Homebrew PCBs

I have got to the end of the road with this plotter.

I have made a few test cables, I have bought a rs232 dongle with LEDS
in so I can see whats going on, and I can see the data light flash
when I hold a key down in hyperterminal.

I have tried 3 wires, which is fine for pc, i have connected the
handshake pins back to themselves (6,8,20) (4,5) at the plotter end.

It echos nothing back, I can drive the pen aorund with the arrow keys
on the plotters front panel but I see nothing out the serial port,
maybe I should, maybe I shouldnt.

I know it works as when I bought it I held down a key(or 2) and it was
off drawing a self test on the bed without paper in, I cant do that
now I cant remember how I did it!

But if I interrupt the travel of the pen, it stops and flashes the
error light, so all self tests seem fine.


So last thing I can think to do is to 'copy' a genuine 'cpgl' or
'ccgl' file to com1:

Has anyone got such a file, just to plot a square or triangle, nothing huge etc.

-- 

Lez

On Saturday 11 November 2006 19:17, Lez wrote:

...

> So last thing I can think to do is to 'copy' a genuine 'cpgl' or
> 'ccgl' file to com1:
>
> Has anyone got such a file, just to plot a square or triangle, nothing huge
> etc.

Try Eagle PCB. It can output files in CALCOMP, CALCOMPE and CALCOMP_M84 
formats, as stated in his "CAM Processor" utility. Dunno what format will 
work with your plotter.

I can email you some of these files if you wish. Please let me know.

--- Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> I have got to the end of the road with this plotter.
> 
> I have made a few test cables, I have bought a rs232
> dongle with LEDS
> in so I can see whats going on, and I can see the
> data light flash
> when I hold a key down in hyperterminal.
> 
> I have tried 3 wires, which is fine for pc, i have
> connected the
> handshake pins back to themselves (6,8,20) (4,5) at
> the plotter end.
> 
> It echos nothing back, I can drive the pen aorund
> with the arrow keys
> on the plotters front panel but I see nothing out
> the serial port,
> maybe I should, maybe I shouldnt.
> 
> I know it works as when I bought it I held down a
> key(or 2) and it was
> off drawing a self test on the bed without paper in,
> I cant do that
> now I cant remember how I did it!
> 
> But if I interrupt the travel of the pen, it stops
> and flashes the
> error light, so all self tests seem fine.
> 
> 
> So last thing I can think to do is to 'copy' a
> genuine 'cpgl' or
> 'ccgl' file to com1:
> 
> Has anyone got such a file, just to plot a square or
> triangle, nothing huge etc.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Lez
> 

You also need to set stuff like bitrate, parity and
stop-bit. Have you tried searching for the manual
on-line?

Your favourite PCB package should be able to output
HPGL. Then, once you find the correct protocol
settings, open a command window and type "copy
mypcb.hpg com1:" to see what happens.

Which reminds me, trying to access it via
hyperterminal may not be a good diagnostic. They're
simpleminded beasts and pretty much ignore any
commands they don't recognize.

If you can find the hpgl syntax on-line you may try to
type in some commands.

But the first thing is to find the correct protocol
settings.

- YD.



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com

I wound up getting my plotter to work with the supplied drivers by using 
an older version of pscrpt.dll.

As far as your problems go, I believe some plotters require a start 
command (Ctrl-D, I believe). The drivers for my plotter have a "Send 
Ctrl-D before printing" option. It must be there for a reason.
In any case, don't give up because you have no luck. It's possible that 
there is a specific set of commands required to initialize the plotter.

I would suggest trying to find a manual for the plotter.

Fake_Name


If you still can't get anywhere, I'll take the plotter off you hands for 
you. ; )
If nothing else, it would be a good test base for learning CNC control 
system design and control.

I'll try with eagle later, just tried winline and no response.

To recap, I made a 3 wire cable, and the PC is sending, I checked this
with a dongle with LED's that monitor the lines, I can 'see' data, one
thing that was odd is thatthe calcomp requires 2-2 and 3-3, not 2-3
and 3-2

I tried it with 6-8-20 connected, and without.

