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2003-05-01 by grantfair2001
After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy to the touch and is not putting out much in the way of bubbles, so I took it out. It was a Hagen brand, a widely sold US brand of aquarium bubbler. Anyone know a brand which would stand up to the CuCl? Grant
2003-05-02 by Adam Seychell
grantfair2001 wrote: > After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy... Damn, well there goes that idea out the window. Was this the one you got ? http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/aqua_fizz_12.gif I spent some time looking for air stones and gas dispersion tubes. The closest thing I found was the porous hose used for irrigation. The stuff I got is 1/2" ID and made from recycled plastic and rubber, and appears to be acid very resistant. I want to know what people use industrially. For the lab you can get fritted glass on the end of a tube. But these are expensive. Try phoning hydroponics stores because they may have bigger range and variety. Ceramic air stones are commonly available, which I have never tried myself. Other people to try are in the water + sewage treatment industry. They may able to help. Just ask for fine bubble air diffuser. Here is some stuff I found on the web. http://southernaquaculturesupply.com/catalog2002/aeration/019.shtml http://www.redvalve.com/Products/Air_Diffusers/Tubeflex.html http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/saltref/diffuser.html http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/air6.html
2003-05-02 by grantfair2001
Yip, that's the one. I asked the clerk what it was made of but she didn't have a clue (or seem likely to get one anytimew soon, either). I thought I would just get some more of the surplus tygon tubing I am using now to feed the sparger. This is the yellow tubing intended for automobile use, like gasoline etc., but it is only 50 cents a foot. I thought I would put some holes in it with a hot needle and plug one end with some PVC rod. If that fails I will follow up on your suggestions which are excellent, as usual. Thanks, Grant --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <adam_seychell@y...> wrote:
> > > grantfair2001 wrote: > > After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy... > > Damn, well there goes that idea out the window. > Was this the one you got ? > http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/aqua_fizz_12.gif > > I spent some time looking for air stones and gas dispersion > tubes. The closest thing I found was the porous hose used for > irrigation. The stuff I got is 1/2" ID and made from recycled > plastic and rubber, and appears to be acid very resistant. I want > to know what people use industrially. > > For the lab you can get fritted glass on the end of a tube. But > these are expensive. > > Try phoning hydroponics stores because they may have bigger range > and variety. Ceramic air stones are commonly available, which I > have never tried myself. Other people to try are in the water + > sewage treatment industry. They may able to help. Just ask for > fine bubble air diffuser. > > Here is some stuff I found on the web. > > http://southernaquaculturesupply.com/catalog2002/aeration/019.shtml > http://www.redvalve.com/Products/Air_Diffusers/Tubeflex.html > http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/saltref/diffuser.html > http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/air6.html
2003-05-02 by Adam Seychell
I once tried pin holes in PVC tube, but the bubbles always come out big compared to air stones. I think they air needs to pass through all those small cavities for it to make small bubbles. When experimenting its always a good idea to use a bucket of water first. Adam grantfair2001 wrote:
> Yip, that's the one. I asked the clerk what it was made of but she > didn't have a clue (or seem likely to get one anytimew soon, either). > > I thought I would just get some more of the surplus tygon tubing I am > using now to feed the sparger. This is the yellow tubing intended for > automobile use, like gasoline etc., but it is only 50 cents a foot. I > thought I would put some holes in it with a hot needle and plug one > end with some PVC rod. If that fails I will follow up on your > suggestions which are excellent, as usual. > > Thanks, > Grant > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell > <adam_seychell@y...> wrote: > >> >>grantfair2001 wrote: >> >>>After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy... >> >>Damn, well there goes that idea out the window. >>Was this the one you got ? >>http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/aqua_fizz_12.gif >> >>I spent some time looking for air stones and gas dispersion >>tubes. The closest thing I found was the porous hose used for >>irrigation. The stuff I got is 1/2" ID and made from recycled >>plastic and rubber, and appears to be acid very resistant. I want >>to know what people use industrially. >> >>For the lab you can get fritted glass on the end of a tube. But >>these are expensive. >> >>Try phoning hydroponics stores because they may have bigger range >>and variety. Ceramic air stones are commonly available, which I >>have never tried myself. Other people to try are in the water + >>sewage treatment industry. They may able to help. Just ask for >>fine bubble air diffuser. >> >>Here is some stuff I found on the web. >> >>http://southernaquaculturesupply.com/catalog2002/aeration/019.shtml >>http://www.redvalve.com/Products/Air_Diffusers/Tubeflex.html >>http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/saltref/diffuser.html >>http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/air6.html > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2003-05-04 by grantfair2001
