Homebrew_PCBs

----- Original Message -----
From: "MM" <T_dragger44@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 7:50 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB design software


> Hello to all... New member here and not real knowledgeable regarding PCBs
but am hoping to learn. If you guys can stand a few "neophyte" type
questions for a while, I would be most appreciative.
>
> I joined because I am wanting to learn how to design and build a few
simple, small boards; initially just two-sided, plated hole boards. Not
sure I really want to actually make them at first, may want to just send the
design off to a prototyping house to have them made in very small
quantities.
>
> Can anyone recommend a good, but fairly inexpensive, "starter" software
program that I could learn to use and would produce the file types (whatever
they are) that are compatible for PCB manufacture? Later on I may need to
upgrade to something more sophisticated, but for now, I'd like to keep it
pretty simple and not too expensive.
>
> Thanks,
> Monte
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

>From: "MM" <T_dragger44@...>
>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB design software
>Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:50:44 -0500
>
>Hello to all... New member here and not real knowledgeable regarding PCBs
>but am hoping to learn. If you guys can stand a few "neophyte" type
>questions for a while, I would be most appreciative.
>
>I joined because I am wanting to learn how to design and build a few
>simple, small boards; initially just two-sided, plated hole boards. Not
>sure I really want to actually make them at first, may want to just send
>the design off to a prototyping house to have them made in very small
>quantities.
>
>Can anyone recommend a good, but fairly inexpensive, "starter" software
>program that I could learn to use and would produce the file types
>(whatever they are) that are compatible for PCB manufacture? Later on I
>may need to upgrade to something more sophisticated, but for now, I'd like
>to keep it pretty simple and not too expensive.

> From: "MM" <T_dragger44@...>
>
> >Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB design software
> >Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:50:44 -0500
> >
> >Hello to all... New member here and not real knowledgeable regarding PCBs
> >but am hoping to learn. If you guys can stand a few "neophyte" type
> >questions for a while, I would be most appreciative.
> >
> >I joined because I am wanting to learn how to design and build a few
> >simple, small boards; initially just two-sided, plated hole boards. Not
> >sure I really want to actually make them at first, may want to just send
> >the design off to a prototyping house to have them made in very small
> >quantities.
> >
> >Can anyone recommend a good, but fairly inexpensive, "starter" software
> >program that I could learn to use and would produce the file types
> >(whatever they are) that are compatible for PCB manufacture? Later on I
> >may need to upgrade to something more sophisticated, but for now, I'd like
> >to keep it pretty simple and not too expensive.
>
> Easy-PC is very good, I used it for years:
>
> http://www.numberone.com
>
> I now use Pulsonix which is a professional product from the same company:
>
> http://www.pulsoniox.com

>Hello to all... New member here and not real knowledgeable regarding PCBs but am hoping to learn. If you guys can stand a few "neophyte" type questions for a while, I would be most appreciative.
>
>I joined because I am wanting to learn how to design and build a few simple, small boards; initially just two-sided, plated hole boards. Not sure I really want to actually make them at first, may want to just send the design off to a prototyping house to have them made in very small quantities.
>
>Can anyone recommend a good, but fairly inexpensive, "starter" software program that I could learn to use and would produce the file types (whatever they are) that are compatible for PCB manufacture? Later on I may need to upgrade to something more sophisticated, but for now, I'd like to keep it pretty simple and not too expensive.
>
>Thanks,
>Monte
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <m.zingg@n...> wrote:
> Check out autotrax. Pretty powerfull and - belive it or not -
> completely free!
>
> http://www.autotraxeda.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "tamerlane221" <T_dragger44@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software


> Markus,
> Thank you for the pointer to AutoTRAX. I actually ended up with a
> number of suggestions from folks on this list but, since you suggested
> that AutoTRAX is fairly new, I thought I'd give it a try. I'm not
> sure I understand why these software companies make their product
> available for nothing; what's up with that? Is the competition in
> this market extremely strong?
>
> I don't really know how to assess one PCB design software package
> against another since I don't know enough about how to build a board.
> So, I'll get a copy of AutoTRAX and try to let the group know if I
> discover anything interesting.
>
> Thanks again for the help....
> Monte
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <m.zingg@n...> wrote:
> > Check out autotrax. Pretty powerfull and - belive it or not -
> > completely free!
> >
> > http://www.autotraxeda.com/
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>Markus,
> Thank you for the pointer to AutoTRAX. I actually ended up with a
>number of suggestions from folks on this list but, since you suggested
>that AutoTRAX is fairly new, I thought I'd give it a try. I'm not
>sure I understand why these software companies make their product
>available for nothing; what's up with that? Is the competition in
>this market extremely strong?