In all the times I sent data to it, it never sent anything back, the
LED never flashed, just stays green, the PC side led is gren, but
flashes red/green with data

It has a switch for ccgl / cpgl, it wont like hpgl so I believe after
hours (an whole evening) of google-ing

Dips switches are used for baud/parity etc so I know thats right, its
printed on the back of the printer!

I did once get a built in test print out of it, but cant remember how,
it was not connected to a pc at the time, just power.

I cant call it dead until I have sent it data I /know/ to be good, but
its looking that way, as though its com's side is 'down' but
mechanically its fine and performs a selftest when switched on, moving
the pen to top/bottom corners etc.






Lez

The 2-2 and 3-3 connection is a straight through connection. This kind of connection is for 2 dissimilar devices to communicate, ie Data Terminal Equipment (DTE) and Data Communication Equipment (DCE). If you have 2 similar devece ie DCE to DCE or DTE to DTE you will need a 2-3 and 3-2 cable this is a crossover cable. From what you have posted it sounds like you are using a crossover cable and this would be the wrong one. Try a straight through cable. The PC is a DTE and the Plotter is a DCE you should need a 2-2 and 3-3 straight through cable. The hardware ie. plotter and PC in this case determine the type of cable required for communication not a file standard.

Here is an ascii version of the wiring diagram for each standard
DCE     to     DCE
             or
DTE      to     DTE
1____________1
2_____     ____2     This is a crossover cable (sounds like you are using this cable)
3_____ X ____3

DCE    to     DTE
            or
DTE     to    DCE
1____________1
2____________2    This is a straight through cable (this is the cable you should be using)
3____________3
Heres a link to all kinds of information on different cable configurations.
http://www.arcelect.com/rs232.htm

Now I have read a few paople mention specific things required for communication for the 2 devices to be established. Both devices need to be configured the same. You need to set Bit Rate/baud rate (or plainly said as transfer speed), start and stop bits, byte size, and parity. If all of these perameters are not defined the same on both devices communication will not be possible.

Here is a website I found that will explain the communication between 2 serial devices quite well.
http://cnx.org/content/m12293/latest/

I hope this will help you understand how a serial port work a little better, and I also hope I dont affend you by telling you something you already know. But it seems the problem is with the way your PC is communicating or not communicationg with the plotter.

Good Luck and Dont Give Up,
Jesse

----- Original Message ----
From: Lez <lez.briddon@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:21:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] I need a 'file' in cpgl or ccgl

I'll try with eagle later, just tried winline and no response.

To recap, I made a 3 wire cable, and the PC is sending, I checked this
with a dongle with LED's that monitor the lines, I can 'see' data, one
thing that was odd is thatthe calcomp requires 2-2 and 3-3, not 2-3
and 3-2

I tried it with 6-8-20 connected, and without.

In all the times I sent data to it, it never sent anything back, the
LED never flashed, just stays green, the PC side led is gren, but
flashes red/green with data

It has a switch for ccgl / cpgl, it wont like hpgl so I believe after
hours (an whole evening) of google-ing

Dips switches are used for baud/parity etc so I know thats right, its
printed on the back of the printer!

I did once get a built in test print out of it, but cant remember how,
it was not connected to a pc at the time, just power.

I cant call it dead until I have sent it data I /know/ to be good, but
its looking that way, as though its com's side is 'down' but
mechanically its fine and performs a selftest when switched on, moving
the pen to top/bottom corners etc.

Lez



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>  Here is an ascii version of the wiring diagram for each standard
>  DCE     to     DCE
>               or
>  DTE      to     DTE
>  1____________1
>  2_____     ____2     This is a crossover cable (sounds like you are using this cable)
>  3_____ X ____3
>

emm, no ground ?

Ok I'll try connecting pin1 to pin1, and with/without ground.

As to crossover 2-3 3-2, that wont work, it needs 2-2 and 3-3 this has
been proven by the dongle with led's

When I plug the dongle into the plotter the led on TxD goes green, the
led's on RTS and DTR go red, Idont know what the different colours
mean, but it gives me a clue as to what lines are actually connected.

You notice thats its the TxD led that lights up, not RxD, so I swapped
the wires on my cable so when I plug it into the dongle it lights up
the RxD light, with the cable plugged into the dongle and also into
the plotter, both RxD and TxD lights are green.
When I send data the RxD(pc) led flashes, the TxD(plot) does not change.





