the two pieces together with heat shrinking tube to form an angle of about 20°.
This modification is needed because the plastic part (pic 09) in the paper input has been removed and the paper sensor lever
doesn't rise enough anymore.

To be able to use 1.5mm tick copper clad, the print head need to be rised. This is easily done with the blue paper tickness lever
and the two black adjustment lever (pic 06), one on each side of the print head rod.

The input tray if made with a sheet of epoxy 2mm tick (pic 02) with a cutout for the paper lever sensor (pic 05)

To feed the copper clad, fix it with tape on a sheet of paper with a cutout of 9cm (pic 07). The printer expect a delay before
the paper pass on the paper sensor.




Things still to be done:
- find an ink that print correctly on copper and which is etch resistant (Mispro inks / original Epson ink ?)
- actually the input tray is kept in place with double sided glued tape, will use screws
- put an output tray to keep the copper clad horizontaly and avoid collision with the print head
- put a guide on the input tray to be able to feed the copper clad always the same way for double sided PCB


I got problem to attach the pictures to this mail (size too big) so I created a photo album in th group - Epson Stylus Color 600 mod



DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
"bagmik" <bagmik@...> writes:

A test with pre-heated copper @ 60°C (140F) give a better result
see photo album 'Stylus Color 600 original ink on copper'

I use SSC, too.

I've rescued a -lot- of clogged Epsons, some that have sat for years
after clogging.

Use the solution I gave on my site, and use lots and lots of
patience. And remember, if a little of something is good, that does
NOT mean that a lot is better! If I say to get the park pad damp,
that does NOT mean flooding it is better! More ammonia is NOT better.

And plain steam distilled or filtered water is better than any
alcohol.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Michel Baguet <bagmik@...>
wrote:

>
> one more word, I used the SCC service utility to clean the print

head

Michel Baguet <bagmik@...> writes:

> First, take a look at the results, the 3 photos in album "Stylus
> Color 600 original ink on copper" that I uploaded to get sure you
> wanna try.

Ick, looks like the ink would rather stick to itself than the copper.

Thanks for the instructions, though. Maybe I'll play with it anyway
if I get bored enough :-)

In fact, I didn't take care for the cartridges, they are the one that stood on the printer for at least a year and not epson brand but a pelican compatible.
So, I'm going to buy new inks and make more tests.
I believe that the ink lost its fluidity.


DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
Michel Baguet <bagmik@...> writes:

An update: Heads cleared, up and working - Windex on the park head
for a day worked wonders. No more isopropanol! In fact, I've found
if I use IPA to clean the copper, it causes blotching.

But another question - I'm getting random large drips off my print
heads, leaving big splotches in my circuits, and I don't get even ink
coverage - the first part of the board to print has thinner ink than
the later parts, which is quite heavy and well defined..

Any one else get drips???

Oh, also - - using mispro magenta with a little black, I bake the
boards in a toaster oven on high - and I can't get the ink off! I
haven't tried long soaks in acetone, but so far I can only get the ink
off with steel wool. Not exactly what I want to be doing to my nice
new boards.

How do I take off baked mispro ink?