SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place.
2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
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2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my modular work holding system. Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up on Steve's site. http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the pick and place was done. Derek B. www.hightechsystemsllc.com
2006-09-20 by Ross McKenzie
Hi Derek. I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The specified server cannot be found" on both of these links after I attempt to start (after having read the introductory text). Regards, Ross McKenzie ValuSoft Melbourne Australia Derek Barger wrote:
> I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my > modular work holding system. > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up > on Steve's site. > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > pick and place was done. > > Derek B. > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > >
2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
Hi Ross, I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a site or if my internet connection is doing too much. Derek B. www.hightechsystemsllc.com
On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@...> wrote: > Hi Derek. > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links after I attempt > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > Regards, > > Ross McKenzie > ValuSoft > Melbourne Australia > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my > > modular work holding system. > > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up > > on Steve's site. > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > > pick and place was done. > > > > Derek B. > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-20 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 03:13:37 +0200, Derek Barger <Denvercnc@...> wrote: > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my > modular work holding system. > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up > on Steve's site. > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > pick and place was done. > Derek B. > www.hightechsystemsllc.com That's great! I like the way you position the component on the suction needle, i have not thought of that! ST
2006-09-20 by Ross McKenzie
Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP has limits on email attachment sizes. Regards, Ross Derek Barger wrote:
> Hi Ross, > I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the > solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. > I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a > site or if my internet connection is doing too much. > > Derek B. > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@... > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au>> wrote: > > Hi Derek. > > > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links after I attempt > > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > > > Regards, > > > > Ross McKenzie > > ValuSoft > > Melbourne Australia > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > > > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > > > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my > > > modular work holding system. > > > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up > > > on Steve's site. > > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>> > > > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>> > > > > > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > > > pick and place was done. > > > > > > Derek B. > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > Photos: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-20 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross McKenzie" <valusoft@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. > Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP has limits on > email attachment sizes. I just played them OK. Very interesting. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2006-09-20 by WT
Hi, Derek. Nice solder paste and pick & place machine. Very interesting. Can I ask you to provide additional info and pictures of the solder paste machine? In particular, how the solder paste mechanism works. Also, details on what was used for the solder paste dispensing (needle, pump, motor, driver, software and timing control, etc.)? I intend to use it to make a DIY paste (glue actually) dispensing in a folding and gluing machine for making boxes. Can I communicate with you in private for additional info? Thanks in advance. Weedy
----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Barger To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my modular work holding system. Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up on Steve's site. http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the pick and place was done. Derek B. www.hightechsystemsllc.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-09-20 by Dave King
Ross Probably already been suggested but why not put them on youtube or google video then you won't get hassled by isp about bandwidth useage. Or has the rush for everyone to view subsided? ;-] How long does it take to do your board for each op (parts, paste,bake)? Was the machine running full speed? Dave
> Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP has limits on > email attachment sizes. > > Regards, > > Ross > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > Hi Ross, > > I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the > > solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. > > I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a > > site or if my internet connection is doing too much. > > > > Derek B. > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@... > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au>> wrote: > > > Hi Derek. > > > > > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > > > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links > after I attempt > > > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ross McKenzie > > > ValuSoft > > > Melbourne Australia > > > > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > > > > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > > > > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using > Mach2 and my > > > > modular work holding system. > > > > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got > the video up > > > > on Steve's site. > > > > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>> > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>> > > > > > > > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > > > > pick and place was done. > > > > > > > > Derek B. > > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > > Photos: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, > and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
Hi Weedy, It has been awhile since we have done this so if I get some details wrong I will correct them latter. The solder paste is easier than than the pick and place. We got some supplies from a manufacturer. The needles and the O ring syringe cap with black hose. CNCed the bracket to hold the solder paste syringe. The controls are relatively simple a microprocessor or lots of timers are need to control the solder paste and Pick a place. We used a portable air tank the type that you air up tires with that full you can run quite a few boards before refilling. Less noise in the basement. The air goes through a pressure regulator that is set to the recommend pressure for the solder paste being used. I believe we set this to about 10psi for this particular type. Next is a air solenoid that is controlled by the microprocessor. At the right time the Mach2 sends a signal from the DenverCNC controller to the microprocessor to fire the solenoid. The micro controls the timing in how long the air solenoid is on. You can hear the second air solenoid release the pressure after the first is closed. Mach2 will wait until the solder has been dispensed then move to the next g-coded pad. If the pad is very large it will double or triple shoot the pad for the proper amount of solder. By the way Steve was able to make a program that did most of the work locating the pad location from the Eagle file. There was some hand editing that still had to be done. Eagle doesn't do a very good job in the order it makes the pads. That is why it does a lot of rapids to other pads. If we had spent more time we could have optimized the code. The pick and place is more challenging. A vacuum and pressure is needed this required quite a few solenoids, vacuum pump and the portable air tank plus a 4th axis to position the surface mount parts. We made a tube and stepper bracket. The tube mounts to the stepper directly at the bottom the air/vacuum line is mounted the needle goes on the end. The stepper is used to orient the part to the board. It also functions in the centering of the part. The vacuum of course is used to is used to pick up the part then the air pressure from the tank is regulated to a few psi. This is pulsed at a milli second to get rid of the vacuum and push the part off of the needle. Miss alignment was not as big a problem as it was thought it would be. You do have to be careful moving the board to the hotplate some of the chip got bumped out of place. The solder paste will pull them back in to position if they are not out by very much. You can see the solder turn from a dull gray to a shiny silver when it melts. A lot of the parts where made from surplus. The vacuum pump was something we had laying around. Very noisy. Solenoids were surplus. Brackets and adapter were machined by us. Micro was an Atmel for some of the project. Mach2 was used to run the g-code. A macro in Mach 2 was made to signal the Atmel. Overall it was a very sucessfull project. It is still used today for other prototype boards. You can contact me anytime by email. Thanks, Derek
On 9/20/06, WT <pharmapack@...> wrote: > Hi, Derek. > > Nice solder paste and pick & place machine. Very interesting. > > Can I ask you to provide additional info and pictures of the solder paste machine? In particular, how the solder paste mechanism works. Also, details on what was used for the solder paste dispensing (needle, pump, motor, driver, software and timing control, etc.)? > > I intend to use it to make a DIY paste (glue actually) dispensing in a folding and gluing machine for making boxes. Can I communicate with you in private for additional info? > > Thanks in advance. > > Weedy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Derek Barger > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:13 AM > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my > modular work holding system. > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up > on Steve's site. > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > pick and place was done. > > Derek B. > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >
2006-09-20 by Sander Pool
When I tried to watch the videos my graphics driver actually crashed. It
reverted to VGA, an interesting experience. I've watched thousands of
videos in the last 10 years and they have caused hangs, blue screens and
crashes but never this. Cool :)
Sander
