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Ultrasonic etching tank?

Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-16 by lwr20

Hi all,

Since most things have been tried at some stage by various people in the
group, I was wondering if anyone had tried speeding up PCB etching by
making/adapting an 'ultrasonic cleaning tank'.

This
<http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97187&&source=14&doy=16m11\
>  sort of thing.  This particular one wouldn't be suitable because of
the stainless steel tank (etchant attacks this, right?), but there must
be a plastic one available somewhere...

I can think of all sorts of reasons why this might not work (nasty
etchant vapours produced, breakdown of etchant, removal of etch-resist,
etc.) but until someone tries it we'll never know :)

Since these machines are used for cleaning jewellery, removing
grease/oil, rust, etc. maybe these things are useful for easy cleaning
of PCBs prior to TT or some other masking method?

Lance.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-16 by Stefan Trethan

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:20:18 +0100, lwr20 <lwr20@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
> Since most things have been tried at some stage by various people in the
> group, I was wondering if anyone had tried speeding up PCB etching by
> making/adapting an 'ultrasonic cleaning tank'.
> This
> <http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97187&&source=14&doy=16m11\
>>  sort of thing.  This particular one wouldn't be suitable because of
> the stainless steel tank (etchant attacks this, right?), but there must
> be a plastic one available somewhere...
> I can think of all sorts of reasons why this might not work (nasty
> etchant vapours produced, breakdown of etchant, removal of etch-resist,
> etc.) but until someone tries it we'll never know :)
> Since these machines are used for cleaning jewellery, removing
> grease/oil, rust, etc. maybe these things are useful for easy cleaning
> of PCBs prior to TT or some other masking method?
> Lance.


I have made the same suggestion a while ago, but nobody wants to try.
You can line the stainless container with a plastic baggie, even use water  
outside of that to reduce amount of required etchant etc..

If i get my hands on a cleaner i will try it.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-17 by Christopher Hart

Sometimes I will use one on small boards. I place the board and etchant in a 
small glass/ceramic container, put some water in the cleaner, then set the 
container in that. The one that I use also has a heating element, I use 
Ferric Chloride etchant (yes, the ugly brown stuff that stains everything), 
and the boards are usually done in about 2 minutes. With this same etchant, 
with the boards just sitting there (as I must do for larger boards) it takes 
about 1/2 an hour to 45 min per double sided board. (currently all my raw 
board, except the paper thin stuff is double sided.)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thursday 16 November 2006 15:20, lwr20 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Since most things have been tried at some stage by various people in the
> group, I was wondering if anyone had tried speeding up PCB etching by
> making/adapting an 'ultrasonic cleaning tank'.
>
> This
> <http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97187&&source=14&doy=16m11\
>
> >  sort of thing.  This particular one wouldn't be suitable because of
>
> the stainless steel tank (etchant attacks this, right?), but there must
> be a plastic one available somewhere...
>
> I can think of all sorts of reasons why this might not work (nasty
> etchant vapours produced, breakdown of etchant, removal of etch-resist,
> etc.) but until someone tries it we'll never know :)
>
> Since these machines are used for cleaning jewellery, removing
> grease/oil, rust, etc. maybe these things are useful for easy cleaning
> of PCBs prior to TT or some other masking method?
>
> Lance.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-17 by Stefan Trethan

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:23:09 +0100, Christopher Hart <kc8ufv@...>  
wrote:

> Sometimes I will use one on small boards. I place the board and etchant  
> in a
> small glass/ceramic container, put some water in the cleaner, then set  
> the
> container in that. The one that I use also has a heating element, I use
> Ferric Chloride etchant (yes, the ugly brown stuff that stains  
> everything),
> and the boards are usually done in about 2 minutes. With this same  
> etchant,
> with the boards just sitting there (as I must do for larger boards) it  
> takes
> about 1/2 an hour to 45 min per double sided board. (currently all my raw
> board, except the paper thin stuff is double sided.)

Can you rule out it is only the heating which speeds it up?

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-17 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Christopher Hart" <kc8ufv@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?


