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finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-10 by David McNab

Hi,

Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?

I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
onto PCB via the CD tray.

The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it will be
able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is that
inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
path.

Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
boards.

Any ideas?

Cheers
David

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-10 by Leon

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "David McNab" <rebirth@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?


> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
> usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
>
> I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
> onto PCB via the CD tray.
>
> The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it will be
> able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is that
> inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
> path.
>
> Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
> boards.
>
> Any ideas?

How thin? PCB stock for multilayer boards can be quite thin, you might be 
able to get some free off-cuts if you have a PCB manufacturer near you.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign  G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND transceiver
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-10 by David McNab

On Sun, 2007-02-11 at 10:09 +1300, David McNab wrote:
> Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
> usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
> Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
> boards.

Oops - spoke too soon - Digikey has heaps: 473-1012-ND is 6x9 1/64"
single sided, they have plenty of similar under the search 'pcb copper
clad'.

Cheers
David

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-10 by keith

On Saturday 10 February 2007 16:09, David McNab wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
> usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
>
> I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
> onto PCB via the CD tray.
>
> The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it will be
> able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is that
> inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
> path.
>
> Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
> boards.
>
> Any ideas?
>snip<

How about SS 0.016" or DS 0.021" ? 

If so try:

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1034

They also have some carbide drill bits.
-- 
Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-11 by Herbert E. Plett

> 
> Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
> usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?

try this
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Copper-Clad-FR4-PCB-Laminate-Material-Thin-SS-or-DS_W0QQitemZ140083554361QQihZ004QQcategoryZ4660QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

was mentioned before in this list



 
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Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-14 by otc_friend

I have here 0.125mm thick copper foil single-side coated with epoxy.
The Epson Color 640 accepts it in "thick mode" switch.

If you need some, drop me a line.

regards -
Henry

www.ehydra.dyndns.info


-----Urspr\ufffdngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: "David McNab" <rebirth@...>
An: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Februar 2007 22:09
Betreff: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?


| Hi,
|
| Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
| usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
|
| I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
| onto PCB via the CD tray.
|
| The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it will be
| able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is that
| inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
| path.
|
| Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
| boards.
|
| Any ideas?
|
| Cheers
| David
|
|
|
|
|
| Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
|
| If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-15 by David McNab

On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 01:58 +0100, otc_friend wrote:
> I have here 0.125mm thick copper foil single-side coated with epoxy.
> The Epson Color 640 accepts it in "thick mode" switch.
> 
> If you need some, drop me a line.
> 
> regards -
> Henry

Hi Henry,

Thanks for letting me know about that. I'm full of questions:
- are you a dealer?
- if not, who is your supplier?
- what sizes does it come in?
- is it flexible enough to tolerate the very curved printing path
  of an HP2550L Color Laserjet or a Brother 1670N mono laser?
- what are the retail prices?
- is it available in small retail quantities, or only bulk?

Cheers
David
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> www.ehydra.dyndns.info
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
> Von: "David McNab" <rebirth@...>
> An: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Februar 2007 22:09
> Betreff: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?
> 
> | Hi,
> |
> | Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to
> the
> | usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
> |
> | I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
> | onto PCB via the CD tray.
> |
> | The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it will
> be
> | able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is
> that
> | inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
> | path.
> |
> | Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
> | boards.
> |
> | Any ideas?
> |
> | Cheers
> | David
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> |
> | If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> | Yahoo! Groups Links
> |
> |
> |
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-16 by otc_friend

Hi David -

>> I have here 0.125mm thick copper foil single-side coated with epoxy.
>> The Epson Color 640 accepts it in "thick mode" switch.

>Thanks for letting me know about that. I'm full of questions:
>- are you a dealer?
At the moment, maybe ;-)

>- if not, who is your supplier?
It was for another project left over.

>- what sizes does it come in?
I can ask the supplier for bigger sizes. At the moment I have 20 x 15 cm parts. One inch is 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm.
Probably it comes on roll.
I guess: if I etch the copper away, the back coating will be fully transparent. Great to make double-sided pcb. Just place front and
back beside, print and etch, fold front and back side (with markers). Laminate it for greater stability or leave the two foils
spray-glued as a elastic pcb.
(I removed a little copper mechanical and can now see thru like glass)

>- is it flexible enough to tolerate the very curved printing path
>  of an HP2550L Color Laserjet or a Brother 1670N mono laser?
I don't know of your specific printers. It goes thru my old TI microlaser 600 w/o problems.
You must coat copper if you want to print on it with a laser. Electrostatic problem otherwise.
Some printer may work w/o coating, I heart.