PS I updated the graphics driver and will try again later
Dave King wrote:> > Ross > > Probably already been suggested but why not put them on youtube or google > video > then you won't get hassled by isp about bandwidth useage. Or has the rush > for > everyone to view subsided? ;-] > > How long does it take to do your board for each op (parts, paste,bake)? > > Was the machine running full speed? > > Dave > > > Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP has limits on > > email attachment sizes. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ross > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > Hi Ross, > > > I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the > > > solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. > > > I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a > > > site or if my internet connection is doing too much. > > > > > > Derek B. > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@... > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au> > > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au>> wrote: > > > > Hi Derek. > > > > > > > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > > > > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links > > after I attempt > > > > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ross McKenzie > > > > ValuSoft > > > > Melbourne Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > > > > > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > > > > > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using > > Mach2 and my > > > > > modular work holding system. > > > > > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got > > the video up > > > > > on Steve's site. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>> > > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>>> > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>> > > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > > > > > pick and place was done. > > > > > > > > > > Derek B. > > > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > > > Photos: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs>> > > > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/>> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, > > and Photos: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
Hi Dave, I think the rush is over. We where trying for a ramp up and ramp down on the temperature for a heat soak then cool off procedure. Using a temp sensors and a feedback loop we where able to control it somewhat. The problem with the hot plates is they are not made for precise heating. Some areas are hotter than others and there are other problems with hot plates. That is why you see the board being moved is because of the hot spot. A toaster oven maybe more controllable. Right now it is not perfect but it works and we have had no problems with any chips. They maybe making components more robust these days. I am sure our low humidity helps. The Taig machine was not moving at full speed. The motor we where using were smaller than we normally use. Just what we had laying around at the time. We also slowed it down so not to cause any sudden movement that would drop the surface mounts. The vacuum pump was not optimal for the application. A better pump and a storage tank would have allowed a lot fast movement. Derek B. www.hightechsystemsllc.com
On 9/20/06, Dave King <KingDWS@...> wrote: > Ross > > Probably already been suggested but why not put them on youtube or google > video > then you won't get hassled by isp about bandwidth useage. Or has the rush > for > everyone to view subsided? ;-] > > How long does it take to do your board for each op (parts, paste,bake)? > > Was the machine running full speed? > > Dave > > clipped
2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
Hi Sander, It was made with Windows Movie Maker so I don't know what the problem is :) Hope it works better latter. Thanks, Derek www.hightechsystemsllc.com
On 9/20/06, Sander Pool <sander@...> wrote: > > When I tried to watch the videos my graphics driver actually crashed. It > reverted to VGA, an interesting experience. I've watched thousands of > videos in the last 10 years and they have caused hangs, blue screens and > crashes but never this. Cool :) > > Sander > > PS I updated the graphics driver and will try again later > > Dave King wrote: > > > > Ross > > > > Probably already been suggested but why not put them on youtube or google > > video > > then you won't get hassled by isp about bandwidth useage. Or has the rush > > for > > everyone to view subsided? ;-] > > > > How long does it take to do your board for each op (parts, paste,bake)? > > > > Was the machine running full speed? > > > > Dave > > > > > Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP has limits on > > > email attachment sizes. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ross > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Ross, > > > > I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the > > > > solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. > > > > I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a > > > > site or if my internet connection is doing too much. > > > > > > > > Derek B. > > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@... > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au> > > > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au>> wrote: > > > > > Hi Derek. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > > > > > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links > > > after I attempt > > > > > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Ross McKenzie > > > > > ValuSoft > > > > > Melbourne Australia > > > > > > > > >clip
