Homebrew PCBs

Gents,

I just put in my file folder the first board I've made since 1976 when
I was 16. Then I used an etch pen and just hand drew out the board
layout. The circuit worked. 

So last night I made a board for my electric truck. I used all of the
tips that I could remember. 

Printed out Pedro's guide. 

Cleaned the copper with Tarn-x. Smells like acid. Did not use any
Scotchbrite. 

Preheated the pcb with a heatgun. 

Used Model Aviation magazine for the carrier. 

Used a teflon coated clothes iron to press it down. 

Warmed the FeCl3 by placing the FeCl3 container in another container
of warm water. 

As it turns out the transfer paper was pressed down too much as the
traces swelled a bit any place there was a 90 degree corner. But the
gaps were still good. This board will pass up to around 336vdc. So the
spacing was important. I know not all of these are optimum methods,
but it worked very well.

It made my first board in 30 years come out great. So I will be making
something like 5 more for other fellow electric vehicle owners.

Thanks for all of the tips!!!

Mike

Mike,

Hey! It's good to run into you over here. (I'm Jim the S-10EV 
owner.) 

Glad to see your TT experience worked out.  It really does seem to 
depend on a number of variables (board preparation, paper, toner, 
time and temperature.) It looks like you nailed them all. Good for 
you.

BTW, I'll have to order one of those fuse boards from you, too.

Jim
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips" 
<mikep_95133@...> wrote:
>
> Gents,
> 
> I just put in my file folder the first board I've made since 1976 
when
> I was 16. Then I used an etch pen and just hand drew out the board
> layout. The circuit worked. 
> 
> So last night I made a board for my electric truck. I used all of 
the
> tips that I could remember. 
> 
> Printed out Pedro's guide. 
> 
> Cleaned the copper with Tarn-x. Smells like acid. Did not use any
> Scotchbrite. 
> 
> Preheated the pcb with a heatgun. 
> 
> Used Model Aviation magazine for the carrier. 
> 
> Used a teflon coated clothes iron to press it down. 
> 
> Warmed the FeCl3 by placing the FeCl3 container in another 
container
> of warm water. 
> 
> As it turns out the transfer paper was pressed down too much as the
> traces swelled a bit any place there was a 90 degree corner. But 
the
> gaps were still good. This board will pass up to around 336vdc. So 
the
> spacing was important. I know not all of these are optimum methods,
> but it worked very well.
> 
> It made my first board in 30 years come out great. So I will be 
making

> something like 5 more for other fellow electric vehicle owners.
> 
> Thanks for all of the tips!!!
> 
> Mike
>

I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It said it
would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?

Mike





--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
<mikep_95133@...> wrote:

>
> Gents,
> 
> I just put in my file folder the first board I've made since 1976 when
> I was 16. Then I used an etch pen and just hand drew out the board
> layout. The circuit worked. 
> 
> So last night I made a board for my electric truck. I used all of the
> tips that I could remember. 
> 
> Printed out Pedro's guide. 
> 
> Cleaned the copper with Tarn-x. Smells like acid. Did not use any
> Scotchbrite. 
> 
> Preheated the pcb with a heatgun. 
> 
> Used Model Aviation magazine for the carrier. 
> 
> Used a teflon coated clothes iron to press it down. 
> 
> Warmed the FeCl3 by placing the FeCl3 container in another container
> of warm water. 
> 
> As it turns out the transfer paper was pressed down too much as the
> traces swelled a bit any place there was a 90 degree corner. But the
> gaps were still good. This board will pass up to around 336vdc. So the
> spacing was important. I know not all of these are optimum methods,
> but it worked very well.
> 
> It made my first board in 30 years come out great. So I will be making
> something like 5 more for other fellow electric vehicle owners.
> 
> Thanks for all of the tips!!!
> 
> Mike
>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:57 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Third board in 30 years.


>I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It said it
> would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?

What's the folder?

Leon

There was no description. There needs to be enough of a description so
that someone coming across the file without reading the related
messages will know why it is there.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, "Mike Phillips"
<mikep_95133@...> wrote:

>
> I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It said it
> would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?
> 
> Mike
> 
>

There's a description now.