> Sometimes I will use one on small boards. I place the board and etchant in 
> a
> small glass/ceramic container, put some water in the cleaner, then set the
> container in that. The one that I use also has a heating element, I use
> Ferric Chloride etchant (yes, the ugly brown stuff that stains 
> everything),
> and the boards are usually done in about 2 minutes. With this same 
> etchant,
> with the boards just sitting there (as I must do for larger boards) it 
> takes
> about 1/2 an hour to 45 min per double sided board. (currently all my raw
> board, except the paper thin stuff is double sided.)

Why not use continous agitation for the larger boards by rocking the 
container? They will only take about 10 minutes.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon.heller@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-17 by Adi Linden

Will aquarium supplies do for building a DIY etching tank? I am thinking
air pump, heater, air hoese, etc. I am torn between building a small
vertical etch tank versus buying a microwave for heating small quantities
of etchant for sponging...

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-17 by Christopher Hart

Seems to be the combination. Without the heating, it takes about 5 minutes. 
When I do the larger boards, I have a problem of heavily used etchant sitting 
right next to the board, blocking the fresh from getting to it. I do the 
boards flat, and can't get them to float. I haven't tried it with only heat.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Friday 17 November 2006 10:14, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:23:09 +0100, Christopher Hart <kc8ufv@...>
>
> wrote:
> > Sometimes I will use one on small boards. I place the board and etchant
> > in a
> > small glass/ceramic container, put some water in the cleaner, then set
> > the
> > container in that. The one that I use also has a heating element, I use
> > Ferric Chloride etchant (yes, the ugly brown stuff that stains
> > everything),
> > and the boards are usually done in about 2 minutes. With this same
> > etchant,
> > with the boards just sitting there (as I must do for larger boards) it
> > takes
> > about 1/2 an hour to 45 min per double sided board. (currently all my raw
> > board, except the paper thin stuff is double sided.)
>
> Can you rule out it is only the heating which speeds it up?
>
> ST
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-17 by Christopher Hart

On Friday 17 November 2006 11:32, Leon Heller wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Hart" <kc8ufv@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Ultrasonic etching tank?
>
> > Sometimes I will use one on small boards. I place the board and etchant
> > in a
> > small glass/ceramic container, put some water in the cleaner, then set
> > the container in that. The one that I use also has a heating element, I
> > use Ferric Chloride etchant (yes, the ugly brown stuff that stains
> > everything),
> > and the boards are usually done in about 2 minutes. With this same
> > etchant,
> > with the boards just sitting there (as I must do for larger boards) it
> > takes
> > about 1/2 an hour to 45 min per double sided board. (currently all my raw
> > board, except the paper thin stuff is double sided.)
>
> Why not use continous agitation for the larger boards by rocking the
> container? They will only take about 10 minutes.
That would require me watching the boards constantly. I frequently have many 
projects going at once, and I just work on another while waiting for the 
boards to etch.

Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-18 by jr_dakota

I made one from a 5 buck plastic aquarium from Walmart and an old
aquarium air pump ... It has a plastic grate that goes in the bottom
so I took a piece of hard plastic tube, drilled a bunch of holes in it
and have it below the grate and run a flexible plastic hose between it
and the air pump .... one thing I also had to do was seal up the holes
in the lid but a piece of clear packing tape did the job with little
fuss ... i also rigged up some holders/hooks from some plastic I bent
with some heat to help position the PCBs

Worked out pretty well for me, I etched a PIC frequency counter PCB, 2
PCB's for a Pic n Mix, part of the boards for the PIC a STAR, and a
couple of boards for a digital milliwatt meter and only had to make
repairs to one board but that was due to the photo paper I was using
(Epsom Glossy Photo Paper) Most of the boards were made with Staples
Photo Basics Gloss (#471861) which has worked flawlessly for me so I'm
sticking with it

JR


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adi Linden <adiy@...> wrote:
>
> Will aquarium supplies do for building a DIY etching tank? I am thinking
> air pump, heater, air hoese, etc. I am torn between building a small
> vertical etch tank versus buying a microwave for heating small
quantities
> of etchant for sponging...
>

Laser cutting?

