Homebrew PCBs

dhlocker:
 >
 > I have used Office Max High Gloss photo paper with outstanding results.
 >
My art work was taken out of a construction article that I ran across
on the Internet.  I copied the artwork onto generic copy paper that I
use in my
HP 3320 Inkjet printer and took this copy to my local UPS copy store.

The laser jet copy was made on a Minolta machine, normal density, on the
glossy side of the Office Max paper.

Using the usual iron-on technique, preheating the copper clad material
prior to
applying the artwork to the copper surface and applying iron-on
heat/pressure for about
2 minutes with constant motion of the iron. The toner adhered to the
copper quite
well, and evidenced when I soaked the PCB in warm water.  I did let the
PCB cool
off for about 10 minutes prior to the warm water soak.

The paper flaked off very effortlessly, just requiring a bit of thumb
rubbing in one
or two places. But all-in-all, the paper literally floated off.

Retouching a few pinholes was required. The image was near perfect.

Using the Muriatic acid/peroxide etch solution, the board etched out in
about
5 minutes with a moderate amount of heat applied to the etchant in a glass
baking dish in open air with a constant rocking back and forth of the dish
Moderate heat was applied to the etchant via a heat gun that is designed
to be used
with heat-shrink tubing commonly used in electronics wiring.

The toner was tough to remove, and I finally resorted to naphtha to help
dissolve it, followed by a ScotchBrite pad and Comet cleanser.

The second time around, a different laser printer was used at the UPS store.
I don't recall the brand name.  The Minolta machines were all busy.
The same Office Max High Gloss paper was used (from the same package).

This time, the paper was very difficult to remove, and I had to resort of a
toothbrush to partially remove it followed by a lot of thumb rubbing.
Some of the toner came off with the paper and I had to retouch several pads
and traces with a Sharpie pen. The warm water soak time was inordinately
long IMHO.

Not nearly as good as the first attempt with Office Max Glossy
and the Minolta printer.

My conclusion is that the toner makes the difference.

The only variable in the two instances was the difference in the laser
printers,
each most likely using a different type of toner.

Yesterday I received a package of Fry's GQ Glossy Photo Paper, but it
will be a while before I have need for any more PCB's.  So if anyone has
had experience with this paper, please advise.

Comments and suggestions are most welcomed.

Roland F. Harriston

In my case, I know the only difference was the side of the paper on
which I printed.  I used the same printer with the same settings, same
artwork.  Printed on glossy side was a disaster; printed on
less-glossy side was _so_ easy [one pinhole.]  You might try it again,
just to add another data point.

Thanks for the followup,
Donald.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Roland F. Harriston"
<rolohar@...> wrote:
>
> dhlocker:
>  >
>  > I have used Office Max High Gloss photo paper with outstanding
results.
>  >

[snip]

> 
> The laser jet copy was made on a Minolta machine, normal density, on the
> glossy side of the Office Max paper.

[snip]

> Retouching a few pinholes was required. The image was near perfect.

[snip]

> The second time around, a different laser printer was used at the
UPS store.
> I don't recall the brand name.  The Minolta machines were all busy.
> The same Office Max High Gloss paper was used (from the same package).
> 
> This time, the paper was very difficult to remove, and I had to
resort of a
> toothbrush to partially remove it followed by a lot of thumb rubbing.
> Some of the toner came off with the paper and I had to retouch
several pads
> and traces with a Sharpie pen. The warm water soak time was inordinately
> long IMHO.
> 
> Not nearly as good as the first attempt with Office Max Glossy
> and the Minolta printer.
> 
> My conclusion is that the toner makes the difference.
> 
> The only variable in the two instances was the difference in the laser
> printers,
> each most likely using a different type of toner.

[snip]

> Comments and suggestions are most welcomed.
> 
> Roland F. Harriston
>

dhlocker:

Thanks for the comments.

I have noticed that the back side of the Office Max paper is just slightly
less glossy than the front side,  so, as you have experienced, either side
will probably work.  Next time I use  the Office Max  paper, I'll try 
the backside.

I think the active agent here is a polished clay coat, and the Office Max
paper might just be polished more on one side than the other, but both sides
are clay coated.

The paper experts among us can correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption.

I'm still stuck on the idea that the toner plays an important part in this
scheme, and that various toner compounds react differently with respect
to how well they bond to the paper.  A really strong bond might present
problems when removing the paper. Whereas a less strong bond will
allow easy paper removal. It seems that I did read somewhere about the
various compositions of laser toner compounds.

Like yourself, I have always used the litho negative/photoresist
technology, and am pleased as Punch not to have to go through
that rain dance anymore!  Not to mention getting rid of that
messy ferric chloride slime.

Most of my stuff is strictly hobby or prototyping, and the
laser jet toner technique is just fine for my applications.

Regards,

Roland F. Harriston
****************************************


dhlocker wrote:
>
> In my case, I know the only difference was the side of the paper on
> which I printed. I used the same printer with the same settings, same
> artwork. Printed on glossy side was a disaster; printed on
> less-glossy side was _so_ easy [one pinhole.] You might try it again,
> just to add another data point.
>
> Thanks for the followup,
> Donald.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oops.  It was Office Depot paper I used.  (I should have known; my
wife bought it :)

Anyway, it was SKU 652-001, Office Depot High Gloss Photo Paper, UPC
7-35854-98034-4, 69# (260 gm/m2)  It has a distinctly plastic surface
that is very shiny and a distinctly not-plastic surface that is
slightly matte.  I printed on the matte side on an HP LaserJet 5000 at
RET Max and Toner Density 5.  Ironed for 4 minutes at halfway between
Cotton and Linen, then cooled it, peeled the plastic surface away,
soaked for 5 minutes and peeled the paper away.

