Homebrew PCBs

Ok I had asked about direct toner print and was told of all the
possible problems with the HV static holding etc so I stuck with TT

well after doing all these boards
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/boards.jpg)to get 2 good
ones I decided I had had enough of TT.

SO, using a sheet of a4 as a carrier, I sent a sheet of tin foil /
baco foil / alu foil call it what you want, into the laser printer.

I put my fingers in my ears for the inevitable bang, and waited,
nothing, no error, paper fedd through......

Print quaility looks good to me, have a look here.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/


Now I need to modify the printer to flat path and I think I can just
feed boards through.

may need to build a carrier for small boards but it should be ok for
pieces of 8 inch in length as it is at the moment.

-- 

Lez

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Lez" <lez.briddon@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Direct toner print


> Ok I had asked about direct toner print and was told of all the
> possible problems with the HV static holding etc so I stuck with TT
>
> well after doing all these boards
> (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/boards.jpg)to get 2 good
> ones I decided I had had enough of TT.
>
> SO, using a sheet of a4 as a carrier, I sent a sheet of tin foil /
> baco foil / alu foil call it what you want, into the laser printer.
>
> I put my fingers in my ears for the inevitable bang, and waited,
> nothing, no error, paper fedd through......
>
> Print quaility looks good to me, have a look here.
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/
>
>
> Now I need to modify the printer to flat path and I think I can just
> feed boards through.
>
> may need to build a carrier for small boards but it should be ok for
> pieces of 8 inch in length as it is at the moment.

I think I've mentioned this before: Xerox had a technique for making PCBs 
from 1:1 artwork using their original flat-plate copying system. When I 
worked for Rank-Xerox (UK) some colleagues of mine tried it, and it worked 
quite well. I think that the toner pattern was transferred first from the 
photoreceptor plate to a sheet of paper, and then to the copper surface. It 
was then fused. The technique was also useful for copying images from old 
prints and photographs onto copper plates, to produce nice-looking 
decorative pictures that could be framed. My boss did that once for his 
favourite pub, copying an old photo of the building. They weren't etched, 
the black toner gave a nice contrast against the polished copper.

Leon

On 16/11/06, Leon Heller <leon.heller@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Lez" <lez.briddon@...>
>  To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>  Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:23 AM
>  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Direct toner print
>
>  > Ok I had asked about direct toner print and was told of all the
>  > possible problems with the HV static holding etc so I stuck with TT
>  >
>  > well after doing all these boards
>  > (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/boards.jpg)to get 2 good
>  > ones I decided I had had enough of TT.
>  >
>  > SO, using a sheet of a4 as a carrier, I sent a sheet of tin foil /
>  > baco foil / alu foil call it what you want, into the laser printer.
>  >
>  > I put my fingers in my ears for the inevitable bang, and waited,
>  > nothing, no error, paper fedd through......
>  >
>  > Print quaility looks good to me, have a look here.
>  >
>  > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/
>  >
>  >
>  > Now I need to modify the printer to flat path and I think I can just
>  > feed boards through.
>  >
>  > may need to build a carrier for small boards but it should be ok for
>  > pieces of 8 inch in length as it is at the moment.
>
>  I think I've mentioned this before:

Yup.

>  quite well. I think that the toner pattern was transferred first from the
>  photoreceptor plate to a sheet of paper, and then to the copper surface. It
>  was then fused. The technique was also useful for copying images from old

But I was thinking it may not be needed, and as the photo's show, it worked!

>  prints and photographs onto copper plates, to produce nice-looking
>  decorative pictures that could be framed. My boss did that once for his

Yes as a sideline when not doing PCB's we can now do nameplates.........

I have since the earlier post removed the cover from the printer, it's
going to be a tough job making it 100% flat path, as some parts are
connected by cogs etc, but maybe I can go to chain drive......

Anyhow, the printer wont work at the moment, says paper jam so I must
have knocked something, just downloading repair manual.............ho
hum.

Lez

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:23:57 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> Print quaility looks good to me, have a look here.
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/
> Now I need to modify the printer to flat path and I think I can just
> feed boards through.
> may need to build a carrier for small boards but it should be ok for
> pieces of 8 inch in length as it is at the moment.
>


We've been there, done that. I'd have told you if you had asked ;-)

The problem is you only transfer toner "by chance" now, half or more than  
half of it stays on the drum.

Nobody could ever get nearly enough toner on the metal to act as a resist  
without holes.

I'm all for new ideas and experiments, otherwise there will be no  
development, so good luck!

ST

On 16/11/06, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:23:57 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Print quaility looks good to me, have a look here.
> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tinabriddon/pcb/
> > Now I need to modify the printer to flat path and I think I can just
> > feed boards through.
> > may need to build a carrier for small boards but it should be ok for
> > pieces of 8 inch in length as it is at the moment.
> >
>
>
> We've been there, done that. I'd have told you if you had asked ;-)
>
> The problem is you only transfer toner "by chance" now, half or more than
> half of it stays on the drum.

Well with phot ret turned off, darkness set to 5 and image enhance
off, I get very dark tracks on the ally foil, but I cant get copper
through, it wont bend enough.

I have stripped the printer down and decided I dont know enough about
laser printers to go any further, I have put it back together and
watched it print 15 sheets of black paper with odd patterns as I sat
in horro that I had bust something, then the 16th sheet was
normal......

These are a black art these printers.

Anyhow, If I can get a sheet of board that will flex enough to go
through, it looks to me like I would get a very very good etch.

I have noticed in this group, that some laser printers do better than
others, and some toners are better than others, and I hate to sound
like I'm bragging but I think I have one of the best toners and best
printers for direct print, until the toner runs out.........

I may try to strip some copper off a board, and tape the copper to a
paper carrier, print it, then peel off the paper and epoxy it back
onto the fibreglass to etch

Anyhow that will have to wait till mid week, car show today, house
cleaning tomorro, and trying to find a job on monday

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 14:42:53 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> Anyhow, If I can get a sheet of board that will flex enough to go
> through, it looks to me like I would get a very very good etch.


Just etch the aluminum foil. Stick tape to the back to protect it.
Use little etchant and dispose, since the AL might not be great in your  
regular etchant.

It ain't gonna work.
I'd be happy to eat my words if it does, but it's not gonna happen.

ST

> Just etch the aluminum foil. Stick tape to the back to protect it.
> Use little etchant and dispose, since the AL might not be great in your
> regular etchant.
>
> It ain't gonna work.
> I'd be happy to eat my words if it does, but it's not gonna happen.
>
> ST


Worth a try tomorro, I'll have time for that....