>- what are the retail prices?
If there is greater demand, I will look for supply.

>- is it available in small retail quantities, or only bulk?
You can have a single sheet. Of course, I'm located in Germany. Don't know postage prices to you.

At the moment I just printed a sample. There is a need for greater test series...

Hope that helps a little.

- Henry

www.ehydra.dyndns.info

Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-16 by Bert

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, David McNab <rebirth@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
> usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
> 


I've seen copper sheet as thin as 010" and .005"  ( .127mm). DigiKey
sells it. They used to stock it but it looks like special order now
(just means there will be a delay in receiving it).

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=73577&Row=767389&Site=US


It's still FR-4 though so I'm not sure how flexible it is. Makes me
wish I still had my old TI laser printer. It had 2 output slots with a
lever to sent the paper out the top or out the back. The back slot was
limited bending of the paper for haevy card stock. Bet I could have
sent this through it.

Other idea I had, I don't know where to find the palin stock but my
company does some boards on polyimide (flex boards). It's not much
different then heavy paper and bends pretty nicely. If you can find
the stuff plain, it might work.

Bert

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-16 by Stefan Trethan

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:22:54 +0100, Bert <bertd.geo@...> wrote:

> Other idea I had, I don't know where to find the palin stock but my
> company does some boards on polyimide (flex boards). It's not much
> different then heavy paper and bends pretty nicely. If you can find
> the stuff plain, it might work.
> Bert

Other than the tektronix phaser wax printer, is there even any definite  
positive result with direct laser printing? I can think of many reasons  
why it may not work, and don't remember any reports of success? Have i  
missed or forgotten something?
I mean it's well worth a try, but when i tried with aluminum foil it  
looked very bad, with my printer.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-16 by otc_friend

Can you provide the digikey number? Your link is dead.

regards -
Henry

www.ehydra.dyndns.info


-----Urspr\ufffdngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: "Bert" <bertd.geo@...>
An: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Februar 2007 16:22
Betreff: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?


| --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, David McNab <rebirth@...> wrote:
| >
| > Hi,
| >
| > Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
| > usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
| >
|
|
| I've seen copper sheet as thin as 010" and .005"  ( .127mm). DigiKey
| sells it. They used to stock it but it looks like special order now
| (just means there will be a delay in receiving it).
|
| http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=73577&Row=767389&Site=US
|
|
| It's still FR-4 though so I'm not sure how flexible it is. Makes me
| wish I still had my old TI laser printer. It had 2 output slots with a
| lever to sent the paper out the top or out the back. The back slot was
| limited bending of the paper for haevy card stock. Bet I could have
| sent this through it.
|
| Other idea I had, I don't know where to find the palin stock but my
| company does some boards on polyimide (flex boards). It's not much
| different then heavy paper and bends pretty nicely. If you can find
| the stuff plain, it might work.
|
| Bert
|
|
|
|
| Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
|
| If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|

Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-16 by James McGee

Not ultra but pretty thin...I found 1/32 at a descent price, well its 
26.88 USD.... But thats a 24"X36" Dont think it will pass through an 
un-modified printer but maybe slightly modified (so it dosent have to 
make the curved turn from the paper tray) If I could find some 
sutible ink for this old lexmark Z23 I would try it myself...
J




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, David McNab <rebirth@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to 
the
> usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
> 
> I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
> onto PCB via the CD tray.
> 
> The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it 
will be
> able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is 
that
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
> path.
> 
> Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
> boards.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Cheers
> David
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-17 by David McNab

On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 12:05 +0100, otc_friend wrote:
> Hi David -
> 
> >> I have here 0.125mm thick copper foil single-side coated with
> epoxy.
> >> The Epson Color 640 accepts it in "thick mode" switch.
> 
> >Thanks for letting me know about that. I'm full of questions:
> >- are you a dealer?
> At the moment, maybe ;-)

If myself or anyone here gets success running the stuff through a laser,
you could well start getting orders :)

> >- what sizes does it come in?
> I can ask the supplier for bigger sizes. At the moment I have 20 x 15
> cm parts. One inch is 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm.

That's great for unmodified (reasonably straight paper path) inkjets,
especially since they're usually very good with arbitrary stock sizes.

Quite possibly could also mount on carrier sheet to run through a laser.

> >- is it flexible enough to tolerate the very curved printing path
> You must coat copper if you want to print on it with a laser.

What should I coat the copper with?

> >- what are the retail prices?
> If there is greater demand, I will look for supply.

Positive test results would surely generate some demand.

> >- is it available in small retail quantities, or only bulk?
> You can have a single sheet. Of course, I'm located in Germany. Don't
> know postage prices to you.

