Homebrew_PCBs

After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy to the touch and is
not putting out much in the way of bubbles, so I took it out. It was a
Hagen brand, a widely sold US brand of aquarium bubbler.

Anyone know a brand which would stand up to the CuCl?

Grant

grantfair2001 wrote:

> After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy...

Damn, well there goes that idea out the window.
Was this the one you got ?
http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/aqua_fizz_12.gif

I spent some time looking for air stones and gas dispersion
tubes. The closest thing I found was the porous hose used for
irrigation. The stuff I got is 1/2" ID and made from recycled
plastic and rubber, and appears to be acid very resistant. I want
to know what people use industrially.

For the lab you can get fritted glass on the end of a tube. But
these are expensive.

Try phoning hydroponics stores because they may have bigger range
and variety. Ceramic air stones are commonly available, which I
have never tried myself. Other people to try are in the water +
sewage treatment industry. They may able to help. Just ask for
fine bubble air diffuser.

Here is some stuff I found on the web.

http://southernaquaculturesupply.com/catalog2002/aeration/019.shtml
http://www.redvalve.com/Products/Air_Diffusers/Tubeflex.html
http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/saltref/diffuser.html
http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/air6.html

Yip, that's the one. I asked the clerk what it was made of but she
didn't have a clue (or seem likely to get one anytimew soon, either).

I thought I would just get some more of the surplus tygon tubing I am
using now to feed the sparger. This is the yellow tubing intended for
automobile use, like gasoline etc., but it is only 50 cents a foot. I
thought I would put some holes in it with a hot needle and plug one
end with some PVC rod. If that fails I will follow up on your
suggestions which are excellent, as usual.

Thanks,
Grant

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell
<adam_seychell@y...> wrote:

>
>
> grantfair2001 wrote:
> > After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy...
>
> Damn, well there goes that idea out the window.
> Was this the one you got ?
> http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/aqua_fizz_12.gif
>
> I spent some time looking for air stones and gas dispersion
> tubes. The closest thing I found was the porous hose used for
> irrigation. The stuff I got is 1/2" ID and made from recycled
> plastic and rubber, and appears to be acid very resistant. I want
> to know what people use industrially.
>
> For the lab you can get fritted glass on the end of a tube. But
> these are expensive.
>
> Try phoning hydroponics stores because they may have bigger range
> and variety. Ceramic air stones are commonly available, which I
> have never tried myself. Other people to try are in the water +
> sewage treatment industry. They may able to help. Just ask for
> fine bubble air diffuser.
>
> Here is some stuff I found on the web.
>
> http://southernaquaculturesupply.com/catalog2002/aeration/019.shtml
> http://www.redvalve.com/Products/Air_Diffusers/Tubeflex.html
> http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/saltref/diffuser.html
> http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/air6.html

I once tried pin holes in PVC tube, but the bubbles always come
out big compared to air stones. I think they air needs to pass
through all those small cavities for it to make small bubbles.
When experimenting its always a good idea to use a bucket of
water first.

Adam

grantfair2001 wrote:

> Yip, that's the one. I asked the clerk what it was made of but she
> didn't have a clue (or seem likely to get one anytimew soon, either).
>
> I thought I would just get some more of the surplus tygon tubing I am
> using now to feed the sparger. This is the yellow tubing intended for
> automobile use, like gasoline etc., but it is only 50 cents a foot. I
> thought I would put some holes in it with a hot needle and plug one
> end with some PVC rod. If that fails I will follow up on your
> suggestions which are excellent, as usual.
>
> Thanks,
> Grant
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell
> <adam_seychell@y...> wrote:
>
>>
>>grantfair2001 wrote:
>>
>>>After about 24 hours, the 12" airstone is mushy...
>>
>>Damn, well there goes that idea out the window.
>>Was this the one you got ?
>>http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/aqua_fizz_12.gif
>>
>>I spent some time looking for air stones and gas dispersion
>>tubes. The closest thing I found was the porous hose used for
>>irrigation. The stuff I got is 1/2" ID and made from recycled
>>plastic and rubber, and appears to be acid very resistant. I want
>>to know what people use industrially.
>>
>>For the lab you can get fritted glass on the end of a tube. But
>>these are expensive.
>>
>>Try phoning hydroponics stores because they may have bigger range
>>and variety. Ceramic air stones are commonly available, which I
>>have never tried myself. Other people to try are in the water +
>>sewage treatment industry. They may able to help. Just ask for
>>fine bubble air diffuser.
>>
>>Here is some stuff I found on the web.
>>
>>http://southernaquaculturesupply.com/catalog2002/aeration/019.shtml
>>http://www.redvalve.com/Products/Air_Diffusers/Tubeflex.html
>>http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/saltref/diffuser.html
>>http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/air6.html
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

It looks like the Sweetwater air diffusers might be best for the job,
in that they last forever in an acidic environment, according to the
manufacturer. There is a Canadian seller but they are on the west
coast so it will take a while. That firm also sells air diffuser hose,
which is much cheaper (C$2.00/ft) than the Sweetwater airstone (which
you pointed out), which is $31 for one 12" stone. Click on 'diffuser
hose' at:

http://www.direct.ca/dynamicaqua/diffusers.html

It is rubber and polyethylene. Adam, or other group members - any idea
how that combination would hold up to an acid bath?