Mike



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> There was no description. There needs to be enough of a description so
> that someone coming across the file without reading the related
> messages will know why it is there.
> 
> Steve Greenfield
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
> <mikep_95133@> wrote:
> >
> > I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It said it
> > would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> >
>

I wasn't very clear. I meant a description that says the method of
etching: Toner Transfer, photoetching, screen print, scratch 'n etch,
etc. and maybe some other important detail like thickness of traces or
if you were able to run traces between IC pins.

Thanks,
Steve Greenfield
owner Homebrew_PCBs

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
<mikep_95133@...> wrote:
>
> There's a description now.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@> wrote:
> >
> > There was no description. There needs to be enough of a description so
> > that someone coming across the file without reading the related
> > messages will know why it is there.
> > 
> > Steve Greenfield
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
> > <mikep_95133@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It
said it

> > > would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

No offense Steve, but there are no rules posted in this group for
jumping thru hoops just to post a pic in my own folder. AND most of
the pics posted in others folders don't have the kind of descriptions
you are hammering me with. What's the deal? 

Here is a pic on my website showing my latest board. It's a
programming board for the 68hc711k4 in a 68 pin plcc form factor.

http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/programmer.jpg

Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> I wasn't very clear. I meant a description that says the method of
> etching: Toner Transfer, photoetching, screen print, scratch 'n etch,
> etc. and maybe some other important detail like thickness of traces or
> if you were able to run traces between IC pins.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve Greenfield
> owner Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
> <mikep_95133@> wrote:
> >
> > There's a description now.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There was no description. There needs to be enough of a
description so

> > > that someone coming across the file without reading the related
> > > messages will know why it is there.
> > > 
> > > Steve Greenfield
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
> > > <mikep_95133@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It
> said it
> > > > would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?
> > > > 
> > > > Mike
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Leon,

It was suppose to arrive in the photos section under "mikep_95133's
PCB's". But I'm not making the grade apparently. 

Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...>
wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:57 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Third board in 30 years.
> 
> 
> >I tried to upload a pic of my 3rd board into photos folder. It said it
> > would have to be approved. It never arrived. What's the problem?
> 
> What's the folder?
> 
> Leon
>

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:51:52 +0100, Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>  
wrote:

> No offense Steve, but there are no rules posted in this group for
> jumping thru hoops just to post a pic in my own folder. AND most of
> the pics posted in others folders don't have the kind of descriptions
> you are hammering me with. What's the deal?
> Here is a pic on my website showing my latest board. It's a
> programming board for the 68hc711k4 in a 68 pin plcc form factor.
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/programmer.jpg
> Mike


It seems to me Steve no longer wants the storage space filled up with  
stuff since this space is limited and he has lotsa work clearing it out.
We would very much like to look at your picture, but let's face it, it has  
not much long term value and someone would have to delete it sometime. It  
seems better for such pictures that you want to show, but have no need to  
store as reference, to put them on an outside server, such as  
<www.tinypics.com> and just give the URL.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:51:52 +0100, Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > No offense Steve, but there are no rules posted in this group for
> > jumping thru hoops just to post a pic in my own folder. AND most of
> > the pics posted in others folders don't have the kind of descriptions
> > you are hammering me with. What's the deal?
> > Here is a pic on my website showing my latest board. It's a
> > programming board for the 68hc711k4 in a 68 pin plcc form factor.
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/programmer.jpg
> > Mike
> 
> 
> It seems to me Steve no longer wants the storage space filled up with  
> stuff since this space is limited and he has lotsa work clearing it out.
> We would very much like to look at your picture, but let's face it,
it has  
> not much long term value and someone would have to delete it
sometime. It  
> seems better for such pictures that you want to show, but have no
need to  
> store as reference, to put them on an outside server, such as  
> <www.tinypics.com> and just give the URL.

Mike is right, I haven't previously posted clear guidelines for
posting photos and files in the message that new members receive. I
did consider it a bit of a common sense thing, if you post something
that takes up space in the group site then you should have a
description so someone coming across it in the future without context
will know why it is there.

It is a well done board, BTW.

I have warned everyone on the list in the past that I will start
deleting files and photos without sufficient description. I've not set
a specific time frame on this, but at my whim I may decide to start
deleting files that don't have a clear reason for being on the list.
Not to be mean to anyone, but to keep the list useful for it's
intended purpose. Fortunately many are self-explanatory, for instance
the folder name may tell why it's there, or the file name itself. I'd
rather have something descriptive in the description box, too, but I'm
not going to gut the files and photos out of spite.