Donald.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Roland F. Harriston"
<rolohar@...> wrote:
>
> dhlocker:
> 
> Thanks for the comments.
> 
> I have noticed that the back side of the Office Max paper is just
slightly
> less glossy than the front side,  so, as you have experienced,
either side
> will probably work.  Next time I use  the Office Max  paper, I'll try 
> the backside.
> 
> I think the active agent here is a polished clay coat, and the
Office Max
> paper might just be polished more on one side than the other, but
both sides
> are clay coated.
> 
> The paper experts among us can correct me if I'm wrong in this
assumption.
> 
> I'm still stuck on the idea that the toner plays an important part
in this

> scheme, and that various toner compounds react differently with respect
> to how well they bond to the paper.  A really strong bond might present
> problems when removing the paper. Whereas a less strong bond will
> allow easy paper removal. It seems that I did read somewhere about the
> various compositions of laser toner compounds.
> 
> Like yourself, I have always used the litho negative/photoresist
> technology, and am pleased as Punch not to have to go through
> that rain dance anymore!  Not to mention getting rid of that
> messy ferric chloride slime.
> 
> Most of my stuff is strictly hobby or prototyping, and the
> laser jet toner technique is just fine for my applications.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Roland F. Harriston

dhlocker:

My comments and observations were for Office Max High Gloss photo
paper.

Next time I go into my local Office Depot store, I pick up a package of
SKU 652-001 and give it a try.

If the paper does not work well for PCB applications, I can always use it
for some mundane, boring task........like printing photos!

Thanks for the correction

Roland F. Harriston





dhlocker wrote:
>
> Oops. It was Office Depot paper I used. (I should have known; my
> wife bought it :)
>
> Anyway, it was SKU 652-001, Office Depot High Gloss Photo Paper, UPC
> 7-35854-98034- 4, 69# (260 gm/m2) It has a distinctly plastic surface
> that is very shiny and a distinctly not-plastic surface that is
> slightly matte. I printed on the matte side on an HP LaserJet 5000 at
> RET Max and Toner Density 5. Ironed for 4 minutes at halfway between
> Cotton and Linen, then cooled it, peeled the plastic surface away,
> soaked for 5 minutes and peeled the paper away.
>
> Donald.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Roland F. Harriston"
> <rolohar@... > wrote:
> >
> > dhlocker:
> >
> > Thanks for the comments.
> >
> > I have noticed that the back side of the Office Max paper is just
> slightly
> > less glossy than the front side, so, as you have experienced,
> either side
> > will probably work. Next time I use the Office Max paper, I'll try
> > the backside.
> >
> > I think the active agent here is a polished clay coat, and the
> Office Max
> > paper might just be polished more on one side than the other, but
> both sides
> > are clay coated.
> >
> > The paper experts among us can correct me if I'm wrong in this
> assumption.
> >
> > I'm still stuck on the idea that the toner plays an important part
> in this
> > scheme, and that various toner compounds react differently with respect
> > to how well they bond to the paper. A really strong bond might present
> > problems when removing the paper. Whereas a less strong bond will
> > allow easy paper removal. It seems that I did read somewhere about the
> > various compositions of laser toner compounds.
> >
> > Like yourself, I have always used the litho negative/photoresis t
> > technology, and am pleased as Punch not to have to go through
> > that rain dance anymore! Not to mention getting rid of that
> > messy ferric chloride slime.
> >
> > Most of my stuff is strictly hobby or prototyping, and the
> > laser jet toner technique is just fine for my applications.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Roland F. Harriston
>
>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the proof of the
TT must be in the etching.  I think I got 15 good boards out of 20 on
one panel (each is 1 inch square.)  But that included some Sharpie fixes.

My second and third transfers didn't pull nearly as cleanly as my
first and left a difficult-to-remove residue in some spots.  I also
tried lower temperatures and various peel techniques, but couldn't
seem to replicate my initial success, which I'll blame on beginner's luck.

All in all, I'm not altogether thrilled by the Office Depot paper. 
But it's better than anything else I've tried.  Of course, i haven't
tried anything else, so I guess I'll be off to Staples to collect a
bit of their paper for my next try.

Thanks all for guidance and encouragement!
Donald.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Roland F. Harriston"
<rolohar@...> wrote:
>
> dhlocker:
> 
> My comments and observations were for Office Max High Gloss photo
> paper.
> 
> Next time I go into my local Office Depot store, I pick up a package of
> SKU 652-001 and give it a try.
> 
> If the paper does not work well for PCB applications, I can always
use it

> for some mundane, boring task........like printing photos!
> 
> Thanks for the correction
> 
> Roland F. Harriston
>

--- dhlocker <dhlocker@...> wrote:
...
> All in all, I'm not altogether thrilled by the Office Depot paper. 
> But it's better than anything else I've tried.  Of course, i haven't
> tried anything else, so I guess I'll be off to Staples to collect a
> bit of their paper for my next try.
> 
> Thanks all for guidance and encouragement!
> Donald.

plain Epson 'photo paper' works OK.
SKU S041141 - 20 SHEETS
and when ironing, use a paper towel buffer between iron and TT paper...




 
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