2006-11-18 by William Carr

I was just wondering...  Laser engravers are getting more common.    
Has there been a review on how well it works for PCB's ?


William

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-18 by Adam Seychell

Adi Linden wrote:
> 
> 
> Will aquarium supplies do for building a DIY etching tank? I am thinking
> air pump, heater, air hoese, etc. I am torn between building a small
> vertical etch tank versus buying a microwave for heating small quantities
> of etchant for sponging...
> 

Good question. I sometimes find the microwave/paintbrush approach does 
me fine for quick and dirty single sided PCBs. Not saying the etch 
quality is bad. I've messed around with bubble etchers over the years 
and found I could not get much better uniformity than the above method. 
Vertical immersion bubble benefits when you doing larger PCBs, > 100 x 
100mm (4"x4" for you Americans :) and you like to do something else 
while you wait.

As others have mentioned, you may not need to actually "build" your 
tank. There is bound to be something around that you can retrofit. You 
don't need air tight lid, just something to stop evaporation. Air hose 
can feed through a small hole somewhere at the top of the tank to allow 
use of the tank lid in a permanent setup arrangement.

Then of course there is the "float PCB on etchant surface" method, but 
in my experience this always left me with copper streaks and patterns 
that took much longer to etch. The result is poor uniformity, which 
causes some tracks to be over etched, especially the thin tacks.

Adam.

Re: Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-19 by Len Warner

At 2:25 pm ((PST)) Fri Nov 17, 2006, Christopher Hart wrote:
>On Friday 17 November 2006 11:32, Leon Heller wrote:
>[snip]
> > Why not use continous agitation for the larger boards by rocking the
> > container? They will only take about 10 minutes.
>That would require me watching the boards constantly. I frequently have many
>projects going at once, and I just work on another while waiting for the
>boards to etch.

There used to be a photographic darkroom aid for print-making which
rocked the dish to create wave motion to ensure even developing or
thorough fixing.

It should be a trivial exercise for most of us to rig up something similar
using a snail cam driven by a geared mains synchronous motor or a
barbecue spit motor.


Regards, LenW

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-19 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Len Warner" <yahoo@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:26 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Ultrasonic etching tank?


> At 2:25 pm ((PST)) Fri Nov 17, 2006, Christopher Hart wrote:
>>On Friday 17 November 2006 11:32, Leon Heller wrote:
>>[snip]
>> > Why not use continous agitation for the larger boards by rocking the
>> > container? They will only take about 10 minutes.
>>That would require me watching the boards constantly. I frequently have 
>>many
>>projects going at once, and I just work on another while waiting for the
>>boards to etch.
>
> There used to be a photographic darkroom aid for print-making which
> rocked the dish to create wave motion to ensure even developing or
> thorough fixing.
>
> It should be a trivial exercise for most of us to rig up something similar
> using a snail cam driven by a geared mains synchronous motor or a
> barbecue spit motor.

There used to be a design for something like that in the ARRL Handbook, 
using a small motor and eccentric cam, with the etchant kept warm with a 
heat lamp. Manual rocking in a larger container half-filled with hot water 
works very well and only takes a few minutes.

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Ultrasonic etching tank?

2006-11-19 by Stefan Trethan

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 12:26:14 +0100, Len Warner <yahoo@...>  
wrote:

> There used to be a photographic darkroom aid for print-making which
> rocked the dish to create wave motion to ensure even developing or
> thorough fixing.
> It should be a trivial exercise for most of us to rig up something  
> similar
> using a snail cam driven by a geared mains synchronous motor or a
> barbecue spit motor.
> Regards, LenW


Maybe one can also get something useful from medical surplus, i've seen  
such moving tables to agitate blood.
As you say should be dead easy to make anyway.
I'm glad i'm not the only one seeing the use in chicken-grill motors ;-)

ST

Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-19 by Len Warner

At 11:53 am ((PST)) Fri Nov 17, 2006, Adi Linden wrote:
>Will aquarium supplies do for building a DIY etching tank? I am thinking
>air pump, heater, air hoese, etc.