>I don't really know how to assess one PCB design software package
>against another since I don't know enough about how to build a board.
> So, I'll get a copy of AutoTRAX and try to let the group know if I
>discover anything interesting.

>Thanks again for the help....
>Monte
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <m.zingg@n...> wrote:
>> Check out autotrax. Pretty powerfull and - belive it or not -
>> completely free!
>>
>> http://www.autotraxeda.com/
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

>From: Chris Graham <Chrisgr@...>
>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software
>Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:53:46 -0700
>
>Here's my experience with AutoTrax:
>
>I tried Autotrax, and it crashed on me a few times, and I lost my work. I'm
>using Windows XP Professional, so maybe it's more stable on other versions
>of Windows. I also got the impression that its parts libraries were very
>limited, although maybe I didn't search hard enough for them.

>Here's my experience with AutoTrax:
>
>I tried Autotrax, and it crashed on me a few times, and I lost my work. I'm
>using Windows XP Professional, so maybe it's more stable on other versions
>of Windows.

>I also got the impression that its parts libraries were very
>limited, although maybe I didn't search hard enough for them.

>In the end I switched back to Eagle. Admittedly Eagle crashed on me a few
>times also at first, but once I set it to use "vector fonts always", it has
>been rock solid. This was suggested on their support forum. The support is
>excellent, even if you are using the free version.

>- Chris Graham
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "tamerlane221" <T_dragger44@...>
>To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:41 PM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software
>
>
>> Markus,
>> Thank you for the pointer to AutoTRAX. I actually ended up with a
>> number of suggestions from folks on this list but, since you suggested
>> that AutoTRAX is fairly new, I thought I'd give it a try. I'm not
>> sure I understand why these software companies make their product
>> available for nothing; what's up with that? Is the competition in
>> this market extremely strong?
>>
>> I don't really know how to assess one PCB design software package
>> against another since I don't know enough about how to build a board.
>> So, I'll get a copy of AutoTRAX and try to let the group know if I
>> discover anything interesting.
>>
>> Thanks again for the help....
>> Monte
>>
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <m.zingg@n...> wrote:
>> > Check out autotrax. Pretty powerfull and - belive it or not -
>> > completely free!
>> >
>> > http://www.autotraxeda.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

>>I tried Autotrax, and it crashed on me a few times, and I lost my work. I'm
>>using Windows XP Professional, so maybe it's more stable on other versions
>>of Windows. I also got the impression that its parts libraries were very
>>limited, although maybe I didn't search hard enough for them.
>
>
>Someone on the amateur radio QRP list tried it and considered it was
>unusable, because of all the bugs. He didn't get any response when he posted
>details of the problems to the support mailing list.

>>>I tried Autotrax, and it crashed on me a few times, and I lost my work. I'm
>>>using Windows XP Professional, so maybe it's more stable on other versions
>>>of Windows. I also got the impression that its parts libraries were very
>>>limited, although maybe I didn't search hard enough for them.
>>
>>
>>Someone on the amateur radio QRP list tried it and considered it was
>>unusable, because of all the bugs. He didn't get any response when he posted
>>details of the problems to the support mailing list.
>
>Ok, I do not intend to become Mr. "Autotrax" here :-) but I was
>readign the support list for a few weeks and really got the impression
>that the developper is responsive, and patches and fixes were made
>available fairly quickly. Maybe someone on the list want's to check if
>things are meanwhile better?
>
>Markus
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> may any autotrax user here tell me if it is possible with this
> software to generate hpgl(1) files?
> for direct plotting...
>
> i found nothing about that in the online manual.
> the software is scheduled for download but i only have a slow modem
> connection.
>
> is there hpgl export in eagle?
>
> regards
> stefan
>

>On Mon, 2003-05-12 at 04:40, Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> may any autotrax user here tell me if it is possible with this
>> software to generate hpgl(1) files?
>> for direct plotting...
>>
>> i found nothing about that in the online manual.
>> the software is scheduled for download but i only have a slow modem
>> connection.
>>
>> is there hpgl export in eagle?
>>
>> regards
>> stefan
>>
> Yes (in Eagle). I'm using it with a HP 7550A and it works great. The
>only missing option you can't set is the force used; speed, pen width,
>and pen are all available settings.
>
>Larry
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> Yes (in Eagle). I'm using it with a HP 7550A and it works great.
> The only missing option you can't set is the force used; speed,
> pen width, and pen are all available settings.

