Homebrew PCBs

Do you know this ?
http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=259&pmh=products/p_and_e_detail
I�ve received one to repair and was quite surprised ! These graphics
are printed directly, the box it�s aluminum !
Yesterday i went into a screen printing company to take care of some
business and i have showed it to them, they have confirmed that it�s
digitally printed with one 3 or 4 axis printer.
We are having a bad time to find a good ink to print directly to
copper and these companies print high quality graphics directly in
aluminum boxes.
Any idea of which ink it is ?

There is a difference between homebrew and multi-million dollar business.

Epson is able to *print*a  20-layer pcb with their inkjet technology.
If you spent enough money, they print it where you want.

If you print on aluminium, you probably actual print on the micrometer thick aluminiumoxide layer.

- Henry

www.ehydra.dyndns.info


-----Urspr\ufffdngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: "sam_jfs" <Samuel_joao@...>
An: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Februar 2007 20:59
Betreff: [Homebrew_PCBs] Check this out !!


Do you know this ?
http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=259&pmh=products/p_and_e_detail
I\ufffdve received one to repair and was quite surprised ! These graphics
are printed directly, the box it\ufffds aluminum !
Yesterday i went into a screen printing company to take care of some
business and i have showed it to them, they have confirmed that it\ufffds
digitally printed with one 3 or 4 axis printer.
We are having a bad time to find a good ink to print directly to
copper and these companies print high quality graphics directly in
aluminum boxes.
Any idea of which ink it is ?




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Is this ink or paint? 4 axis painting? I never gave it any thought until now. How is the fine line
resolution on that box? You need pretty good resolution to do PCBs.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Nelson <wnnelson@...> wrote:
>
> Is this ink or paint? 4 axis painting? I never gave it any thought
until now. How is the fine line
> resolution on that box? You need pretty good resolution to do PCBs.
>

Good resolution but no enough to make pcb´s. The important here it´s
the ink or paint used in that process and the machine that make this job.
It´s a bit logical isn´t it, but i didn´t though on that before! If
there is 3 or 4 axis CNC machines, why not printers ?

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:20:26 +0100, sam_jfs <Samuel_joao@...>  
wrote:

> Good resolution but no enough to make pcb�s. The important here it�s
> the ink or paint used in that process and the machine that make this job.
> It�s a bit logical isn�t it, but i didn�t though on that before! If
> there is 3 or 4 axis CNC machines, why not printers ?


I did not doubt they exist, but the question is what use is it for us? We  
already knew there were flatbed printers to print signs and stuff, but  
what use are they to us without winning the lottery first?

I don't think the same inks would work in cheap household printers.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "otc_friend" <otc_friend@...> wrote:
>
> There is a difference between homebrew and multi-million dollar
business.
> 
> Epson is able to *print*a  20-layer pcb with their inkjet technology.
> If you spent enough money, they print it where you want.
> 
> If you print on aluminium, you probably actual print on the
micrometer thick aluminiumoxide layer.
> 

More likely, the box is painted white with some conventional method,
then inkjet printed. But you barely need 300dpi to print something
like that.

I would not be surprised if they use HP thermal inkjet print heads.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> 
> I did not doubt they exist, but the question is what use is it for
us? We  
> already knew there were flatbed printers to print signs and stuff, but  
> what use are they to us without winning the lottery first?
> 
> I don't think the same inks would work in cheap household printers.
> 
> ST
>

Just curiosity...
About flatbed printers, or XY printers, i saw some years ago one of my
customers printing in PVC, it was some electrical components and he
used that printer to label them. He used some special Rottring black
pens to do it. 
It´s not so hard to modify a XY printer and they are quite cheap (
used ), the problem is, finding the right ink to do this job ...

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:35:14 +0100, sam_jfs <Samuel_joao@...>  
wrote:

> Just curiosity...
> About flatbed printers, or XY printers, i saw some years ago one of my
> customers printing in PVC, it was some electrical components and he
> used that printer to label them. He used some special Rottring black
> pens to do it.
> It�s not so hard to modify a XY printer and they are quite cheap (
> used ), the problem is, finding the right ink to do this job ...


Most of them seem to use UV cure ink.
There was even a webpage about an italian company selling small flatbed  
inkjets specifically for PCB printing. I have not heard anything about  
them since. Another italian company called Durst makes printers for  
printing on ceramic tiles, they manufacture here in Austria.

Those flatbed printers also sometimes have white ink, which would be nice  
for the people insisting on white component legend, but i don't think  
those UV inks would work in epson heads (or any other consumer printer). I  
may be wrong though and you are welcome to try, if you can get the ink,  
which seems especially tricky.