2006-09-20 by derekhawkins
>By the way Steve was able to make a program that did most of the work >locating the pad location from the Eagle file. There was some hand >editing that still had to be done. I thought smd-coordinate.ulp gave you this on a silver platter? >Eagle doesn't do a very good job in >the order it makes the pads. Sort the .smt and .smb output files on one axis. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Barger" <Denvercnc@...> wrote: >
2006-09-20 by Ross McKenzie
Hi Dave King. Ross here. I am the one having difficulty accessing DEREK's videos. I am not the one serving the videos up to the readership. Never mind. But thanks for the suggestion...for Derek <g>. Regards, Ross Dave King wrote:
> Ross > > Probably already been suggested but why not put them on youtube or google > video > then you won't get hassled by isp about bandwidth useage. Or has the rush > for > everyone to view subsided? ;-] > > How long does it take to do your board for each op (parts, paste,bake)? > > Was the machine running full speed? > > Dave > > > Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP has limits on > > email attachment sizes. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ross > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > Hi Ross, > > > I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the > > > solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. > > > I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a > > > site or if my internet connection is doing too much. > > > > > > Derek B. > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@... > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au> > > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au>> wrote: > > > > Hi Derek. > > > > > > > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > > > > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links > > after I attempt > > > > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ross McKenzie > > > > ValuSoft > > > > Melbourne Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > > > > > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > > > > > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using > > Mach2 and my > > > > > modular work holding system. > > > > > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got > > the video up > > > > > on Steve's site. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>> > > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>>> > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>> > > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > > > > > pick and place was done. > > > > > > > > > > Derek B. > > > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > > > Photos: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs>> > > > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/>> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, > > and Photos: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-20 by Derek Barger
I just went to the Cadsoft website under ulp I still don't see the file with the name smd-coordinate.ulp. You are probably right there is better way to do it. If I ever find this ulp I will give it to Steve to try. At the time that we did it there was nothing we found that was available. You need 2 different reference points the center of the part for pick and place and the center of each pad for solder paste. One axis sorting does not give you the optimal g-code with the fewest moves. Pads right next to the other pad will be skipped and come back to latter. An intelligent sort that can handle 2 axises at the same time is what is needed. Derek www.HighTechSystemsllc.com
On 9/20/06, derekhawkins <eldata@...> wrote: > >By the way Steve was able to make a program that did most of the work > >locating the pad location from the Eagle file. There was some hand > >editing that still had to be done. > > I thought smd-coordinate.ulp gave you this on a silver platter? > > >Eagle doesn't do a very good job in > >the order it makes the pads. > > Sort the .smt and .smb output files on one axis. > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Barger" <Denvercnc@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-20 by Dave King
Lol that will teach me for trying to respond while my wife is nagging me ;-] Dave
> -----Original Message----- > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ross McKenzie > Sent: September 20, 2006 3:48 PM > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. > > > Hi Dave King. > > Ross here. I am the one having difficulty accessing DEREK's videos. I am > not the one serving the videos up to the readership. > > Never mind. But thanks for the suggestion...for Derek <g>. > > Regards, > > Ross > > Dave King wrote: > > > Ross > > > > Probably already been suggested but why not put them on youtube > or google > > video > > then you won't get hassled by isp about bandwidth useage. Or > has the rush > > for > > everyone to view subsided? ;-] > > > > How long does it take to do your board for each op (parts, paste,bake)? > > > > Was the machine running full speed? > > > > Dave > > > > > Thanks for the offer Derek. I will try again later. My ISP > has limits on > > > email attachment sizes. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ross > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Ross, > > > > I can send you the videos directly the Pick and place is 6meg the > > > > solder paste is 2 meg and the reflow with a hotplate is 1.5meg. > > > > I have had this happen myself when too many people are looking at a > > > > site or if my internet connection is doing too much. > > > > > > > > Derek B. > > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > On 9/19/06, Ross McKenzie <valusoft@... > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au> > > > > <mailto:valusoft%40optusnet.com.au>> wrote: > > > > > Hi Derek. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what the issue is...but I get a message saying "The > > > > > specified server cannot be found" on both of these links > > > after I attempt > > > > > to start (after having read the introductory text). > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Ross McKenzie > > > > > ValuSoft > > > > > Melbourne Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Derek Barger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > > > > > > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > > > > > > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using > > > Mach2 and my > > > > > > modular work holding system. > > > > > > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got > > > the video up > > > > > > on Steve's site. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>> > > > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html> > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html>>> > > > > > > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>> > > > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html> > > > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > <http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface > mount after the > > > > > > pick and place was done. > > > > > > > > > > > > Derek B. > > > > > > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, > Files, and > > > > Photos: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs>> > > > > > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/>> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, > > > and Photos: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs> > > > > > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, > and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >
2006-09-21 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Barger" <Denvercnc@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. >I just went to the Cadsoft website under ulp I still don't see the > file with the name smd-coordinate.ulp. You are probably right there is > better way to do it. If I ever find this ulp I will give it to Steve > to try. At the time that we did it there was nothing we found that was > available. You need 2 different reference points the center of the > part for pick and place and the center of each pad for solder paste. > One axis sorting does not give you the optimal g-code with the fewest > moves. Pads right next to the other pad will be skipped and come back > to latter. An intelligent sort that can handle 2 axises at the same > time is what is needed. The Pulsonix software I use can output a pick and place file, here is part of one for one of my boards: Ref Part Name Side Placement Centre Rotation IC1 16F88 Top (363.22,570.23) 0 CONN1 2X1 Top (349.92,591.18) 90 CONN2 3X1 Top (343.61,558.16) 0 CONN3 Top (343.61,547.37) 0 IC3 78L05 Top (350.52,585.47) 270 C1 C1 Top (354.33,556.89) 0 C2 Top (356.24,539.75) 180 C3 Top (361.95,539.75) 180 C4 Top (356.24,542.29) 180 C5 Top (361.95,542.29) 0 Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2006-09-21 by Derek Barger
Sure that looks fine for the center that is easy. Your first chip can be an 18, 20, 28 pin package. You have to find every pin location for that chip to put the solder paste down. That is the center of the pad most of the time. Will that program do that and does it work with Eagle? Looks like a good program but since the Eagle is paid version we need to use it. Derek www.hightechsystemsllc.com
On 9/20/06, Leon Heller <leon.heller@...> wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:27 AM > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. > > > >I just went to the Cadsoft website under ulp I still don't see the > > file with the name smd-coordinate.ulp. You are probably right there is > > better way to do it. If I ever find this ulp I will give it to Steve > > to try. At the time that we did it there was nothing we found that was > > available. You need 2 different reference points the center of the > > part for pick and place and the center of each pad for solder paste. > > One axis sorting does not give you the optimal g-code with the fewest > > moves. Pads right next to the other pad will be skipped and come back > > to latter. An intelligent sort that can handle 2 axises at the same > > time is what is needed. > > The Pulsonix software I use can output a pick and place file, here is part > of one for one of my boards: > > Ref Part Name Side Placement Centre Rotation > > IC1 16F88 Top (363.22,570.23) 0 > CONN1 2X1 Top (349.92,591.18) 90 > CONN2 3X1 Top (343.61,558.16) 0 > CONN3 Top (343.61,547.37) 0 > IC3 78L05 Top (350.52,585.47) 270 > C1 C1 Top (354.33,556.89) 0 > C2 Top (356.24,539.75) 180 > C3 Top (361.95,539.75) 180 > C4 Top (356.24,542.29) 180 > C5 Top (361.95,542.29) 0 > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller, G1HSM > Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle > leon.heller@... > http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller > > > >
2006-09-21 by Leon Heller
> > On 9/20/06, Leon Heller <leon.heller@...> wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and >> Place. >> >> >> >I just went to the Cadsoft website under ulp I still don't see the >> > file with the name smd-coordinate.ulp. You are probably right there is >> > better way to do it. If I ever find this ulp I will give it to Steve >> > to try. At the time that we did it there was nothing we found that was >> > available. You need 2 different reference points the center of the >> > part for pick and place and the center of each pad for solder paste. >> > One axis sorting does not give you the optimal g-code with the fewest >> > moves. Pads right next to the other pad will be skipped and come back >> > to latter. An intelligent sort that can handle 2 axises at the same >> > time is what is needed. >> >> The Pulsonix software I use can output a pick and place file, here is >> part >> of one for one of my boards: >> >> Ref Part Name Side Placement Centre Rotation >> >> IC1 16F88 Top (363.22,570.23) 0 >> CONN1 2X1 Top (349.92,591.18) 90 >> CONN2 3X1 Top (343.61,558.16) 0 >> CONN3 Top (343.61,547.37) 0 >> IC3 78L05 Top (350.52,585.47) 270 >> C1 C1 Top (354.33,556.89) 0 >> C2 Top (356.24,539.75) 180 >> C3 Top (361.95,539.75) 180 >> C4 Top (356.24,542.29) 180 >> C5 Top (361.95,542.29) 0
----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Barger" <Denvercnc@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. > Sure that looks fine for the center that is easy. Your first chip can > be an 18, 20, 28 pin package. You have to find every pin location for > that chip to put the solder paste down. That is the center of the pad > most of the time. Will that program do that and does it work with > Eagle? Looks like a good program but since the Eagle is paid version > we need to use it. I wish people wouldn't 'top-post'! 8-( I've corrected it. Pulsonix is the PCB software I use, and that output is one of the standard output reports. It's not suitable for solder paste deposition, I think that is done with a stencil by most PCB suppliers as it gives much better control of the thickness and area covered and is much faster. I think a report could be generated that is suitable for CNC placement of solder paste. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2006-09-21 by WT
Hi Derek, Thanks for the very informative message below. I am finishing the CNC retrofit of my China made ZAY7032 Milling Machine and can try the method you did for the Solder Paste dispensing. I will get in touch with you then if and when I need additional info. Again, my thanks. Weedy
----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Barger To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. Hi Weedy, It has been awhile since we have done this so if I get some details wrong I will correct them latter. The solder paste is easier than than the pick and place. We got some supplies from a manufacturer. The needles and the O ring syringe cap with black hose. CNCed the bracket to hold the solder paste syringe. The controls are relatively simple a microprocessor or lots of timers are need to control the solder paste and Pick a place. We used a portable air tank the type that you air up tires with that full you can run quite a few boards before refilling. Less noise in the basement. The air goes through a pressure regulator that is set to the recommend pressure for the solder paste being used. I believe we set this to about 10psi for this particular type. Next is a air solenoid that is controlled by the microprocessor. At the right time the Mach2 sends a signal from the DenverCNC controller to the microprocessor to fire the solenoid. The micro controls the timing in how long the air solenoid is on. You can hear the second air solenoid release the pressure after the first is closed. Mach2 will wait until the solder has been dispensed then move to the next g-coded pad. If the pad is very large it will double or triple shoot the pad for the proper amount of solder. By the way Steve was able to make a program that did most of the work locating the pad location from the Eagle file. There was some hand editing that still had to be done. Eagle doesn't do a very good job in the order it makes the pads. That is why it does a lot of rapids to other pads. If we had spent more time we could have optimized the code. The pick and place is more challenging. A vacuum and pressure is needed this required quite a few solenoids, vacuum pump and the portable air tank plus a 4th axis to position the surface mount parts. We made a tube and stepper bracket. The tube mounts to the stepper directly at the bottom the air/vacuum line is mounted the needle goes on the end. The stepper is used to orient the part to the board. It also functions in the centering of the part. The vacuum of course is used to is used to pick up the part then the air pressure from the tank is regulated to a few psi. This is pulsed at a milli second to get rid of the vacuum and push the part off of the needle. Miss alignment was not as big a problem as it was thought it would be. You do have to be careful moving the board to the hotplate some of the chip got bumped out of place. The solder paste will pull them back in to position if they are not out by very much. You can see the solder turn from a dull gray to a shiny silver when it melts. A lot of the parts where made from surplus. The vacuum pump was something we had laying around. Very noisy. Solenoids were surplus. Brackets and adapter were machined by us. Micro was an Atmel for some of the project. Mach2 was used to run the g-code. A macro in Mach 2 was made to signal the Atmel. Overall it was a very sucessfull project. It is still used today for other prototype boards. You can contact me anytime by email. Thanks, Derek On 9/20/06, WT <pharmapack@...> wrote: > Hi, Derek. > > Nice solder paste and pick & place machine. Very interesting. > > Can I ask you to provide additional info and pictures of the solder paste machine? In particular, how the solder paste mechanism works. Also, details on what was used for the solder paste dispensing (needle, pump, motor, driver, software and timing control, etc.)