Stefan is correct, too. I am listowner or moderator of over 20 lists,
only a few with active co-moderators. And I start a new job on Monday,
so even less time to manage the lists.

And Mike, keep in mind that from your side I'm making you jump through
hoops to post your picture, you are making me jump through hoops just
to put a description to explain why someone in the future might find
it on this list.

Steve Greenfield

1) I'm not a new member. 

2) Pick on everyone equally and you won't hear anything more from me.

3) Put your "delete warning", rules, etc on the front page. If you
want efficiency on your lists than leave the rules up where they can
be seen every time we log in or a newbie joins. Just common sense. 

Expectations without communication are a setup for failure.

Mike



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
> <stefan_trethan@> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:51:52 +0100, Mike Phillips <mikep_95133@>  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > No offense Steve, but there are no rules posted in this group for
> > > jumping thru hoops just to post a pic in my own folder. AND most of
> > > the pics posted in others folders don't have the kind of
descriptions
> > > you are hammering me with. What's the deal?
> > > Here is a pic on my website showing my latest board. It's a
> > > programming board for the 68hc711k4 in a 68 pin plcc form factor.
> > > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/programmer.jpg
> > > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > It seems to me Steve no longer wants the storage space filled up
with  
> > stuff since this space is limited and he has lotsa work clearing
it out.

> > We would very much like to look at your picture, but let's face it,
> it has  
> > not much long term value and someone would have to delete it
> sometime. It  
> > seems better for such pictures that you want to show, but have no
> need to  
> > store as reference, to put them on an outside server, such as  
> > <www.tinypics.com> and just give the URL.
> 
> Mike is right, I haven't previously posted clear guidelines for
> posting photos and files in the message that new members receive. I
> did consider it a bit of a common sense thing, if you post something
> that takes up space in the group site then you should have a
> description so someone coming across it in the future without context
> will know why it is there.
> 
> It is a well done board, BTW.
> 
> I have warned everyone on the list in the past that I will start
> deleting files and photos without sufficient description. I've not set
> a specific time frame on this, but at my whim I may decide to start
> deleting files that don't have a clear reason for being on the list.
> Not to be mean to anyone, but to keep the list useful for it's
> intended purpose. Fortunately many are self-explanatory, for instance
> the folder name may tell why it's there, or the file name itself. I'd
> rather have something descriptive in the description box, too, but I'm
> not going to gut the files and photos out of spite.
> 
> Stefan is correct, too. I am listowner or moderator of over 20 lists,
> only a few with active co-moderators. And I start a new job on Monday,
> so even less time to manage the lists.
> 
> And Mike, keep in mind that from your side I'm making you jump through
> hoops to post your picture, you are making me jump through hoops just
> to put a description to explain why someone in the future might find
> it on this list.
> 
> Steve Greenfield
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Phillips"
<mikep_95133@...> wrote:
>
> 1) I'm not a new member. 

Then you've been here for the discussions of space and lack of
descriptions and my warnings of deleting files and photos for lack of
sufficient description.

> 2) Pick on everyone equally and you won't hear anything more from me.

Life's not fair, get over it. How is it exactly you propose I go back
in time and retroactively "fix" this? Where do I find the time to go
through all the Photos and Files and then either hassle each person to
add a better description, or look up old messages and figure out what
to add myself?

> 3) Put your "delete warning", rules, etc on the front page. If you
> want efficiency on your lists than leave the rules up where they can
> be seen every time we log in or a newbie joins. Just common sense. 

The Monthly.txt gets sent to everyone when they join, and of course it
gets sent here monthly. There is some common sense involved here as
well. Why post a picture without a description as to why it is on this
list, when it will potentially be there for the life of the list?

> Expectations without communication are a setup for failure.

It's in the Monthly.txt now, as a result of these discussions. I did
explain to you that you needed a better description of why the file
was on Homebrew_PCBs, the description on your 2nd try was just a
shortened version of the first description that described what it was,
not why it was here on this list.

So now you know, what is it exactly that you expect me to do? Since I
can't admin the list retroactively, then I can never change any
policy, since you might feel unfairly restricted?

Steve Greenfield