Be sure either to follow the pump directions and either install
a non-return valve in the airline or site the pump above the
liquid height.

Otherwise, since the pump delivers warm air, when you switch off
the contraction of the air cooling in the pipe-work may be enough
to start a syphon. Etchant is not likely to benefit your pump... :-(

Also, some types of air-stone may disintegrate in etchant, so you
may need to use a perforated pipe bubble distributor. You need very
small holes and lots of pressure drop across each hole: with large
holes and low pressure, surface tension will tend to bias the airflow
towards only a few of the holes. Using a thick-walled tube will help.

You could make a tank out of glass plates and aquarium silicone
but make sure the joint surfaces are properly cleaned and coated.
Stefan had a leak needing re-work:-  Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:29 am
"Re: Baffled by a bubbler baffle - what are you guys using?".

IIRC it was Stefan who reported elsewhere on 'rapid' epoxy degrading
in the _very_ long term. 24 hour epoxy has generally better chemical
resistance than rapid epoxy, which is especially poor on acid resistance.
There is a lot of stray HCl around with acidic etchants - it's a small
molecule that can penetrate some plastics and then wreak havoc.

>I am torn between building a small vertical etch tank versus
>buying a microwave for heating small quantities of etchant for sponging...

For _small_ quantities, specially buying a microwave seems a bit OTT.

Why not make a double-boiler by sitting a basin in the rim of a pan
of hot water, as for melting chocolate or making delicate sauces?

That shouldn't cost you any more than the price of a dedicated basin
  - nothing, if you can scrounge an old one ;-)

Alternatively (or if you need to transport your warmed etchant to
a cold workshop) you could drop a plastic bottle of etchant into
a bucket of hot water.

PET (fizzy drink bottles) will distort near boiling temperatures but
may prove perfectly usable for this. In a food application (kefir), I find
UK polythene milk bottles are tough enough to withstand microwave
steam sterilization but longer-term begin to crack at the seams
with handling and fermentation pressure. Again, they should prove
quite serviceable (and would be my choice because they are so
plentiful and the opening is larger) - but I wouldn't store etchant
long-term in a thin poly-bottle without a catch tray, just in case.

Of course, bigger plastic jerrican-style bottles are available but you
will need a larger bucket of hot water - unless the cap is large
enough for you to drop in an aquarium heater.

[Please ensure all poisonous liquids are clearly and indelibly labelled,
especially if brightly-coloured or in drinks-like containers, and kept
well out of sight and reach of young children - it's amazing what some
little tykes will consume as a last meal :-(( ... ]


Regards, LenW

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Adi Linden

> For _small_ quantities, specially buying a microwave seems a bit OTT.

There is no way I'll be 'cooking' FeCl in anything that will ever see food
again. So a dedicted microwave would be the only way to heat etchant in
small quantities.

The other item that has become pretty obvious that in my environment doing
board in the kitchen sink just doesn't work too well. No matter how
careful, there is always the possibility that something spills. I'd rather
not have any poison near my food preparing areas, period.

Looking at building an etch tank, from a cost perspective it is equal to
getting a small microwave. Having etched board in a ammonium persulfate
bubble bath many moons ago, I know it does work well. I never tried the
sponge method yet, but read it is supposed to be excellent. Problem is, I
don't have the confidence to play with FeCl in my stainless steel kitchen
sink...