? > > I intend to use it to make a DIY paste (glue actually) dispensing in a folding and gluing machine for making boxes. Can I communicate with you in private for additional info? > > Thanks in advance. > > Weedy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Derek Barger > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:13 AM > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] SolderPaste dispenser and Pick and Place. > > > I thought some might be interested to see a couple of video of a > homemade solder paste machine and Pick and place. > These were done on a Taig with DenverCNC controller using Mach2 and my > modular work holding system. > Steve and I did this along time ago but just recently got the video up > on Steve's site. > > http://www.ciciora.com/surface_mount.html > http://www.ciciora.com/picknplace.html > > There is also a hotplate video melting the surface mount after the > pick and place was done. > > Derek B. > www.hightechsystemsllc.com > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-09-21 by Derryck Croker
On 21 Sep 2006, at 09:37, Leon Heller wrote: > I wish people wouldn't 'top-post'! 8-( I've corrected it. Um, so how about trimming the bits of the message that you're not addressing in your reply? I agree that top-posting is wrong, but when one is then faced with having to scroll through a load of irrelevant text to find the reply, especially when it says "me too"... I know that the usual reason given is that the whole context can be seen, but isn't that what archives are for?? -- Cheers Derryck
2006-09-21 by derekhawkins
>I just went to the Cadsoft website under ulp I still don't see the >file with the name smd-coordinate.ulp. It comes with the product (ULP folder), it's in at least versions 4.09 - 4.16. Just choose File/Run then choose it. Should give you X/Y coordinates of the centers of all SMD pads on top (.smt file) and bottom (.smb file) layers. >An intelligent sort that can handle 2 axises at the same >time is what is needed. I know, my Excellon to G-code converter has such a sort. Wrote it myself. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Barger" <Denvercnc@...> wrote: >
2006-09-22 by sciciora
<snip> > I thought smd-coordinate.ulp gave you this on a silver platter? This seems to give you X and Y coords, but does not tell you the pad size. We needed the pad size info to determine how much solder paste to put on each pad. But this wasn't the tricky part; the pick and place was a lot harder. > > >Eagle doesn't do a very good job in > >the order it makes the pads. > > Sort the .smt and .smb output files on one axis. Not always faster! :-) I've tried all sorts of things, and having our code report distance traveled. Even then, we found that while one sort may have less distance traveled, it might actually take longer to do on the mill than a different sort with a longer distance traveled. If you Google "Traveling Salesman problem" you will most likely get overwhelmed with academic studies... Even simple algorithms such as "the next pad is the one closest to the current pad" are not always the best. If I were to spend more time on this, I think I would have my program try several different algorithms, starting at random pads on the board, and pick the one with the shortest distance traveled. More of a Monty Carlo (yea, I know it's miss-spelled) type approach. But I probably won't, because too many interesting projects, not enough time... Over-all, this was a very fun project that we threw together in less time than some people spent arguing over which is the best way to do such a thing. And it actually came in handy when we had a crash project developing the battery management system for the Lithium Ion powered (www.a123systems.com) world's fastest electric motorcycle (some videos on my web site as well). Due to the extreme time constraints, we didn't know all the component values until it was too close to race day to have a contract manufacture assemble the boards for us. While the current implementation is not a heck of a lot faster than assembling by hand, it kept us from going crazy putting on the over 100+ surface mount components on approximately 40 boards we assembled. From my experience, if you are going to build 10+ of a board, and have the time, it makes sense to have a contract manufacture do the assembly for you. They can have stencils made up, have all the neat screen printing equipment, faster pick and place, better regulated IR reflow ovens, etc. But for prototyping just a few boards, or extremely tight deadlines, the DIY approach can have some merit. I expect that in the future, I'll use the CNC Solder paste dispensing on boards with 100+ components (less than that, it will be faster by hand). As for the pick and place, well, it takes a fair amount of effort to setup. For just one or two prototype boards, it is usually easier to stuff by hand. Especially if you build a section, test it, debug it, move on to the next section. If I have to make between 5 and 10, I'll probably take the time to set up the pick and place. Any more than 10, I'll most likely contract it out. I guess the biggest thing I learned from this project is that surface mount is not as scary as I first thought. I wish I would have just tried it a lot sooner. You really don't need fancy equipment, even like the stuff we built. A good pair of tweezers, and if you are over 35, you may need something like "opto-visors" to help inspect your work. Well, back to the day job, which is the main reason why I didn't post about this sooner, - Steven Ciciora <snip>