One or two sheets between the size of a credit card and a postcard would
be great. I'm in New Zealand. I could give you some $$ and send you my
address if you send me your paypal email address and a postage cost
estimate off-list.

> At the moment I just printed a sample. There is a need for greater
> test series...

It would be a huge boost to be able to circumvent the thermal toner
transfer process, for many reasons such as:
 - eliminate artwork distortion
 - eliminate transfer failure areas
 - speed up the whole deal
 - allow for vastly finer artwork

It would give the advantages of photographic transfer, but without the
extra cost of photoresist boards (or photoresist spray), developer, uv
lamp etc.

> Hope that helps a little.

Very, very interesting

Cheers
David

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-17 by Z P

I am in Australia.

Local manufacturers of PCBs use mylar sheet clad in copper on one side only to manufacture flexible circuit boards and mobile antenna arrays which get wrapped aorund a suitable support.
I had been able to obtain offcuts from the local manufacturer, but i am sure they would supply the product if offered financial recompense.

So.. do call on your local manufacturers or laminate suppliers and ask for copper clad mylar. It is like a transparency sheet with copper on one side.
It will withstand light soldering and desoldering duty and makes a wonderful ground plane around assemblies which need shielding.



James McGee <ace@...> wrote:                                  Not ultra but pretty thin...I found 1/32 at a descent price, well its 
 26.88 USD.... But thats a 24"X36" Dont think it will pass through an 
 un-modified printer but maybe slightly modified (so it dosent have to 
 make the curved turn from the paper tray) If I could find some 
 sutible ink for this old lexmark Z23 I would try it myself...
 J
 
 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, David McNab <rebirth@...> wrote:
 >
 > Hi,
 > 
 > Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to 
 the
 > usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
 > 
 > I'm thinking about the recent threads about hacking inkjets to print
 > onto PCB via the CD tray.
 > 
 > The idea is if that the copper-coated medium is thin enough, it 
 will be
 > able to pass through any unmodified inkjet. The other good thing is 
 that
 > inkjets (as opposed to lasers) tend to have a much straighter paper
 > path.
 > 
 > Digikey only seems to sell 3/4" copper tape - way to narrow for most
 > boards.
 > 
 > Any ideas?
 > 
 > Cheers
 > David
 >
 
 
     
                       

 
---------------------------------
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-17 by Lez

> I mean it's well worth a try, but when i tried with aluminum foil it
> looked very bad, with my printer.

looked good in my hp4l, but board would not go through, and when I
tried to convert to flat path I gave up it was too complicated for me
with all those gears.

It will however take about 3 or 4 sheets of standard a4 at a time
without a jam, so I think if I could get copper foil then that would
work, then epoxy glue it to some board before etching

For the moment I'm happy with the uniball paint pen (px203 white) in a
plotter, but useless for small tracks etc due to pen tip width.

Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-18 by robwell

1 oz sheet (.00135" thick) in a 12" x 25" for $3.95:

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=129&step=2 

You can probably ask them to cut it into 11" x 25"

1 oz is pretty thin so you might try 3oz, which is closer to paper 
thickness (.00405). The downside is it is quite a bit more expensive

3 oz sheet (.00405 thick) in 12" x 25" for 14.15

I have no affiliation with these folks - just a happy customer.

Cheers,
Bob Welland

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-18 by William Nelson

What do you glue it to and with what type of glue? The glues used in copper clad board are heat
and expansion tolerant this may be hard to find for use home users. The glue actually melts before
the solder so the copper can expand. This seems to be a hard thing  to do when there is already
thin PCB stock out there. There must be a lot of it out there as PCB manufacturers make millions
of multilayer boards every day. Not easy to find for some reason. I did find the Injectorall link
for a start. http://www.injectorall.com/index.htm
There has to be more sources than that. You can search the world now and it's still hard to find
what you want. Go figure.

Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-19 by Bert

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "otc_friend" <otc_friend@...> wrote:
>
> Can you provide the digikey number? Your link is dead.
> 
> regards -
> Henry
> 
> www.ehydra.dyndns.info
> 
Oh shoot, sorry about that.

Uncoated, Double sided  0.010":
    3x4.5  PC60
    4x6    PC61
    6x6    PC61-S
    6x9    PC62
   12x12   PC62-T
   12x18   PC63

Double sided  0.005":
    3x4.5  PC90
    4x6    PC91
    6x6    PC91-S
    6x9    PC92
   12x12   PC92-T
   12x18   PC93

Boards are made by Injectorall, looks like they sell direct as well.

http://www.injectorall.com/FR4uncoatedboards.htm

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-19 by otc_friend

Thank you!