It looks like the Sweetwater air diffusers might be best for the job, in that they last forever in an acidic environment, according to the manufacturer. There is a Canadian seller but they are on the west coast so it will take a while. That firm also sells air diffuser hose, which is much cheaper (C$2.00/ft) than the Sweetwater airstone (which you pointed out), which is $31 for one 12" stone. Click on 'diffuser hose' at: http://www.direct.ca/dynamicaqua/diffusers.html It is rubber and polyethylene. Adam, or other group members - any idea how that combination would hold up to an acid bath? In the meantime, on the basis of your experience, Adam, I decided against putting pin holes in the hose. Instead I drilled very fine holes in an 18" piece of 1/4" ID schedule 40 PVC pipe, plugged one end, and stuck the air hose on the other end. The bubbles are finer than the sparger makes, but not tiny. Not bad for 1/2 an hour of drilling, though. I have had the sparger on since I removed the mushy airstone. But the etchant is still a coca cola brown in color. Condensate (or splash) on the inside lid is quite green, though. Anyway, finer bubbles would seem to be the key. I will see how the new test aerator does, but I think I will at least buy some of the aeration hose. It's taking longer than I hoped, but when it is ready, I have a lot of etchant which will make it easy to etch quickly and keep the etchant ready to go - I hope. Grant --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell <adam_seychell@y...> wrote:
> I once tried pin holes in PVC tube, but the bubbles always come > out big compared to air stones. I think they air needs to pass > through all those small cavities for it to make small bubbles. > When experimenting its always a good idea to use a bucket of > water first. > > Adam
2003-05-05 by Adam Seychell
That URL shows some good stuff on air "sparging". The porous hose is probably just fine for the job. As you say, the ceramic blocks (fine bubble version) are probably better but...$$. I since searched google Australia for diffusers and found lots of new places dealing with aeration, I must of spelled it wrong in an earlier search. I found that suppliers to the "aquaculture" industry have loads of aeration equipment. Everything from 2000+ liter/minute air blowers down to 1 liter/minute small magnetic diaphragm pumps. In case you want to aerate a small lake of CuCl2, for example :). There is also "ultra fine bubble diffusers" that apparently produce bubbles under 0.1 to 0.5mm, although I don't think we need to go to that level, plus that would need considerable air pressure (25psi loss). I am sure that when you get the fine bubbles happening they in a few hours the etchant will be green. Remember though that the copper concentration is too high for you to ever see more than few millimeters into the solution. What you are looking for is deep green color, or a drop on a white surface will look clear green. If looking dark drown then there is still some dissolved copper(I) chloride. I'm not exactly sure how much copper(I) chloride (or what the state of solution color) can be tolerated before it starts to effect etching rate. I know that if dark muddy then its definitely slows down etch. Adam grantfair2001 wrote:
> It looks like the Sweetwater air diffusers might be best for the job, > in that they last forever in an acidic environment, according to the > manufacturer. There is a Canadian seller but they are on the west > coast so it will take a while. That firm also sells air diffuser hose, > which is much cheaper (C$2.00/ft) than the Sweetwater airstone (which > you pointed out), which is $31 for one 12" stone. Click on 'diffuser > hose' at: > > http://www.direct.ca/dynamicaqua/diffusers.html > > It is rubber and polyethylene. Adam, or other group members - any idea > how that combination would hold up to an acid bath? > > In the meantime, on the basis of your experience, Adam, I decided > against putting pin holes in the hose. Instead I drilled very fine > holes in an 18" piece of 1/4" ID schedule 40 PVC pipe, plugged one > end, and stuck the air hose on the other end. The bubbles are finer > than the sparger makes, but not tiny. Not bad for 1/2 an hour of > drilling, though. > > I have had the sparger on since I removed the mushy airstone. But the > etchant is still a coca cola brown in color. Condensate (or splash) on > the inside lid is quite green, though. Anyway, finer bubbles would > seem to be the key. I will see how the new test aerator does, but I > think I will at least buy some of the aeration hose. > > It's taking longer than I hoped, but when it is ready, I have a lot of > etchant which will make it easy to etch quickly and keep the etchant > ready to go - I hope. > > Grant > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell > <adam_seychell@y...> wrote: > >>I once tried pin holes in PVC tube, but the bubbles always come >>out big compared to air stones. I think they air needs to pass >>through all those small cavities for it to make small bubbles. >>When experimenting its always a good idea to use a bucket of >>water first. >> >>Adam > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >