Homebrew PCBs

While not strictly a "PCB" topic, it does relate to something used for
making PCBs.  I was thinking (dangerous, you know) about making a
front panel for another project.  Given that I desire "nice" artwork,
and have access to a laser printer, I was wondering about using laser
transfer methods (print to laser transfer "paper", iron on front
panel) to make a nicely designed front panel.

A couple of questions:
1)  How well do the laser transfer methods work?  I'm assuming that
one takes the transfer and makes it work on a PC board with an iron
(or some heat source with pressure).
2)  If I can get a color laser printer, would I get color transfered
as well?
3)  Quality?  Would it look "reasonable" for the task?
4)  Durability?  I was thinking of coating the whole thing with some
clear spray to make it last.
5)  Am I making any sense?  Is this idea a whole waste of time and I
should look to something else?

It seems to me that the transfer method would make for the ability to
have nice artwork/legends on my finished "box".  While I am not going
to dunk the "box" in some resist, the transfer method should be
similar, thus the questions.

Thanks for any feedback.

Herby,

The only potential flaw I see with that process is the substrate you 
will transfer to. It must be able to tolerate the heat during the 
transfer process.  Color lasers work fine for toner transfer, I have 
done it several times here for PCBs and other things.  For 
durability, you will need to spray a clear coat on as you were 
thinking about.  Sorry, can't recommend anything in particular there 
but do some testing first.  I suspect some of the clears might 
disolve the toner and cause it to bleed.  Probably one of the most 
promising is a water based polyurethane - very durable and as water 
is it's solvent, shouldn't cause any bleeding etc.

I will be doing some experiments this weekend for something similar, 
but the substrate I have in mind is very questionable so I am not 
expecting things to go good for me.

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "herby1620" <herby1620@...> 
wrote:
>
> While not strictly a "PCB" topic, it does relate to something used 
for
> making PCBs.  I was thinking (dangerous, you know) about making a
> front panel for another project.  Given that I desire "nice" 
artwork,
> and have access to a laser printer, I was wondering about using 
laser
> transfer methods (print to laser transfer "paper", iron on front
> panel) to make a nicely designed front panel.
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 1)  How well do the laser transfer methods work?  I'm assuming that
> one takes the transfer and makes it work on a PC board with an iron
> (or some heat source with pressure).
> 2)  If I can get a color laser printer, would I get color 
transfered
> as well?
> 3)  Quality?  Would it look "reasonable" for the task?
> 4)  Durability?  I was thinking of coating the whole thing with 
some
> clear spray to make it last.
> 5)  Am I making any sense?  Is this idea a whole waste of time and 
I
> should look to something else?
> 
> It seems to me that the transfer method would make for the ability 
to
> have nice artwork/legends on my finished "box".  While I am not 
going

> to dunk the "box" in some resist, the transfer method should be
> similar, thus the questions.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.
>

I use a simple method for front panels. Ink Jet transparencies, 
printed on reverse and glued on panel. The glue is important because 
it can attack the ink.
The most durable method is to make a sandwitch: the base material (box 
wall), printed film or even paper and a sheet of acrylic or plexiglass 
bolted to base material.


Adrian



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "herby1620" <herby1620@...> 
wrote:
>
> While not strictly a "PCB" topic, it does relate to something used 
for
> making PCBs.  I was thinking (dangerous, you know) about making a
> front panel for another project.  Given that I desire "nice" 
artwork,
> and have access to a laser printer, I was wondering about using 
laser
> transfer methods (print to laser transfer "paper", iron on front
> panel) to make a nicely designed front panel.
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 1)  How well do the laser transfer methods work?  I'm assuming that
> one takes the transfer and makes it work on a PC board with an iron
> (or some heat source with pressure).
> 2)  If I can get a color laser printer, would I get color transfered
> as well?
> 3)  Quality?  Would it look "reasonable" for the task?
> 4)  Durability?  I was thinking of coating the whole thing with some
> clear spray to make it last.
> 5)  Am I making any sense?  Is this idea a whole waste of time and I
> should look to something else?
> 
> It seems to me that the transfer method would make for the ability 
to
> have nice artwork/legends on my finished "box".  While I am not 
going

> to dunk the "box" in some resist, the transfer method should be
> similar, thus the questions.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.
>

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:28:46 +0200, herby1620 <herby1620@...> wrote:

> A couple of questions:
> 1)  How well do the laser transfer methods work?  I'm assuming that
> one takes the transfer and makes it work on a PC board with an iron
> (or some heat source with pressure).
> 2)  If I can get a color laser printer, would I get color transfered
> as well?
> 3)  Quality?  Would it look "reasonable" for the task?
> 4)  Durability?  I was thinking of coating the whole thing with some
> clear spray to make it last.
> 5)  Am I making any sense?  Is this idea a whole waste of time and I
> should look to something else?


I made a very small aluminum plate once with my initials on it (to replace  
the company plaque on a meter case i used for something else) to test the  
viability of TT for front panels.
It worked just like on PCB.

I also made a house-number and name sign for putting on the front gate, to  
make it easier for the various delivery services. I used PCB material for  
that, but it was recently destroied by a not-so-skilled driver and i will  
have to make a new one. I plan to try inkjet printing on formica sheet  
this time.


So as long as your material is compatible to the heat needed for  
transfers, and flat if you plan to use a fuser/laminator, it will probably  
work just fine. You should use silicone paper so that you get a nice shiny  
surface with no paper residue. A laquer coat is a very good idea. I used  
water based acrylic for the house sign and it did well outside, well,  
before it was broken.

There is also something called "water slide paper" that is basically toner  
transfer with an intermediate step that allows application to a surface  
which is not heat resistant.

ST

> 
> There is also something called "water slide paper" that is basically 
> toner transfer with an intermediate step that allows application to a 
> surface which is not heat resistant.
> 
> ST
>

This, http://www.supercaldecals.com is water slide paper for use with
INKJET printer. Others exist for laser printers

I was thinking along the same lines as the original poster, color toner 
transfer, but it  looks like the "FREE" QMS magiccolor 2 printer I got 
a couple of weeks ago has "issues" with picking up the glossy staples 
printer paper.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:10:21 +0200, scratch_6057 <dml.empsrch@...>  
wrote:

>
> I was thinking along the same lines as the original poster, color toner
> transfer, but it  looks like the "FREE" QMS magiccolor 2 printer I got
> a couple of weeks ago has "issues" with picking up the glossy staples
> printer paper.


Maybe just that roller surface having a problem.
You could always try and stick some other paper to the leading edge, if it  
takes that?

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:10:21 +0200, scratch_6057 <dml.empsrch@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I was thinking along the same lines as the original poster, color 
toner
> > transfer, but it  looks like the "FREE" QMS magiccolor 2 printer 
I got
> > a couple of weeks ago has "issues" with picking up the glossy 
staples
> > printer paper.
> 
> 
> Maybe just that roller surface having a problem.
> You could always try and stick some other paper to the leading 
edge, if it  
> takes that?
> 
> ST
>


The printer will take standard 20lb paper, & I had thought about
using a strip  of "Avery" full sheet label on the leading edge, 
or possably a piece of "3M" removable painters masking tape. If that 
dosen't do then I'll try with a piece of the "staples" paper taped to
a full sheet of 20lb. 

I talked to a guy the other day who said he has had success
rejuvenating  printer pickup rollers (and other rubber items
 of various types) by applying mineral oil in multiple coats.
According to him the rubber absorbs the oil and comes back
to "life". Anyone else ever hear of this trick? I know there are
other "roller rejuvenating fluids" on the market, any success stories?

The printer was an unexpected freebie so it is really
not at the top of the priority list right now, I'm sure you know
about those kind of things.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "scratch_6057" <dml.empsrch@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Laser Transfers


> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
> <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:10:21 +0200, scratch_6057 <dml.empsrch@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I was thinking along the same lines as the original poster, color
> toner
>> > transfer, but it  looks like the "FREE" QMS magiccolor 2 printer
> I got
>> > a couple of weeks ago has "issues" with picking up the glossy
> staples
>> > printer paper.
>>
>>
>> Maybe just that roller surface having a problem.
>> You could always try and stick some other paper to the leading
> edge, if it
>> takes that?
>>
>> ST
>>
>
>
> The printer will take standard 20lb paper, & I had thought about
> using a strip  of "Avery" full sheet label on the leading edge,
> or possably a piece of "3M" removable painters masking tape. If that
> dosen't do then I'll try with a piece of the "staples" paper taped to
> a full sheet of 20lb.
>
> I talked to a guy the other day who said he has had success
> rejuvenating  printer pickup rollers (and other rubber items
> of various types) by applying mineral oil in multiple coats.
> According to him the rubber absorbs the oil and comes back
> to "life". Anyone else ever hear of this trick? I know there are
> other "roller rejuvenating fluids" on the market, any success stories?
>
> The printer was an unexpected freebie so it is really
> not at the top of the priority list right now, I'm sure you know
> about those kind of things.

I'd try roughening the roller with some emery paper.

I usually cut a piece of special paper like that roughly to size and stick 
it to a standard A4 sheet. Apart from it feeding properly it saves money.