>On Monday 12 May 2003 07:37 am, Larry Battraw wrote:
>> Yes (in Eagle). I'm using it with a HP 7550A and it works great.
>> The only missing option you can't set is the force used; speed,
>> pen width, and pen are all available settings.
>
>You can edit what gets sent to the printer/plotter if you want, as I
>recall. At least in the Gerber and drill output, there are files with
>specifications of how to output the files.
>
>You could just change the HPGL code for the force in that file.
>--
>Ned Konz
>http://bike-nomad.com
>GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software
>Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:27:21 +0200
>
>i have downloaded eagle.
>i only tried it some minutes but it seems less powerful than orcad which i
>use now.
>
>the problem is it also doesn't keep the drill holes open for me.
>
>you simply can edit the hpgl file to set the force, my plotter doesn't
>support setting the force so i
>never tried this. hpgl commands are very easy (similar to cnc commands).
>there is much documentation on
>the web.
>
>so i see i will maybe never get it to produce open drill holes (but i would
>really like this).
>for the moment i will stay with orcad as it inculdes pspice simulation. but
>when making the next simple
>pcb i will try it with eagle.
>

>From: JGraham <jgraham@...>
>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software
>Date: 12 May 2003 10:33:08 -0700
>
>First a little background:
>I've been using Autotrax EDA as well, and it seems ok. I've also tried
>eagle and vutrax. All three don't really seem to meet my needs.
>There also seems to be a wealth of gnu/linux software out there gEDA,
>XRoadMaker, PCB, etc. here's a list.
>(http://www.opencollector.org/summary.php3#PCB)
>
>Ive also given altium protel DXP a shot. The only package that i've not
>tried is Orcad.
>
>My question is, what is standard for design. in industry and for
>basement engineers. Are some more cross compatible than others? Are
>there autorouters out there that actually work? Are there any really
>complete schematic/footprint libriaries? or are most parts done in
>house?

> so i see i will maybe never get it to produce open drill holes (but
> i would really like this). for the moment i will stay with orcad as
> it inculdes pspice simulation. but when making the next simple pcb
> i will try it with eagle.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Konz" <ned@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software


> On Monday 12 May 2003 10:27 am, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> > so i see i will maybe never get it to produce open drill holes (but
> > i would really like this). for the moment i will stay with orcad as
> > it inculdes pspice simulation. but when making the next simple pcb
> > i will try it with eagle.
>
> What do you mean by "open drill holes"?

I think he means that the holes are shown on the artwork. Photoplots
generated from Gerber files usually don't have the holes shown, as they are
irrelevant for automatic drilling from Excellon drill files.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
leon_heller@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

>
>
>
>
>>From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
>>Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software
>>Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:27:21 +0200
>>
>>i have downloaded eagle.
>>i only tried it some minutes but it seems less powerful than orcad which i
>>use now.
>>
>>the problem is it also doesn't keep the drill holes open for me.
>>
>>you simply can edit the hpgl file to set the force, my plotter doesn't
>>support setting the force so i
>>never tried this. hpgl commands are very easy (similar to cnc commands).
>>there is much documentation on
>>the web.
>>
>>so i see i will maybe never get it to produce open drill holes (but i would
>>really like this).
>>for the moment i will stay with orcad as it inculdes pspice simulation. but
>>when making the next simple
>>pcb i will try it with eagle.
>>
>
>
>Pulsonix, which I use, can output HPGL, and has an option for drill holes:
>
>http://www.pulsonix.com
>
>It's a lot easier to use then Orcad and has fewer bugs.
>
>Pulsonix SPICE (actually Newbury Technology's SIMetrix SPICE) is better than
>PSPICE.
>
>
>Leon
>--
>Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: +44 1424 423947
>Email:leon_heller@...
>My web page: http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!
>http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>On Monday 12 May 2003 10:27 am, Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> so i see i will maybe never get it to produce open drill holes (but
>> i would really like this). for the moment i will stay with orcad as
>> it inculdes pspice simulation. but when making the next simple pcb
>> i will try it with eagle.
>
>What do you mean by "open drill holes"?
>
>--
>Ned Konz
>http://bike-nomad.com
>GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> i have downloaded eagle.
> i only tried it some minutes but it seems less powerful than orcad
> which i use now.
>
> the problem is it also doesn't keep the drill holes open for me.
>
> you simply can edit the hpgl file to set the force, my plotter doesn't
> support setting the force so i
> never tried this. hpgl commands are very easy (similar to cnc
> commands). there is much documentation on
> the web.