Adi

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:32:10 +0100, Adi Linden <adiy@...> wrote:

> There is no way I'll be 'cooking' FeCl in anything that will ever see  
> food
> again. So a dedicted microwave would be the only way to heat etchant in
> small quantities.
> The other item that has become pretty obvious that in my environment  
> doing
> board in the kitchen sink just doesn't work too well. No matter how
> careful, there is always the possibility that something spills. I'd  
> rather
> not have any poison near my food preparing areas, period.
> Looking at building an etch tank, from a cost perspective it is equal to
> getting a small microwave. Having etched board in a ammonium persulfate
> bubble bath many moons ago, I know it does work well. I never tried the
> sponge method yet, but read it is supposed to be excellent. Problem is, I
> don't have the confidence to play with FeCl in my stainless steel kitchen
> sink...
> Adi


Nobody says microwave heating is required, or even preferred, for FeCl  
etching.
You can use just about any heat source and rig something up.
Also, you do not need to heat the ferric chloride if you don't want. You  
can use larger vessel on the outside in which you fill hot water (from the  
kitchen).
Aquarium heaters are often used, but i expect that electric foil heaters  
would work stuck to the side of a tank.
A few days ago i got a "get a free heater" leaflet from Minco,  
www.minco.com/freeheater. The promo code is H1016FH (it is bulk-printed  
with the leaflets so not an individual code). I think there were a few  
that would work, and free too!

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Roland F. Harriston

Duh!

FeCl will vaporize and eat away at the copper and other metals in the
microwave oven circuitry. Some vaporization or "misting" will take place
even if the FeCl is heated to a temperature below its boiling point.
FeCl is corrosive and toxic.

Heating FeCl is not what I would call an "intelligent" tactic
unless you have specialized equipment designed to do so.

Roland F. Harriston


Adi Linden wrote
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> > For _small_ quantities, specially buying a microwave seems a bit OTT.
>
> There is no way I'll be 'cooking' FeCl in anything that will ever see food
> again. So a dedicted microwave would be the only way to heat etchant in
> small quantities.
>
> The other item that has become pretty obvious that in my environment doing
> board in the kitchen sink just doesn't work too well. No matter how
> careful, there is always the possibility that something spills. I'd rather
> not have any poison near my food preparing areas, period.
>
> Looking at building an etch tank, from a cost perspective it is equal to
> getting a small microwave. Having etched board in a ammonium persulfate
> bubble bath many moons ago, I know it does work well. I never tried the
> sponge method yet, but read it is supposed to be excellent. Problem is, I
> don't have the confidence to play with FeCl in my stainless steel kitchen
> sink...
>
> Adi
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Roland F. Harriston

Most chemical reactions speed up when heat is applied. Chemistry 101.

Nearly all of the commercial/industrial
PCB etch tanks have heaters regardless of the etchant being used. 
Generally for hobby
use, heating the etchant to a few degrees above ambient increases the 
process significantly.
In the summer time here in southern Arizona when the ambient is often 
over 105 degrees F,
the heat gun gimmick becomes unnecessary.

I usually do my etching out on the back patio in free air to avoid 
contamination of the
household environment. I wave a heat gun over the surface of the etchant 
for a few
seconds to slightly raise the temperature. I use a glass (Pyrex) baking 
dish. With
hydrogen peroxide and muriatic acid, etch time is usually less than ten 
minutes,
rocking the dish constantly.
I neutralize the etchant with a copious amount of baking soda. After 
neutralization, I mix about 16 oz of etchant in a gallon tap water to 
dilute it  and pour it down the washtub drain in the garage. I never 
have any of this stuff actually in my living quarters.

HTH

Roland F. Harriston



Stefan Trethan wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:32:10 +0100, Adi Linden <adiy@...> wrote:
>
>   
>> There is no way I'll be 'cooking' FeCl in anything that will ever see  
>> food
>> again. So a dedicted microwave would be the only way to heat etchant in
>> small quantities.
>> The other item that has become pretty obvious that in my environment  
>> doing
>> board in the kitchen sink just doesn't work too well. No matter how
>> careful, there is always the possibility that something spills. I'd  
>> rather
>> not have any poison near my food preparing areas, period.
>> Looking at building an etch tank, from a cost perspective it is equal to
>> getting a small microwave. Having etched board in a ammonium persulfate
>> bubble bath many moons ago, I know it does work well. I never tried the
>> sponge method yet, but read it is supposed to be excellent. Problem is, I
>> don't have the confidence to play with FeCl in my stainless steel kitchen
>> sink...
>> Adi
>>     
>
>
> Nobody says microwave heating is required, or even preferred, for FeCl  
> etching.
> You can use just about any heat source and rig something up.
> Also, you do not need to heat the ferric chloride if you don't want. You  
> can use larger vessel on the outside in which you fill hot water (from the  
> kitchen).
> Aquarium heaters are often used, but i expect that electric foil heaters  
> would work stuck to the side of a tank.
> A few days ago i got a "get a free heater" leaflet from Minco,  
> www.minco.com/freeheater. The promo code is H1016FH (it is bulk-printed  
> with the leaflets so not an individual code). I think there were a few  
> that would work, and free too!
>
> ST
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:17:55 +0100, Roland F. Harriston  
<rolohar@...> wrote:

