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EDM process for isolation milling?

EDM process for isolation milling?

2006-10-03 by lcdpublishing

Hi guys,

About a year ago or so there was some talk of using EDM for 
isolation milling and such. Stefan was tinkering a bit with it and 
another fellow did some heavy, indepth work in the process, 
including making a power supply to do the grunt work.

I remember the initial approach was to use a bitmap image for 
processing of the machining.  There was a good reason why this 
approach was used and I don't recall why - does anyone remember?

Last night I was giving thought to this process. The one problem I 
see with EDM and isolation milling is keeping the PCB conductive.  
For example, if the output from the isolation milling routine 
creates and island in the middle of the board - then further 
machining needs to be done in that island area, it would no longer 
be conductive.  So I suspect that is part of the problem with using 
vector data as opposed to bitmap data.

Chris

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] EDM process for isolation milling?

2006-10-03 by Cristian

>
>I remember the initial approach was to use a bitmap image for
>processing of the machining. There was a good reason why this
>approach was used and I don't recall why - does anyone remember?

One spark per bit.

Re: EDM process for isolation milling?

2006-10-03 by curt_rxr

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "lcdpublishing"
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> 
> About a year ago or so there was some talk of using EDM for 
> isolation milling and such. Stefan was tinkering a bit with it and 
> another fellow did some heavy, indepth work in the process, 
> including making a power supply to do the grunt work.
> 
> I remember the initial approach was to use a bitmap image for 
> processing of the machining.  There was a good reason why this 
> approach was used and I don't recall why - does anyone remember?
> 
> Last night I was giving thought to this process. The one problem I 
> see with EDM and isolation milling is keeping the PCB conductive.  
> For example, if the output from the isolation milling routine 
> creates and island in the middle of the board - then further 
> machining needs to be done in that island area, it would no longer 
> be conductive.  So I suspect that is part of the problem with using 
> vector data as opposed to bitmap data.
> 
> Chris
>


Sure thing Chris,

I started an EDM project about the same time the list was started.

The reasons for choosing raster instead of vector were twofold. 
Firstly, I was trying to adapt a printer and use the built in PCL 5
routines to "print" the layout directly to the circuit boards. 
Secondarily,  as you have noted it's the easier way to maintain a
ground return path.  

I ended up custom building a stepper driven XY table as the printer
was incapable of the needed accuracy and the built in software was
dependant on a parallel row of jets in a cartridge.  While printing
one dot after another was possible, the speed was glacial.  Even with
the XY table the speed was limited by the resolution needed for fine
pitch packages.  Using high speed IGBTs for the pulse circuitry and
incorperating breakdown voltage control of the electrode gap. the best
speed I was able to obtain for a an 8 inch by 11 inch board was 45
minutes.

Another system that might be faster would the vector or pen plotter
approach with a ground return incorperated into a dielectric pipe
surrounding the electrode.  The return path would travel with the
electrode.

With the advent of the Volkan direct resist printing system there no
reason to continue with EDM for PCBs since you can print and etch
multiple copies of your layout in less time than you can burn one.

There are several folks in Europe continuing the EDM work so you may
want to look on other lists.

Curt Richards

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: EDM process for isolation milling?

2006-10-03 by roger lucas

Hi Curt,

Good to hear from you again. 

The reason I am continuing to build a small EDM PCB
Mill is because the machine can be left on it's own to
plug away at the spark erosion, time is not really a
factor. Secondly, the cost of importing the inks for
direct resist printing is not inconsiderable here in
Europe. Also there is the etchant cost. Lastly the
direct resist method still seems to be subject to a
certain 'black art', and few people seem to have had
success to date. I was one who never really had 100%
consistent results with toner transfer for example.

No doubt the black art will eventually be overcome,
but the EDM mill does not require any substantial
black art for successful board production, but of
course, you have to build a cnc as well.

Roger


--- curt_rxr <cwrxr@...> wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com,
> "lcdpublishing"
> <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > About a year ago or so there was some talk of
> using EDM for 
> > isolation milling and such. Stefan was tinkering a
> bit with it and 
> > another fellow did some heavy, indepth work in the
> process, 
> > including making a power supply to do the grunt
> work.
> > 
> > I remember the initial approach was to use a
> bitmap image for 
> > processing of the machining.  There was a good
> reason why this 
> > approach was used and I don't recall why - does
> anyone remember?
> > 
> > Last night I was giving thought to this process.
> The one problem I 
> > see with EDM and isolation milling is keeping the
> PCB conductive.  
> > For example, if the output from the isolation
> milling routine 
> > creates and island in the middle of the board -
> then further 
> > machining needs to be done in that island area, it
> would no longer 
> > be conductive.  So I suspect that is part of the
> problem with using 
> > vector data as opposed to bitmap data.
> > 
> > Chris
> >
> 
> 
> Sure thing Chris,
> 
> I started an EDM project about the same time the
> list was started.
> 
> The reasons for choosing raster instead of vector
> were twofold. 
> Firstly, I was trying to adapt a printer and use the
> built in PCL 5
> routines to "print" the layout directly to the
> circuit boards. 
> Secondarily,  as you have noted it's the easier way
> to maintain a
> ground return path.  
> 
> I ended up custom building a stepper driven XY table
> as the printer
> was incapable of the needed accuracy and the built
> in software was
> dependant on a parallel row of jets in a cartridge. 
> While printing
> one dot after another was possible, the speed was
> glacial.  Even with
> the XY table the speed was limited by the resolution
> needed for fine
> pitch packages.  Using high speed IGBTs for the
> pulse circuitry and
> incorperating breakdown voltage control of the
> electrode gap. the best
> speed I was able to obtain for a an 8 inch by 11
> inch board was 45
> minutes.
> 
> Another system that might be faster would the vector
> or pen plotter
> approach with a ground return incorperated into a
> dielectric pipe
> surrounding the electrode.  The return path would
> travel with the
> electrode.
> 
> With the advent of the Volkan direct resist printing
> system there no
> reason to continue with EDM for PCBs since you can
> print and etch
> multiple copies of your layout in less time than you
> can burn one.
> 
> There are several folks in Europe continuing the EDM
> work so you may
> want to look on other lists.
> 
> Curt Richards
> 
> 
> 
> 



		
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: EDM process for isolation milling?

2006-10-03 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:43:41 +0200, roger lucas <ralucas4277@...>  
wrote:

> h toner transfer for example.
> No doubt the black art will eventually be overcome,
> but the EDM mill does not require any substantial
> black art for successful board production,


I dunno, but i'd say it will at least require a few goats and voodoo dolls!

How do you come to the idea that EDM would be straightforward in any way?

At the moment i consider it "possible" at best, but i can think of many  
problems that will probably spring up, and as is usual with new processes  
there will be about 1000 times more problems i haven't even remotely  
considered.

Each new process will have it's problems to overcome, but i'm amazed that  
you think EDM will be easy to do...
I'll be very happy to hear about any work done in that direction though,  
i'm very curious about it and it seems it could have serious advantages  
compared to mechanical milling.

ST

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