> one method to get the drill holes open may be to find a converter tool
> which converts some printer
> format (pcl, ps, maybe pdf) or a plain image to a hpgl (1) file. this
> should be one which sets the outer
> lines to fill the dark areas exactly and fills in between. i have
> searched such a tool quite a while,
> all results i got were very, very poor, if i got a output file at all.

>
> if anyone knows a converter please write.
>
> the advantage of a converter is that i do get printer files (b/w)
> which have the holes open but i don't
> get plotter files.
>
> thanks for the tip with eagle.
>

>On Mon, 2003-05-12 at 10:27, Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> i have downloaded eagle.
>> i only tried it some minutes but it seems less powerful than orcad
>> which i use now.
>>
>> the problem is it also doesn't keep the drill holes open for me.
>>
>> you simply can edit the hpgl file to set the force, my plotter doesn't
>> support setting the force so i
>> never tried this. hpgl commands are very easy (similar to cnc
>> commands). there is much documentation on
>> the web.
>
> Yes, that's what I do currently.
>
>
>> one method to get the drill holes open may be to find a converter tool
>> which converts some printer
>> format (pcl, ps, maybe pdf) or a plain image to a hpgl (1) file. this
>> should be one which sets the outer
>> lines to fill the dark areas exactly and fills in between. i have
>> searched such a tool quite a while,
>> all results i got were very, very poor, if i got a output file at all.
>
> I tried just that, using a package called "pstoedit", which will
>convert postscript (and other vector formats) to a wide range of output
>formats, including HPGL. The problem is, postscript is a _lot_ smarter
>than hpgl. For example, I wanted to be able to try the "scratch and
>etch" method for making a PCB, so I needed a negative of the output.
>Eagle has an "inverted PS" option for output, which I used as an input
>to pstoedit for producing HPGL. The problem is, the way it does this is
>to print a black rectangle and then draw the traces in white. The HPGL
>output attempted to reproduce this by printing a filled rectangle and
>then drawing the traces in another color on top of it. Didn't work too
>well obviously. Similarly, the only way to handle pads with unfilled
>drill holes would be to draw X number of concentric circles (each a pen
>diameter smaller) until the resulting unfilled area was the correct
>size. HPGL does have a filled circle command as far as I know, but you
>can't subtract out polygons/arcs from the fill.
>
>>
>> if anyone knows a converter please write.
>>
>> the advantage of a converter is that i do get printer files (b/w)
>> which have the holes open but i don't
>> get plotter files.
>>
>> thanks for the tip with eagle.
>>
>
> Incidentally, it is possible to print PS output with non-filled drill
>holes. I just made a PCB that way the other day. It's a matter of
>fooling around with which layers get plotted in the CAM processor, and I
>can't remember which layers need to be turned off.
>
>Larry
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> i also tried pstoedit.
> same results.
>
> the reason for plotting to ps with correct holes is maybe that it is
> done only b/w.
> so the software has no excuse like "oh, lets try another color" and
> the programmers had to get it right.
>
> ((( question: ps is vector or raster? )))
>
> regards
> stefan
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software


> hmm i have two questions on that:
>
> a) does it keep the holes really open?
> my orcad has also such a option but when i make hpgl export it simply does
"negative" drawing (with
> another pen in plotter) which "deletes" the center out. this is because
this is done so with negative
> areas in the apertures. it actually has two layers for each physical
layer, on containing positive, one
> negative information if you select "keep drill holes open".

The HPGL output has a few problems when imported into GC-Prevue (I don't
have a plotter) but the holes are there, as I expected.



> if you have the software installed may you please take a simple pcb and
make me a hpgl file with one
> copper layer and the pads on it? this would be very great as i could see
if it would work without having
> all the trouble of getting it, installing, etc...
> you may directly email it to stefan_trethan@... or upload it at yahoo
if anyone else wants to see.
> i would very appreciate this if possible....
> please meke sure if you can provide the file there is at least one pad and
one copper trace connected to
> one pad (sometimes the hole in the pad is there but the trace "sticks" in
there to the middle.