ST

On Saturday 24 February 2007 13:35, sam_jfs wrote:
> It´s not so hard to modify a XY printer and they are quite cheap (
> used ), the problem is, finding the right ink to do this job ...

hobout squishing these two together
http://www.hackaday.com/2006/10/08/inker-the-hand-inkjet/
http://www.fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Brian

> It\ufffds not so hard to modify a XY printer and they are quite cheap (
> used ), the problem is, finding the right ink to do this job ...
>hobout squishing these two together
http://www.hackaday.com/2006/10/08/inker-the-hand-inkjet/
http://www.fabathome.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
>Brian


sniffing around here
http://www.xpress3d.com/Materials.aspx?sh=1
I dont see any info about the viscosity of these resins in the data sheets 
but if they would pass through a printhead ok or be thinned down somehow and 
then cured with an IR light source ... any thoughts

Thomas

> sniffing around here
> http://www.xpress3d.com/Materials.aspx?sh=1
> I dont see any info about the viscosity of these resins in the data sheets 
> but if they would pass through a printhead ok or be thinned down somehow 
> and then cured with an IR light source ... any thoughts
>
> Thomas

Ooops found it ... crazy day !!!
I was looking at the Somos 11120 & 14120 data sheet and it indicates 260 & 
240 cps, how does this compare with the Durabrite / Mispro inks for 
viscosity?

and I should have said a UV light source.
and some info here about the technology 
http://www.xpress3d.com/Processes.aspx?sh=1

Thomas

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > sniffing around here
> > http://www.xpress3d.com/Materials.aspx?sh=1
> > I dont see any info about the viscosity of these resins in the 
data sheets 
> > but if they would pass through a printhead ok or be thinned down 
somehow 
> > and then cured with an IR light source ... any thoughts
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> Ooops found it ... crazy day !!!
> I was looking at the Somos 11120 & 14120 data sheet and it 
indicates 260 & 

> 240 cps, how does this compare with the Durabrite / Mispro inks for 
> viscosity?
> 
> and I should have said a UV light source.
> and some info here about the technology 
> http://www.xpress3d.com/Processes.aspx?sh=1
> 
> Thomas
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > sniffing around here
> > http://www.xpress3d.com/Materials.aspx?sh=1
> > I dont see any info about the viscosity of these resins in the 
data sheets 
> > but if they would pass through a printhead ok or be thinned down 
somehow 
> > and then cured with an IR light source ... any thoughts
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> Ooops found it ... crazy day !!!
> I was looking at the Somos 11120 & 14120 data sheet and it 
indicates 260 & 

> 240 cps, how does this compare with the Durabrite / Mispro inks for 
> viscosity?
> 
> and I should have said a UV light source.
> and some info here about the technology 
> http://www.xpress3d.com/Processes.aspx?sh=1
> 
> Thomas
>

"Poise" is a unit of measure for viscosity -- centipoise is 1/100 of 
a POISE. Water is 1  and olive oil is approxiamately 100. 

Here's a link:

http://www.sizes.com/units/poise.htm

UV curable inks tend te be very thick, high solids liquids. They 
reduce the VOC's (Volatile Organic Compound) released to the 
atmsophere.

One way to reduce the viscosoity is by heating.

Most likely too thick to run through a home printer printhead.

Myc



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > sniffing around here
> > http://www.xpress3d.com/Materials.aspx?sh=1
> > I dont see any info about the viscosity of these resins in the 
data sheets 
> > but if they would pass through a printhead ok or be thinned down 
somehow 
> > and then cured with an IR light source ... any thoughts
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> Ooops found it ... crazy day !!!
> I was looking at the Somos 11120 & 14120 data sheet and it 
indicates 260 & 

> 240 cps, how does this compare with the Durabrite / Mispro inks for 
> viscosity?
> 
> and I should have said a UV light source.
> and some info here about the technology 
> http://www.xpress3d.com/Processes.aspx?sh=1
> 
> Thomas
>

Ok, let's try it again :)

"Poise" is the unit of measure for viscosity. Centipoise = 1/100 of a 
poise.

Water is 1, Olive oil is 100.

Here is a link:  http://www.sizes.com/units/poise.htm

UV curable inks are thick, high solids liquids. The main benefit is 
that they have very little solvents, and therefore have low VOC's. 
Volatile Organic compounds are not enviromently friendly and are 
monitored by the government.

The arer probably too thick to run through a home inkjet printer.

Myc



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > sniffing around here
> > http://www.xpress3d.com/Materials.aspx?sh=1
> > I dont see any info about the viscosity of these resins in the 
data sheets 
> > but if they would pass through a printhead ok or be thinned down 
somehow 
> > and then cured with an IR light source ... any thoughts
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> Ooops found it ... crazy day !!!
> I was looking at the Somos 11120 & 14120 data sheet and it 
indicates 260 & 

> 240 cps, how does this compare with the Durabrite / Mispro inks for 
> viscosity?
> 
> and I should have said a UV light source.
> and some info here about the technology 
> http://www.xpress3d.com/Processes.aspx?sh=1
> 
> Thomas
>

Notice on page 4 the vicosities of the inkjet inks, very low compared to the materials at
Expess3D, almost the same as water.
 But this is all encouraging for alternates to regular ink. Now does anybody have the time to
reseach all of these print head makers and all of the ink substitutes and try them out? Surely
somebody has a few extra years laying around.

Down at the bottom on page 8 is a lot of good reading if you can find them. It would appear that
the "Big Boys" are hard at work finding just the right resist we need. All we have to do is get
them to share.