In the meantime, on the basis of your experience, Adam, I decided
against putting pin holes in the hose. Instead I drilled very fine
holes in an 18" piece of 1/4" ID schedule 40 PVC pipe, plugged one
end, and stuck the air hose on the other end. The bubbles are finer
than the sparger makes, but not tiny. Not bad for 1/2 an hour of
drilling, though.

I have had the sparger on since I removed the mushy airstone. But the
etchant is still a coca cola brown in color. Condensate (or splash) on
the inside lid is quite green, though. Anyway, finer bubbles would
seem to be the key. I will see how the new test aerator does, but I
think I will at least buy some of the aeration hose.

It's taking longer than I hoped, but when it is ready, I have a lot of
etchant which will make it easy to etch quickly and keep the etchant
ready to go - I hope.

Grant


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell
<adam_seychell@y...> wrote:

> I once tried pin holes in PVC tube, but the bubbles always come
> out big compared to air stones. I think they air needs to pass
> through all those small cavities for it to make small bubbles.
> When experimenting its always a good idea to use a bucket of
> water first.
>
> Adam

That URL shows some good stuff on air "sparging". The porous hose
is probably just fine for the job. As you say, the ceramic blocks
(fine bubble version) are probably better but...$$.
I since searched google Australia for diffusers and found lots of
new places dealing with aeration, I must of spelled it wrong in
an earlier search. I found that suppliers to the "aquaculture"
industry have loads of aeration equipment. Everything from 2000+
liter/minute air blowers down to 1 liter/minute small magnetic
diaphragm pumps. In case you want to aerate a small lake of
CuCl2, for example :). There is also "ultra fine bubble
diffusers" that apparently produce bubbles under 0.1 to 0.5mm,
although I don't think we need to go to that level, plus that
would need considerable air pressure (25psi loss).

I am sure that when you get the fine bubbles happening they in a
few hours the etchant will be green. Remember though that the
copper concentration is too high for you to ever see more than
few millimeters into the solution. What you are looking for is
deep green color, or a drop on a white surface will look clear
green. If looking dark drown then there is still some dissolved
copper(I) chloride. I'm not exactly sure how much copper(I)
chloride (or what the state of solution color) can be tolerated
before it starts to effect etching rate. I know that if dark
muddy then its definitely slows down etch.

Adam


grantfair2001 wrote:

> It looks like the Sweetwater air diffusers might be best for the job,
> in that they last forever in an acidic environment, according to the
> manufacturer. There is a Canadian seller but they are on the west
> coast so it will take a while. That firm also sells air diffuser hose,
> which is much cheaper (C$2.00/ft) than the Sweetwater airstone (which
> you pointed out), which is $31 for one 12" stone. Click on 'diffuser
> hose' at:
>
> http://www.direct.ca/dynamicaqua/diffusers.html
>
> It is rubber and polyethylene. Adam, or other group members - any idea
> how that combination would hold up to an acid bath?
>
> In the meantime, on the basis of your experience, Adam, I decided
> against putting pin holes in the hose. Instead I drilled very fine
> holes in an 18" piece of 1/4" ID schedule 40 PVC pipe, plugged one
> end, and stuck the air hose on the other end. The bubbles are finer
> than the sparger makes, but not tiny. Not bad for 1/2 an hour of
> drilling, though.
>
> I have had the sparger on since I removed the mushy airstone. But the
> etchant is still a coca cola brown in color. Condensate (or splash) on
> the inside lid is quite green, though. Anyway, finer bubbles would
> seem to be the key. I will see how the new test aerator does, but I
> think I will at least buy some of the aeration hose.
>
> It's taking longer than I hoped, but when it is ready, I have a lot of
> etchant which will make it easy to etch quickly and keep the etchant
> ready to go - I hope.
>
> Grant
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Adam Seychell
> <adam_seychell@y...> wrote:
>
>>I once tried pin holes in PVC tube, but the bubbles always come
>>out big compared to air stones. I think they air needs to pass
>>through all those small cavities for it to make small bubbles.
>>When experimenting its always a good idea to use a bucket of
>>water first.
>>
>>Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>