Leon

Don't roughen the roller just yet... apply some oil of wintergreen  
first and
see how that goes.
Gus


On 2006-Aug 09, at 07:43hrs AM, Leon Heller wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "scratch_6057" <dml.empsrch@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Laser Transfers

 > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
 > <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
 >>
 >> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:10:21 +0200, scratch_6057 <dml.empsrch@...>
 >> wrote:
 >>
 >> >
 >> > I was thinking along the same lines as the original poster, color
 > toner
 >> > transfer, but it looks like the "FREE" QMS magiccolor 2 printer
 > I got
 >> > a couple of weeks ago has "issues" with picking up the glossy
 > staples
 >> > printer paper.
 >>
 >>
 >> Maybe just that roller surface having a problem.
 >> You could always try and stick some other paper to the leading
 > edge, if it
 >> takes that?
 >>
 >> ST
 >>
 >
 >
 > The printer will take standard 20lb paper, & I had thought about
 > using a strip of "Avery" full sheet label on the leading edge,
 > or possably a piece of "3M" removable painters masking tape. If that
 > dosen't do then I'll try with a piece of the "staples" paper taped to
 > a full sheet of 20lb.
 >
 > I talked to a guy the other day who said he has had success
 > rejuvenating printer pickup rollers (and other rubber items
 > of various types) by applying mineral oil in multiple coats.
 > According to him the rubber absorbs the oil and comes back
 > to "life". Anyone else ever hear of this trick? I know there are
 > other "roller rejuvenating fluids" on the market, any success  
stories?
 >
 > The printer was an unexpected freebie so it is really
 > not at the top of the priority list right now, I'm sure you know
 > about those kind of things.

I'd try roughening the roller with some emery paper.

I usually cut a piece of special paper like that roughly to size and  
stick
it to a standard A4 sheet. Apart from it feeding properly it saves  
money.

Leon




Gus S Calabrese
Denver, CO
720 222 1309     303 908 7716 cell
Please include and do not limit yourself to "spam2006". I allow  
everything with  "spam2006"  in the subject or text to pass my spam  
filters.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:13:33 +0200, Gus S Calabrese <gsc@...>  
wrote:

> oil of wintergreen


Oleum Gaultheriae, Oil of Wintergreen. True Oil of Wintergreen; composed  
of about 96 per cent of methyl salicylate


Methyl salicylate (chemical formula C6H4(HO)COOCH3; also known as  
salicylic acid methyl ester, oil of wintergreen, betula oil, methyl ester)  
is a natural product of many species of plants. Some of the plants  
producing it are called wintergreens, hence the common name.

ST

I believe this was the thread where someone was asking about using 
color laser printers for toner transfer to make panel fronts and 
such.  I just did a quick test of a color transfer and it worked just 
fine as I suspected.  The colors didn't change and the transfer 
percentage was about the same with just plain black - some missing 
spots.  This could have been due to the very quick and crude test as 
well as the paper I was using.

If and when I get to trying out a clear coat, I will report back if 
something works or doesn't work.

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "lcdpublishing" 
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> I believe this was the thread where someone was asking about using 
> color laser printers for toner transfer to make panel fronts and 
> such.  I just did a quick test of a color transfer and it worked 
just 
> fine as I suspected.  The colors didn't change and the transfer 
> percentage was about the same with just plain black - some missing 
> spots.  This could have been due to the very quick and crude test as 
> well as the paper I was using.
> 
> If and when I get to trying out a clear coat, I will report back if 
> something works or doesn't work.
> 
> Chris
>

Hi
I've been an observer in this group for a few months - finally there 
is something I can contribute.

To use TT to make pront panels and such, try this.  Get some clear 
plastic contact adhesive sheet (the kind sold by newsagents for 
covering books).  Print a full-size normal (nor reversed) image of 
your front panel on a white background using a laser printer (black & 
white, or color). Cover the image with the clear contact sheet, and 
rub with the back of a spoon or something to ensure good adhesion.  
Immerse in cold clean water (no detergents) and remove the paper by 
rubbing with your finger or a soft brush.  Be sure to get all of the 
paper residue - the toner will remain stuck to the clear contact 
sheet.  Allow the sheet to dry, then apply directly to the metal 
panel - or anything else that is flat.  All done - your image, and a 
protective coating all in one operation.

Good luck

Don Beardmore

--- beardmoredon <donbeardmore@...> wrote:
...
> To use TT to make pront panels and such, try this.  Get some clear 
> plastic contact adhesive sheet (the kind sold by newsagents for 
> covering books).  
...

some better description for those not in AU ?


__________________________________________________
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On 13/08/06, Herbert E. Plett <cachureos@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --- beardmoredon <donbeardmore@...> wrote:
>  ...
>  > To use TT to make pront panels and such, try this.  Get some clear
>  > plastic contact adhesive sheet (the kind sold by newsagents for
>  > covering books).
>  ...
>
>  some better description for those not in AU ?

Well I understood I'm Uk, but then we had BluePeter and lots of sticky
backed plastic.

Maybe its also called ''coverfilm''

Its a film, about 0.75mm thick, comes in a metre wide roll in various
colours including clear, is adhesive coated on one side with a backing
paper, you cut to size, peel off the backing, and apply.

Often used for protecting the outer surface of books, and in much
bigger rools for houshold decoration, including covering internal
house doors to change design to match new decor.

Biggest brandname I think in uk was ''fablon''




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-- 

Lez