- Henry

www.ehydra.dyndns.info


-----Urspr\ufffdngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: "Bert" <bertd.geo@...>
An: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Montag, 19. Februar 2007 15:24
Betreff: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?


| --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "otc_friend" <otc_friend@...> wrote:
| >
| > Can you provide the digikey number? Your link is dead.
| >
| > regards -
| > Henry
| >
| > www.ehydra.dyndns.info
| >
| Oh shoot, sorry about that.
|
| Uncoated, Double sided  0.010":
|     3x4.5  PC60
|     4x6    PC61
|     6x6    PC61-S
|     6x9    PC62
|    12x12   PC62-T
|    12x18   PC63
|
| Double sided  0.005":
|     3x4.5  PC90
|     4x6    PC91
|     6x6    PC91-S
|     6x9    PC92
|    12x12   PC92-T
|    12x18   PC93
|
| Boards are made by Injectorall, looks like they sell direct as well.
|
| http://www.injectorall.com/FR4uncoatedboards.htm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
|
| If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
| http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
| Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-19 by otc_friend

| On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 12:05 +0100, otc_friend wrote:
| > Hi David -
| >
| > >> I have here 0.125mm thick copper foil single-side coated with
| > epoxy.
| > >> The Epson Color 640 accepts it in "thick mode" switch.
| >
| > >Thanks for letting me know about that. I'm full of questions:
| > >- are you a dealer?
| > At the moment, maybe ;-)
|
| If myself or anyone here gets success running the stuff through a laser,
| you could well start getting orders :)

Yeah. My TI microlaser can load it.

|
| > >- what sizes does it come in?
| > I can ask the supplier for bigger sizes. At the moment I have 20 x 15
| > cm parts. One inch is 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm.
|
| That's great for unmodified (reasonably straight paper path) inkjets,
| especially since they're usually very good with arbitrary stock sizes.
|
| Quite possibly could also mount on carrier sheet to run through a laser.

Just a support paper with a glue strip to hold the copper sheet.

|
| > >- is it flexible enough to tolerate the very curved printing path
| > You must coat copper if you want to print on it with a laser.
|
| What should I coat the copper with?

That is a really interesting question. I don't managed it until yet but not worked deep into.
I have a couple of ideas to test. If I can find free time...

|
| > >- what are the retail prices?
| > If there is greater demand, I will look for supply.
|
| Positive test results would surely generate some demand.
|
| > >- is it available in small retail quantities, or only bulk?
| > You can have a single sheet. Of course, I'm located in Germany. Don't
| > know postage prices to you.
|
| One or two sheets between the size of a credit card and a postcard would
| be great. I'm in New Zealand. I could give you some $$ and send you my
| address if you send me your paypal email address and a postage cost
| estimate off-list.

I sent you a pm.

|
| > At the moment I just printed a sample. There is a need for greater
| > test series...
|
| It would be a huge boost to be able to circumvent the thermal toner
| transfer process, for many reasons such as:
|  - eliminate artwork distortion
|  - eliminate transfer failure areas
|  - speed up the whole deal
|  - allow for vastly finer artwork

The etch process will remain. And etch resistant removing.

|
| It would give the advantages of photographic transfer, but without the
| extra cost of photoresist boards (or photoresist spray), developer, uv
| lamp etc.

That's why I'm interested. You can work on your project on the weekend or in a couple of hours. There is not need to wait for
delivery.

- Henry


www.ehydra.dyndns.info

Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-02-19 by mycroft2152

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "otc_friend" <otc_friend@...> 
wrote:
>
If your laser will run card stcok, then most likely the thin flex pcb 
material woll make it through the laser on a carrier sheet. There are 
still other problems, some lasers add a fuser oil, which can prevent 
adhesiosn. The copper has a large thermal mass as compared to paper. 
The brand of toner will also make a huge difference.

If you scratch the drum with the foil, you're up the creek and have 
to replace the drum.

I speak form experience. my old Laserjet IIIP+ worked fair, after but 
changiong the toner cartridge, ti didn't work at all, My Samsung 
ML2010 never adhered the toner to the pcb.

It was all worth trying, but there are some dangers. It is not going 
to be that simple.