Lez

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
> I have got to the end of the road with this plotter.
> 
> I have made a few test cables, I have bought a rs232 dongle with 
LEDS
> in so I can see whats going on, and I can see the data light flash
> when I hold a key down in hyperterminal.
> 
> Lez
>

The issue you're having MIGHT be Hypertreminal. 
I had a problem the other night with a BasicStamp / Pic > 
PC serial comm. project I'm working on. After hours of 
banging my head on the wall and doing some research, 
it turns out that Hyperterminal asserts (turns on) the RS232 
DTR signal (in my case that was forcing my microC into 
constant reset condition) . I found MY solution in "RealTerm"
(http://realterm.sourceforge.net/) it is a terminal program that lets
you set or clear almost all of the signals. 
You might want to give it a try.

Maybe its time to pop it open- see if you can trace the serial signal
from the connector into the innards of the plotter? I doubt it has a
blown Max232 interface chip, but you might see something out of whack...

.--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
> I have got to the end of the road with this plotter.
> 
> I have made a few test cables, I have bought a rs232 dongle with LEDS
> in so I can see whats going on, and I can see the data light flash
> when I hold a key down in hyperterminal.
> 
> I have tried 3 wires, which is fine for pc, i have connected the
> handshake pins back to themselves (6,8,20) (4,5) at the plotter end.
> 
> It echos nothing back, I can drive the pen aorund with the arrow keys
> on the plotters front panel but I see nothing out the serial port,
> maybe I should, maybe I shouldnt.
> 
> I know it works as when I bought it I held down a key(or 2) and it was
> off drawing a self test on the bed without paper in, I cant do that
> now I cant remember how I did it!
> 
> But if I interrupt the travel of the pen, it stops and flashes the
> error light, so all self tests seem fine.
> 
> 
> So last thing I can think to do is to 'copy' a genuine 'cpgl' or
> 'ccgl' file to com1:
> 
> Has anyone got such a file, just to plot a square or triangle,
nothing huge etc.

> 
> -- 
> 
> Lez
>

On 14/11/06, Scott Monsma <samonsma@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maybe its time to pop it open- see if you can trace the serial signal
>  from the connector into the innards of the plotter? I doubt it has a
>  blown Max232 interface chip, but you might see something out of whack...

Yeah none of its pins seems to change state no matter what I put into
it, it does have another connector, a round one 8 pins, like old hifi
tapedecks used, I suppose that was for 'other' formats of PC, but dont
know what it is its not labled.




Lez

Given the vintage of this thing, you will be looking for 1488 and 
1489 (TTL <-> RS232 level convertor chips) chips. Try putting a 
scope on the TTL data lines that are coming from the PC.  See if you 
are getting anything on the other side of the RS232 receiver chip. 

Did you ever find a manual on this thing?  So you know how to set 
the baud rate switches? 

Jim

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
> On 14/11/06, Scott Monsma <samonsma@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe its time to pop it open- see if you can trace the serial 
signal
> >  from the connector into the innards of the plotter? I doubt it 
has a
> >  blown Max232 interface chip, but you might see something out of 
whack...
> 
> Yeah none of its pins seems to change state no matter what I put 
into
> it, it does have another connector, a round one 8 pins, like old 
hifi
> tapedecks used, I suppose that was for 'other' formats of PC, but 
dont

> know what it is its not labled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lez
>

On 15/11/06, jzmuda2000 <hwhacker@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Given the vintage of this thing, you will be looking for 1488 and
>  1489 (TTL <-> RS232 level convertor chips) chips. Try putting a
>  scope on the TTL data lines that are coming from the PC.  See if you
>  are getting anything on the other side of the RS232 receiver chip.
>
>  Did you ever find a manual on this thing?  So you know how to set
>  the baud rate switches?
>
>  Jim
>

I'l change the chip, it does have a 1488 but no 1489, some transistors.

It has pin 20 connected to them so its using at least one handshake.

Baud rate etc is on dip switches and the settings are printed on the
back for 300 upto 9600

Lez