I've sent the file to Stefan.


>
>
> b) is there a way to get the software, lets call it "cheap", for private
use ?


You can download a demo, limited to 100 pins.

It's quite expensive to buy ($1000 upwards). EasyPC (same company but
different web site) is a lot cheaper, but less capable. It will also output
HPGL.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
leon_heller@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
>To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software
>
>
>> hmm i have two questions on that:
>>
>> a) does it keep the holes really open?
>> my orcad has also such a option but when i make hpgl export it simply does
>"negative" drawing (with
>> another pen in plotter) which "deletes" the center out. this is because
>this is done so with negative
>> areas in the apertures. it actually has two layers for each physical
>layer, on containing positive, one
>> negative information if you select "keep drill holes open".
>
>The HPGL output has a few problems when imported into GC-Prevue (I don't
>have a plotter) but the holes are there, as I expected.
>
>
>
>> if you have the software installed may you please take a simple pcb and
>make me a hpgl file with one
>> copper layer and the pads on it? this would be very great as i could see
>if it would work without having
>> all the trouble of getting it, installing, etc...
>> you may directly email it to stefan_trethan@... or upload it at yahoo
>if anyone else wants to see.
>> i would very appreciate this if possible....
>> please meke sure if you can provide the file there is at least one pad and
>one copper trace connected to
>> one pad (sometimes the hole in the pad is there but the trace "sticks" in
>there to the middle.
>
>I've sent the file to Stefan.
>
>
>>
>>
>> b) is there a way to get the software, lets call it "cheap", for private
>use ?
>
>
>You can download a demo, limited to 100 pins.
>
>It's quite expensive to buy ($1000 upwards). EasyPC (same company but
>different web site) is a lot cheaper, but less capable. It will also output
>HPGL.
>
>Leon
>--
>Leon Heller, G1HSM
>leon_heller@...
>http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "JGraham" <jgraham@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB design software


> hogwash...
> I urge you to check out
> http://www.it-director.com/article.php?articleid=10822
>
> JGraham
>
> On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 19:37, Mike Putnam wrote:
> > I have to differ with your opinion. I have a network, also. I have
different
> > OS on the network. The only time I have ever had a fatal crash where I
could
> > not go back and retrieve my data was on a WIN2000 machine. Two of my
> > machines have XP and the others have Win 98. I will never again trust my
> > data to Win2000 or ME. Of course there have been some service packs for
2000
> > since that downfall. XP is a very stable operating system. I have never
had
> > problems with my system. The only problems I have seen others have is
when
> > you try to use XP home edition on a network or when you use an older
program
> > that is not 32 bit capable. I use XP professional. Most problems I have
seen
> > with networks and operating systems are normally problems with
networking in
> > general. Setting up the network on the XP machine was the easiest and
least
> > time consuming of any that I have ever done. I do not like Microsoft,
> > either. But I do have to say that this XP system has saved me a lot of
work.
> > Do not use a DOS based program on a newer Windows OS. If you do this,
don't
> > blame your crash on the OS.
> > -Mike
> >

> ... I did not
> mean to buy into a long discussion on Operating systems. There are other
> forums for that. I will drop this subject and I urge others to do

> ....and that being said, on with the PCBs... I have been watching the
> conversation about using a plotter to directly lay down etch resist

> board. I am interested in playing with this myself. Could some of

> more info on this subject?

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Putnam" <circuit@g...> wrote:
>> ... I did not
>> mean to buy into a long discussion on Operating systems. There are other
>> forums for that. I will drop this subject and I urge others to do
>the same.
>
>Thank you.
>
>> ....and that being said, on with the PCBs... I have been watching the
>> conversation about using a plotter to directly lay down etch resist
>to the
>> board. I am interested in playing with this myself. Could some of
>you add
>> more info on this subject?
>
>Start by taking a look in the links under "Plotter Method". The ink
>used is of number one importance. I also included a link to a site
>about the HPGL plotter language.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links/Plotter_method_001007656445/
>
>Although I guess now there are two methods by plotter, by using an
>etch resist ink in the pen and plotting etch resist right onto the
>board, and Scratch and Etch where an etch resist is sprayed on and
>scratched off by a stylus in place of the pen.
>
>Steve Greenfield
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>