Myc






 | On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 12:05 +0100, otc_friend wrote:
> | > Hi David -
> | >
> | > >> I have here 0.125mm thick copper foil single-side coated with
> | > epoxy.
> | > >> The Epson Color 640 accepts it in "thick mode" switch.
> | >
> | > >Thanks for letting me know about that. I'm full of questions:
> | > >- are you a dealer?
> | > At the moment, maybe ;-)
> |
> | If myself or anyone here gets success running the stuff through a 
laser,
> | you could well start getting orders :)
> 
> Yeah. My TI microlaser can load it.
> 
> |
> | > >- what sizes does it come in?
> | > I can ask the supplier for bigger sizes. At the moment I have 
20 x 15
> | > cm parts. One inch is 25.4 mm or 2.54 cm.
> |
> | That's great for unmodified (reasonably straight paper path) 
inkjets,
> | especially since they're usually very good with arbitrary stock 
sizes.
> |
> | Quite possibly could also mount on carrier sheet to run through a 
laser.
> 
> Just a support paper with a glue strip to hold the copper sheet.
> 
> |
> | > >- is it flexible enough to tolerate the very curved printing 
path
> | > You must coat copper if you want to print on it with a laser.
> |
> | What should I coat the copper with?
> 
> That is a really interesting question. I don't managed it until yet 
but not worked deep into.
> I have a couple of ideas to test. If I can find free time...
> 
> |
> | > >- what are the retail prices?
> | > If there is greater demand, I will look for supply.
> |
> | Positive test results would surely generate some demand.
> |
> | > >- is it available in small retail quantities, or only bulk?
> | > You can have a single sheet. Of course, I'm located in Germany. 
Don't
> | > know postage prices to you.
> |
> | One or two sheets between the size of a credit card and a 
postcard would
> | be great. I'm in New Zealand. I could give you some $$ and send 
you my
> | address if you send me your paypal email address and a postage 
cost
> | estimate off-list.
> 
> I sent you a pm.
> 
> |
> | > At the moment I just printed a sample. There is a need for 
greater
> | > test series...
> |
> | It would be a huge boost to be able to circumvent the thermal 
toner
> | transfer process, for many reasons such as:
> |  - eliminate artwork distortion
> |  - eliminate transfer failure areas
> |  - speed up the whole deal
> |  - allow for vastly finer artwork
> 
> The etch process will remain. And etch resistant removing.
> 
> |
> | It would give the advantages of photographic transfer, but 
without the
> | extra cost of photoresist boards (or photoresist spray), 
developer, uv
> | lamp etc.
> 
> That's why I'm interested. You can work on your project on the 
weekend or in a couple of hours. There is not need to wait for
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> delivery.
> 
> - Henry
> 
> 
> www.ehydra.dyndns.info
>

Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-03-21 by Bert

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bert" <bertd.geo@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, David McNab <rebirth@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Does anyone know how to get hold of blank PCB material, similar to the
> > usual 1.6mm thick copper-clad stuff, but ultra ultra thin?
> > 
> 
> 
> I've seen copper sheet as thin as 010" and .005"  ( .127mm). DigiKey
> sells it. They used to stock it but it looks like special order now
> (just means there will be a delay in receiving it).
> 

I found the ultimate thin copper sheet.  It's limmited to 1" wide
though. To be able to test the potential of copper sheet, I used 1"
wide copper tape.

I layed out my board to be only 1" wide (no length limit, mine was 3")
and then printed it on a test sheet of paper.
I then placed a sheet of laser transparency over the sheet and placed
 a strip of copper tape directly over the image and pressed it down tight.
I then ran the transparency with Cu tape through the printer (oriented
the same way as the test sheet was. 
After this, a piece of polyimide tape would be placed over the back
for extra support and Viola ... instant flex circuit.

This was a perfect carrier for printing directly on the copper. 
Sadly, as was expected (by ST I think), the copper does not pick up
enough toner. In areas where it did pick it up, the board looks great
but the overall print is spotty. I have a few other things to try but
doesn't look promissing in Lasers.
It make work in an inkjet except I'm not sure how well the carrier
sheet will survive the baking process. If someone tries it, let me know.

I'll post pictures of my results as soon as I take some.
Bert

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: finding ultra-thin copper sheet?

2007-03-22 by Brian Pitt

On Wednesday 21 March 2007 07:15, Bert wrote:
> I found the ultimate thin copper sheet.  It's limmited to 1" wide
> though. 

these guys have 2" and 8" wide tape 4mil thick
http://www.warmoth.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=23040&osCsid=tkbe06t5vun338odk6411kput3
or here
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Supplies:_Shielding/Conductive_Copper_Tape.html
and 3.5"x24"
http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_dimarzio_copper_shielding_tape?full_sku=364741%2e795&src=4WFRWXX

Brian
--
"Nemo me impune lacesset"

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