> I never
> have any of this stuff actually in my living quarters.
> HTH
> Roland F. Harriston


You'll probably have more dangerous substances under the kitchen sink than  
FeCl.

With CuCl heating is a bad idea because of the HCl fumes (low boiling  
point and lotsa fumes even below that).
Not an issue with FeCl, and that really benefits from the heating.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Edward Slatt

Where does Ammonium Persulfate rank with under the kitchen sink
substances in terms of danger?  The "Not in the house" post is a
little scary.

Ed Slatt
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 11/20/06, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:17:55 +0100, Roland F. Harriston
> <rolohar@...> wrote:
>
> > I never
> > have any of this stuff actually in my living quarters.
> > HTH
> > Roland F. Harriston
>
>
> You'll probably have more dangerous substances under the kitchen sink than
> FeCl.
>
> With CuCl heating is a bad idea because of the HCl fumes (low boiling
> point and lotsa fumes even below that).
> Not an issue with FeCl, and that really benefits from the heating.
>
> ST
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Lez

>. After
>  neutralization, I mix about 16 oz of etchant in a gallon tap water to
>  dilute it  and pour it down the washtub drain in the garage. I never
>  have any of this stuff actually in my living quarters.
>
>  HTH
>
>  Roland F. Harriston


Lol I use fe, etch in a tuppaware tub, never heat it just leave it at
ambient (15c) room and etching takes about 15-20 minutes, when I've
done I get my funnel and poor it back into the Dr pepper bottle, put
bottle in tuppaware tub and put top on, store for next use.

Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Andrew

Fresh Ferric Chloride (before having copper in it)
is probably less dangerous than stuff you have
in your drinks cabinet.

I know if I was offered a nice fresh cup of FeCl3
or a jagermeister <insert alcoholic beverege you
wish to diss here> which one I would take :D






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:17:55 +0100, Roland F. Harriston  
> <rolohar@...> wrote:
> 
> > I never
> > have any of this stuff actually in my living quarters.
> > HTH
> > Roland F. Harriston
> 
> 
> You'll probably have more dangerous substances under the kitchen
sink than  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> FeCl.
> 
> With CuCl heating is a bad idea because of the HCl fumes (low boiling  
> point and lotsa fumes even below that).
> Not an issue with FeCl, and that really benefits from the heating.
> 
> ST
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Lez

>
>  I know if I was offered a nice fresh cup of FeCl3
>  or a jagermeister <insert alcoholic beverege you
>  wish to diss here> which one I would take :D

Can I just take the vodka, I find after vodka I dont really care about
pcb's and fecl


Lez

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: DIY Etching Tank

2006-11-20 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:03:39 +0100, Edward Slatt <ed.slatt@...>  
wrote:

> Where does Ammonium Persulfate rank with under the kitchen sink
> substances in terms of danger?  The "Not in the house" post is a
> little scary.
> Ed Slatt


Both are similar, i think Xn in dry form and C as solution (but i'm not at  
all sure).

Not a problem at all if you handle them properly, don't make dust and  
inhale it, don't get in eyes, etc, etc.
If it's in a container there is no good reason not to keep it in the  
house. Of course proper storage must be observed (labels, no access to  
children etc.)

Give me that any day over stuff like petrol.

ST